Ussari Space Program! A highly [unstable] modded 64K career from behind the iron kertain!

[Geschosskopf]

22 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

Vectors make ALL the difference. It's a shame dtobi's gimbal mod is no longer around, either.

I have heard this mod mentioned but never used it and don't know what it did.

I personally find gimbal as implemented in KSP to be counterproductive on everything except except dogfighting airplanes the odd lifter I decided to build without any fins, Vernors, or sufficient SAS.  For everything else, the constant twitching of the engines not only wastes fuel, it can introduce wobble, so I always turn it off and wish that was the default setting.

Now, if gimbal acted to keep the engine at a fixed angle so it could be used as a trimming mechanism, then it would be a nice safety feature for multi-engined aircraft.  And if it would keep the thrust line pointing at the CoM as that moved due to fuel consumption and staging, it would be VERY nice for asymmetrical lifters.  Did this mod do either of those things?

[CatastrophicFailure]

2 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

Did this mod do either of those things?

Exactly. Dtobi's was built into his shuttle engines, then Sarbian did a MechJeb module that did just that, it kept the engines pointed at the COM. Great for odd lifters, engine failures, etc. The originals were both lost to old versions, but I just discovered Sarbian is working on a new one, you may be interested. 

Always interesting how different minds work. I never use Vernors or RCS for primary control, and fins only when I absolutely have to (I'm hoping I can eliminate them here for easier booster recovery). I have a slider to vary engine gimbal rate in both my active games (1.0.5 & 1.1.3) that damps out some of that wobbliness. I thought it was stock but now I'm thinking it could be part of Stock Bug Fixes too.

[Geschosskopf]

7 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

Always interesting how different minds work. I never use Vernors or RCS for primary control, and fins only when I absolutely have to (I'm hoping I can eliminate them here for easier booster recovery). I have a slider to vary engine gimbal rate in both my active games (1.0.5 & 1.1.3) that damps out some of that wobbliness. I thought it was stock but now I'm thinking it could be part of Stock Bug Fixes too.

Hehehe, I make long, tall rockets that are either SSTOs or nearly so with SRBs to start with.  Gimbal can wreck these with wobbles so I steer them with small tail feathers during the gravity turn.  Normally, the Vernors are only used to orient the rocket for the circularization burn because it's still its full length at that point, although sometimes they work during the ascent if payload has a mondo fairing.

Because the lifter stage ends up in LKO, it's easy to recover at leisure without any frantic, time-sensitive switching between parts of the rocket.  But after doing that a few times, I quit because I don't really need the money and would rather get on with the payload's mission than muck around landing boosters.  So up until 1.1, I just blew the lifters up with TAC Self-Destruct because explosions are cool.  Because that still doesn't work in 1.1.3, nowadays I just terminate them once the payload is on the way.

[CatastrophicFailure]

50 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

Hehehe, I make long, tall rockets that are either SSTOs or nearly so with SRBs to start with.  Gimbal can wreck these with wobbles so I steer them with small tail feathers during the gravity turn.  Normally, the Vernors are only used to orient the rocket for the circularization burn because it's still its full length at that point, although sometimes they work during the ascent if payload has a mondo fairing.

Because the lifter stage ends up in LKO, it's easy to recover at leisure without any frantic, time-sensitive switching between parts of the rocket.  But after doing that a few times, I quit because I don't really need the money and would rather get on with the payload's mission than muck around landing boosters.  So up until 1.1, I just blew the lifters up with TAC Self-Destruct because explosions are cool.  Because that still doesn't work in 1.1.3, nowadays I just terminate them once the payload is on the way.

Ah yes, I can see how that might aggravate gimbal twitch. 

On the other bit, have you looked into StageRecovery? Exactly what it says on the tin, you can leave stages sub-orbital and it'll automatically recover & credit them. IF they have parachutes, fuel, etc.

[Torgo]

+1 to Stage Recovery

Recover those boosters, comrades! recover them harder!

[Geschosskopf]

1 hour ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

On the other bit, have you looked nto StageRecovery? Exactly what it says on the tin, you can leave stages sub-orbital and it'll automatically recover & credit them. IF they have parachutes, fuel, etc.

I'd rather just blow them up because gratuitous explosions

 

[GarrisonChisholm]

6 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

Ah yes, I can see how that might aggravate gimbal twitch. 

On the other bit, have you looked into StageRecovery? Exactly what it says on the tin, you can leave stages sub-orbital and it'll automatically recover & credit them. IF they have parachutes, fuel, etc.

I use Stage Recovery, and appreciate that it is just not an automatic "cash in pot" solution, but involves random factors for success.

[CatastrophicFailure]

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Greetings, Comrades! When last we left glorious Urugan-A probe, was safely on course to ground-breaking discoveries at Duna!

Spoiler

 

adf

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But first, Vagabond 5 makes 500m/s correction burn in deep space, and is now on course to encounter Kerbin again in several months. Great effort will no doubt be spent in attempt to recover object that has been to another world! Briefly. Maybe. Data is still highly ambiguous...

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160 days after leaving home, Urugan-A now enter Duna space, just in time to observe incredible eclipse as moon of Ike passes in front of sun!

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Approaching peridune at 65 kilometers, Urugan-A confirms greatest feature of experimental liquid ammonia-fueled nuclear thermal engines: storability!

Liquid ammonia creates very high thrust-to-weight ratio, allowing much more precise burns, even during ejection, while retaining ISP significantly superior to chemical cryogenic propulsion. But by far, biggest advantage is zero boiloff even during several weeks in transit. Using liquid hydrogen as fuel would yield greater efficiency but lower thrust, and ability maintain deep cryogenic temperatures over weeks or months even with active refrigeration remains untested. Liquid methane remains a promising balance between the two, but still requires cryogenic temperatures and would be subject to boiloff. Ammonia experiences no boiloff even after months or years in space, does not require additional mass of cooling equipment, and leaves windows and camera lenses squeaky clean!

 

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Urugan-A continues to send back haunting images of eclipse once stable in initial eccentric 6500x65km orbit at 27 degrees inclination, while still retaining plenty of delta-V for future maneuvers!

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Lit from below by eerie Dunashine, with Ike visible high above.

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But now, real mission begins! Cargo bay is open, and first sub-probe is released! Pathfinder probe will make first entry and landing attempt on distant planet, to study density of heating effects of thin atmosphere so as to calibrate parachutes of primary lander to follow!

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For now, Pathfinder enters hibernation mode after checking systems, while Urugan-A deploys trio of nuclear-powered communication relay satellites!

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Pay no attention to relay satellite temporarily hanging up on rim of cargo bay!

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Relay satellites are fully powered by RTGs and carry significant propellent reserves for ion engine!

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First two relays maneuver into opposed circular 6500km oribts...

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...while third satellites achieves lower 3000-km orbit. Now with both Urugan-A and Vagabond-2 providing long-distance relays to Kerbin, mission relay network is now complete.

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Pathfinder fires simple on-board hydrazine engine, lowering peridune to 15 kilometers for initial landing attempt. Low-gain flight antenna looses contact as expected, and landing proceeds automatically. However, due to minor mathematical error of someone not carrying the 1, propulsion unit remains attached to lander for some time after entering Duna's atmosphere before decoupling.

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Entry then proceeds normally, probe has dropped from 3000m/s entry speed to subsonic by 20km altitude. Parachute automatically deploys at 10km.

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At 600 meters, heat shield is jettisoned and airbags deploy!

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Shortly after, lightweight probe makes successful parachute landing, becoming first object to land on another planet! Airbags automatically deflate and main antenna deploys, reestablishing contact and transmitting first science from surface.

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Sunset on Duna. Pathfinder's micro RTG's will provide power through many nights. However, diminutive probe carries only limited science package, its primary mission to provide data for landing of main payload is complete success, and will follow soon!

 

 

Edited August 15, 2016 by CatastrophicFailure

[Geschosskopf]

33 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

Liquid ammonia creates very high thrust-to-weight ratio, allowing much more precise burns, even during ejection, while retaining ISP significantly superior to chemical cryogenic propulsion

Please explain to capitalist dogs how glorious ammonia propellant works.  According running dog science, ammonia does not burn well nor support combustion without chlorine catalyst.

[CatastrophicFailure]

12 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

Please explain to capitalist dogs how glorious ammonia propellant works.  According running dog science, ammonia does not burn well nor support combustion without chlorine catalyst.

You missed the part about the "nuclear thermal engine." 

You can run pretty much anything as a working fluid in an NTR, even water. Hydrogen is the most common one talked about, being the lightest element it gives you the highest exhaust speed, and therefore, ISP. In both RealFuels and real life tho, hydrogen is a real borscht to store. 

[Geschosskopf]

8 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

You missed the part about the "nuclear thermal engine." 

You can run pretty much anything as a working fluid in an NTR, even water. Hydrogen is the most common one talked about, being the lightest element it gives you the highest exhaust speed, and therefore, ISP. In both RealFuels and real life tho, hydrogen is a real borscht to store. 

Yeah, I missed that.

However, nuclear thermal engines rely not only on mass but on the specific heat of the reaction mass.  Ammonia's is reasonably good (in anhydrous form, it is used as a refrigerant) but not great, and it's also heavy.

[CatastrophicFailure]

1 minute ago, Geschosskopf said:

Yeah, I missed that.

However, nuclear thermal engines rely not only on mass but on the specific heat of the reaction mass.  Ammonia's is reasonably good (in anhydrous form, it is used as a refrigerant) but not great, and it's also heavy.

That's why it only gets um... I think like 500-ish ISP, I'll have to check that, vs 800 some for hydrogen. Which is still better than the 427 on my best hydrolox engine. Plus, each one of those radioactive puppies is putting out around 300kn, TWR in Kerbin orbit with the whole 65-tonne stack was around 1.5, with 5500m/s dV available. And once it got to Duna I still had 2000m/s left with zero boiloff. Oh and did I mention dense? Getting that much dV from hydrogen would have required a much bigger payload, even if it would have been lighter.

 

[Shania_L]

I love the look of the Urugan transfer stage, is very minimalist and tidy, you are really jumping up the tech tree now, NTR, Ions and RTG!

I always considered Ammonia to be the pointless fuel but I think your later versions of RealFuels really upped the boiloff factors. I use Methane in my NTRs, it gets better thrust and ISP than ammonia, and simply putting it in an insulated tank practically eliminates boiloff, although I tend to put on radiators anyway. Hydrogen gets a sizable thrust penalty as well as being bulky, add to that significant boiloff even in insulated tanks and the high ISP and low mass still isnt worth the hassle.

Ofcourse I will findout just how important boiloff is when my own Duna probe arrives ... hopefully still with Methane in its tanks!

[CatastrophicFailure]

On 8/8/2016 at 5:44 PM, Shania_L said:

I love the look of the Urugan transfer stage, is very minimalist and tidy, you are really jumping up the tech tree now, NTR, Ions and RTG!

I always considered Ammonia to be the pointless fuel but I think your later versions of RealFuels really upped the boiloff factors. I use Methane in my NTRs, it gets better thrust and ISP than ammonia, and simply putting it in an insulated tank practically eliminates boiloff, although I tend to put on radiators anyway. Hydrogen gets a sizable thrust penalty as well as being bulky, add to that significant boiloff even in insulated tanks and the high ISP and low mass still isnt worth the hassle.

Ofcourse I will findout just how important boiloff is when my own Duna probe arrives ... hopefully still with Methane in its tanks!

Ack, got a bit sidetracked. Here's the stats on my nukes, fully upgraded:

Methane certainly does show some serious potential. I forgot to send along a couple of cryo tanks to test boiloff on this last mission, I know I can get at least as far as the Mün with mild hydrogen boiloff, but it's certainly a pain to deal with. It certainly won't be going to Moho tho!

[CatastrophicFailure]

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Greetings, Comrades! With communication relays in place and atmospheric analysis complete, Urugan-A can at last proceed with full mission landing on Duna!

Still in eccentric orbit, main bus fires nuclear thermal engine briefly to drop peridune down to 15 kilometers...

 

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Mission lander, encased in protective aeroshell, is then released...

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Lander enters Duna's atmosphere at approximately 3 km/s, generating only mild compression heating. Using offset center of mass and active uplink, aeroshell is able to generate enough lift to fly through atmosphere, minimizing both heating and G-forces by loosing most speed in thin upper atmosphere. Active uplink allows probe to continuously return science even during descent!

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Lander has reached subsonic speed by 21km altitude, and aeoshell drogue chute deploys...

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Drogue has fully deployed by 10km and lander has lost nearly all horizontal speed. At 4km, aeroshell automatically separates and main chutes are deployed. Initial telemetry indicates aeroshell separation is just a bit... anemic.

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At 600m, heat shield is released... and communication is lost, presumably due to placement of descent antenna on heat shield. IIIIIVAAAAAAAN!

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With no active control, probe is left to land on parachutes alone as landing thruster cannot be activated. Thin atmosphere proves to be up to task, however, as probe makes hard but mostly undamaged touchdown....

 

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Mostly, except for is now missing critical solar panel and alignment of remaining panel is less than ideal. But control is successfully reestablished after automated systems deploy mission antenna.

 

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Urugan-A wastes no time in activating primary suite of science instruments, sampling all is to sample on strange red world, only slightly hampered by lackluster power supply from missing solar panel!

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But now, is time to deploy secondary mission element! Urugan-A has brought along world's first mobile rover!

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Dubbed Superiority, rover will shortly be first vehicle ever to drive on surface of other world! Once minor issue with prematurely deployed magnetometer is resolved...

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Superiority sends back first grainy photos! Extra grain, much healthier!

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Once sufficiently wiggled out of tight space and assured that premature instrument deployment happens to everyone, Superiority continues with on-board mission science!

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Powered by still more nuclear material, Superiority fears no night on small, cold world! Here is tidally locked moon of Ike, hanging near-motionless in pale sky!

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Due to nearly 10 minute communication delay, operation of rover relies mostly on cutting edge MechIVAN on-board autopilot. Which is quickly stymied by what are apparently hidden deposits of springs in Dunian soil. Mission Control quickly adapts Urugan-A's ChemCam to keep careful watch for Tiggers...

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Superiority gets eerie feeling it, too, is being watched. Is glorious Ussari Union, of course is being watched!

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With local science exhausted, Superiority now begins long 13-kilometer trek to nearest alternate biome. And due to springy nature of regolith and complete lack of reaction wheels, spends more time in air than on ground. Here, takes time to stop and... smell... rock.

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First sunset on successful mission day! After long, bouncy trek, Superiority arrives at next biome to gloriously discover... is actually same biome. Apparently Urugan-A landed in tiny patch of Midlands in middle of Lowlands. Rover is shut down for time being to allow controllers to recover from motion sickness.

 

[Shania_L]

Impressive! I wonder what else you have packed away in that transfer vehicle ... something for Ike perhaps?

Who is firing off the Batsignal on the surface of Duna?

I have been testing a Mun rover and have also been getting the random springing into the air thing ... controllable now I have reaction controls ... the Mk 1 version had none or RCS so its mission ended a whole 20m from the lander

[RocketSquid]

Where are the cameras from?

[Andem]

You are pushing me Ivan... One more mistake like this and you may find yourself a nice cushy job in kiberian salt mine. 

[CatastrophicFailure]

1 hour ago, RocketSquid said:

Where are the cameras from?

HullCamVDS.

2 hours ago, Shania_L said:

Impressive! I wonder what else you have packed away in that transfer vehicle ... something for Ike perhaps?

Drat, forgot to mention I parked the transfer stage in a circularish 3000x8000 orbit after that to serve as the main relay. Still had a couple hundred m/s left in the tanks, too. I thought about including a little something for Ike, two RTG's, one zenon tank, and the micro ion engine from MicroSat (like the relays) make a potent little probe, but decided I needed the third relay instead. But still, nuclear power FTW!

2 hours ago, Shania_L said:

I have been testing a Mun rover and have also been getting the random springing into the air thing ... controllable now I have reaction controls ... the Mk 1 version had none or RCS so its mission ended a whole 20m from the lander

And people still gripe about wheels in 1.1.3 

Yes, any further attempts at a rover will include copious amounts of reaction wheels.

[CatastrophicFailure]

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Greetings, Comrades! Today we bring, Ussari Space Program: To Boldly Go Where We've No Business Being edition!

First, after disappointing but completely understandable launch failures of both TINKAN-1 and TINKAN-2, stalwart Ussari Union successfully launches world's first space station: TINKAN-3!

 

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Launching into space on underused KI-EX booster, new lightweight station will host multiple crews over several months.

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Separation from second stage just before orbital sunset! Look at pretty colors!

Look harder! That's better.

 

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TINKAN-3 successfully reaches high 500-km orbit under own power, and deploys solar arrays and mission equipment! But who has left lights on? Ivan? Ivan!

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But now, while station performs several weeks of extensive automated systems checkouts, glorious Academy of Sciences has commissioned ground-breaking mission to continue grand tradition of sticking robotic nose in places it has no business being! New mission launches on newly-certified heavy-lift vehicle, now officially dubbed Urugan-class!

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Pay no attention to disconcerting tilt of rocket, launch going absolutely according to plan!

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Fairing separate before Interim Propulsion Stage places stack into parking orbit...

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Then automatically de-orbits its self, lighting up skies all across vast and absolutely unified Union!

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After complete systems checkout, experimental methane-fueled nuclear thermal transfer stage fires for 6km/s burn, boosting transfer buss to intercept destination where nothing can possibly ever go wrong!

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Once separated from most expensive piece of interplanetary space junk ever, expansive solar arrays are unfurled to power highly efficient xenon-ion thrusters, only possible way of braking into orbit to being primary mission: to land rover at north pole of Moho!

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Absolutely not horrible idea from getgo, no one will regret this, certainly!

 

[Garrett Kerman]

On 9/4/2016 at 7:14 PM, CatastrophicFailure said:

First, after disappointing but completely understandable launch failures of both TINKAN-1 and TINKAN-2, stalwart Ussari Union successfully launches world's first space station: TINKAN-3!

Didn't TINKAN-1 and 2 make it to orbit?

[CatastrophicFailure]

19 minutes ago, Garrett Kerman said:

Didn't TINKAN-1 and 2 make it to orbit?

This... we do not speak of. 

[Geschosskopf]

Good luck with the Moho rover.  I hear the terrain's a bit steep up there at the pole.

BTW, did you know that a nose-down Mk1 pod is a perfect fit for the contours of the Mohole down at the bottom?  Of course, this is just a rumor I heard and absolutely not from personal experience

 

[CatastrophicFailure]

I have the mission screenshots still, but with much sadness I do think this thread has come to an end (no don't close it, Mods!). This save is now many versions out of date and is running single-digit framerates most of the time. That, and I've just been too distracted with everything else going on. 

[Garrett Kerman]

7 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

I have the mission screenshots still, but with much sadness I do think this thread has come to an end (no don't close it, Mods!). This save is now many versions out of date and is running single-digit framerates most of the time. That, and I've just been too distracted with everything else going on. 

Nooooooooooooo...

You could end it it with Val's mission to the moon, because that's where Whispers ends (right?). Then the glorious Ussari Union falls apart.