Thoughts on stock communication system in ksp 1.1

[ouion]

Please share your thoughts!

[RoverDude]

It sounds pretty snazzy!

[Captain Sierra]

I'd like to see a simple simulation for probe autonomy.

Example: WHen controlling a probe and you lose connection, you can continue to control the probe, but cannot relay any data back until connection is restored. If you switch off to a vessel that does not have control over the probe, you will not be able to switch back until connection is restored.

Ultimately I'm not at all opposed to it, I think it will have an interesting place. That said, I'm thoroughly frustrated Squad and co. are putting a sizable quantity of development effort into something that further increases the brick wall of a learning curve of this game rather than putting aforementioned dev time into making it not run like poo at times.

[EdusacconBR]

i can imagine people going arround kerbin deploying parachuting antenas on hard mode

[Kerbart]

The one we haven't seen in action yet? That one?

[BurnPrograde]

I think Engineers should serve as a DSN waypoint rather than Pilots. Give Bill a chance! Engineers are the techies, let them drive the remote controlled rovers. Currently I have no use for engineers. (By the way have to travel to the moon to fix a flat tire

[klesh]

I shared mine in the comments section of the article.

[Captain Sierra]

I think Engineers should serve as a DSN waypoint rather than Pilots. Give Bill a chance! Engineers are the techies, let them drive the remote controlled rovers. Currently I have no use for engineers. (By the way have to travel to the moon to fix a flat tire

Engineers though are not trained in controlling spacecraft. By said logic pilots make sense (though honestly I think any kerbal should be able to control it and then apply their respective role benefits (perhaps engineers could boost signal range/bandwidth for data upload; scientists boost science returns by filtering noise; pilots might activate a probe's internal SAS capabilities, whcih would also be active when controlled through DSN).

[Windspren]

It sounds pretty snazzy!

And you're not biased at all.

[DMagic]

I'd like to see a simple simulation for probe autonomy.

Example: WHen controlling a probe and you lose connection, you can continue to control the probe, but cannot relay any data back until connection is restored. If you switch off to a vessel that does not have control over the probe, you will not be able to switch back until connection is restored.

That's an interesting idea. I don't really like not being able to switch to the probe at all, but maybe you could just lose control of all SAS systems only after switching away. Restricting maneuver nodes while disconnected might also be interesting, or it might just be tedious...

I also like my own idea () of giving advanced probes increasing amounts of autonomy. I think it goes along well with most of the stock career mechanisms where gameplay restrictions are gradually relaxed as you progress.

Most importantly, I think, is that there needs to be a very clear indication of connection status, both in-flight and in the map view. There also needs to be clear method for telling players what the loss of connection means (ie greyed out SAS indicator, some simple message about science transmission, etc...).

Edited July 24, 2015 by DMagic

[idPhobos]

I think now attention is swung that way maybe they'll get round to fixing the descriptions on the current antennas.

[Violent Jeb]

Honestly, i'm frustrated.

Remotetech is a great mod and it seems the concepts parts etc, are part and parcel out of that mod.

However, to keep the SQUADLINESS, the end-game of the feature has been nerfed.

a. no flight computer. This is because the signal delay has been nerfed right out. So we have realism in that solar panels get weaker as the light travels the system, but our communications are superior to light in every way and don't suffer at all.

That NEEDS to be a configurable option, because the additional complexity of the design considerations are the only reason why a person would use a communcation system to begin with. As it stands, it's a slightly more convoluted version of the instant communications we have now, requiring several more parts, and (i'd imagine) several more lines of code.

To make matters worse, because it has been nerfed from the gate, it will still necessitate running remotetech anyway for many players.

So this "feature" falls directly in the SAME category as life support - it shouldn't have been done, because there's already a mod for each flavor.

If you're going to add a feature, add a complete feature which would satisfy the people who use that modded feature to begin with.

but i guess if completed features were on the menu we'd be expecting planetary bodies and bug fixes!

Those are my thoughts - you asked!

[ouion]

IRL, some probes have artificial intelligence which decide on its own in a situation where broadcast is delayed or nonexistent. I think some probes will have this AI which act on its own and some probes do not.

- - - Updated - - -

i can imagine people going arround kerbin deploying parachuting antenas on hard mode

Makeshift antennas

hahahahhahahahaahhahah:D

[waterlubber]

Here's what we know, based on discussions with RoverDude in Matoro's stream last night:

• Kerbin will be assumed to have a planet-wide Deep Space Network. I.E, if you have LoS to Kerbin, you have a signal.
  
• The difficulty will be somewhere between RemoteTech and AntennaRange.
  
• There will be no delays.
  
  
• Control can also be propagated with a pilot, a probe core, and an antenna. [?]
  
• The new system will be "snazzy".
  
  

Feel free to contribute any more information you know.

[DMagic]

Remotetech is a great mod and it seems the concepts parts etc, are part and parcel out of that mod.

I think the mistaken association of the new stock system with RemoteTech is what causes a lot of concern. From what it sounds like the new system is much closer in concept to Antenna Range than to RemoteTech.

Some people, including myself, find the advanced relays, time delay, and flight computer to be interesting for a while, but just tedious after playing long enough. If the stock system does away with that (and provides a simple interface for mods to build upon) then I'll be happy.

[Captain Sierra]

I think the mistaken association of the new stock system with RemoteTech is what causes a lot of concern. From what it sounds like the new system is much closer in concept to Antenna Range than to RemoteTech.

Some people, including myself, find the advanced relays, time delay, and flight computer to be interesting for a while, but just tedious after playing long enough. If the stock system does away with that (and provides a simple interface for mods to build upon) then I'll be happy.

That interface has been lacking as of late due to Squad's propensity to hard code important values. Parachute safe speed is a perfect example.

[OddFunction]

My only thought on the new communication upgrade is that I wish Toadicus got a shout out. Not a job, not a salary, not a golden plaque with "Toad" spelled out in diamonds, but a simple acknowledgement that this is AntennaRange being stockified. The dude worked hard on a brilliant mod and it appears Squad agrees

[DMagic]

That interface has been lacking as of late due to Squad's propensity to hard code important values. Parachute safe speed is a perfect example.

While I'm sure you can find specific examples of such things, KSP in general has been getting much better about exposing code. The resource system, physics config, compound parts, tech node, building upgrades, etc... are all very amenable (or at least more so than they were before) to modding, and I can't see any reason why the relay system wouldn't be, not to mention that RoverDude has already said it would be.

[Starwhip]

It sounds pretty snazzy!

Go back to your Space Shuttle museum.

I like the way it's looking so far.

[DJK]

I was personally looking forward for a stock communication system to be implemented, but seeing SQUAD's implementation technique of some important feature sets, i'm not getting my hopes up with this one.

From the info we have.. to me the system is pretty.. underwhelming.

SQUAD has chosen the "easy way" of "somewhat" implementing a mod into stock. But this so called "easy way" is a double edge sword, specially in this case, where ppl either want something similar to antenna range or remote tech. A mod is a mod, a game feature is a game feature. Not entirely the same. The community will be split.

There is no middle ground here.. making a mix between antenna range & RT is not going to magically make everyone happy. The only option is to allow.. wait for it.. customization. But i'm pretty sure that is not going to happen.

As it stands, i personally don't care about the system.. i'll probably continue using RT and just ignore the time and effort SQUAD has put into the new stock communication system & consider it waste of resources which would have been better spent elsewhere.. because.. u know.. why bother if you're not going to do it properly.. and because i find the system itself.. lacking.

Edited July 24, 2015 by DJK

[Alshain]

My OPINION:

Usually when stock features like this come around (Aerodynamics, ISRU, etc) I try them and then end up going back the mod. In this case however the description is good enough to know I will not like it, just because it has no challenge like RemoteTech does so it seems pointless to me. I certainly hope you guys enjoy it.

All that said, I do like the new models, they are very nice and I hope they can be used to replace or add to some of the RemoteTech dishes that are a little more 'blah'. One of them looks backward though, the point of a dish is to reflect the signal but the second largest one in the image looks like the receiver is pointed out into space. Not a deal breaker or anything, it's still very pretty. I especially like the big one and I hope RemoteTech takes it's appearance to heart and uses it as a combination directional and omni.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Alshain

[PhilTact]

I think it sounds great. I usually play with remote tech but it really needs a deep space network. The first 20 hours of a remote tech career game are just plain tedious.

[Superfluous J]

I'm looking forward to it. RemoteTech had too much busy work and AntennaRange didn't seem to have any interesting things to consider other than "how far are you going?"

Don't get me wrong. I really enjoyed RemoteTech when I played with it, but the thought of setting all that stuff up again makes me shiver. And not because it was difficult. I can't really speak to AntennaRange as I never tried it. My thoughts on it are based on memories of perusing the thread months ago.

[Red Iron Crown]

I like what I've read about it so far, seems like a good mix of features without so much complexity or tedium to turn off less experienced players. It does seem to be a lot of parts to support this element, we'll have more antennas than we have rover wheels, or landing legs, for example.

One thing I've noticed about Squad implementing features that were previously done by mods: The heavy users of those mods are never satisfied. New stock aero didn't satisfy most FAR enthusiasts. Stock ISRU didn't seem to satisfy the Kethane/Karbonite/ScanSAT crowd. Better stock spaceplane parts didn't satisfy the B9 people. I expect I'll be one of these people when/if a stock delta-V meter is implemented, it will likely be simpler than KER (or alternatives) so I'll stick to the mod.

The thing is, these implemented features make a good core for those who don't use mods and make those aspects of the game better for a majority of players (I don't think any single mod is used by the majority of the playerbase, I'd be surprised if the majority uses mods at all). Players can then pick and choose where the stock game doesn't satisfy them and use mods to enhance those aspects. Best of all, the new features added lately seem to be made with ease of moddability in mind, so they should make it easier to have mods that are robust and fully featured without reinventing the wheel.

[Wjolcz]

I wouldn't say much, because I haven't tried it yet. And can't compare to RemoteTech, because I really never even used it. Though it sounds like a good feature. I'm a bit scared of what might happen to my probes that will be out of range, but I'll just treat them as sun-toasted, unusable pieces of space junk. Radiation is pretty harsh.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Veeltch