[Min KSP 1.12.2] Buffalo: NASA Inspired Modular Space Exploration Vehicle

[TheKurgan]

Oh man!!  I can't use the newest version, it would break all of my extensively used rovers  There is very very little wrong with the Gryzzly... I love the wheel... if it shows up as blocked, I just use the move tool and tweak it's position slightly and I use the settings I stated above. Hopefully it's not a difficult fix.

[DStaal]

Ok, note to self: The new Flex Fuel Power Pack works 'oddly' with the inflatable Wagon:

[Angelo Kerman]

9 minutes ago, DStaal said:

Ok, note to self: The new Flex Fuel Power Pack works 'oddly' with the inflatable Wagon:

Uh, yeah... that's a bug, the Wagon shouldn't allow attached parts.

1 hour ago, TheKurgan said:

Oh man!!  I can't use the newest version, it would break all of my extensively used rovers  There is very very little wrong with the Gryzzly... I love the wheel... if it shows up as blocked, I just use the move tool and tweak it's position slightly and I use the settings I stated above. Hopefully it's not a difficult fix.

Can't use the new version? Grizzly is still there..

[DStaal]

Just now, Angel-125 said:

Uh, yeah... that's a bug, the Wagon shouldn't allow attached parts.

For reference: It's surface attached on that.  In case it matters.

I just took a pre-existing design and threw a fuel pack on top to see if it worked with the Wagon.  I didn't really expect it to, and that rover was intended to work on solar power anyway.  (Though if the flex fuel pack had worked on it I would have kept it as the updated design - solar's nice, but it's also nice to be able to work at night, even if I find driving in the dark to be hazardous.)

[GJNelson]

Will you be adding a listing in CKAN?

Edited July 10, 2016 by GJNelson

[Angelo Kerman]

On 7/6/2016 at 3:59 PM, GJNelson said:

Will be adding a listing in CKAN?

Nope. See original post.

Edit: I'll tell ya what: pay me $50,000 US Dollars and I'll put my mods on CKAN.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Angel-125

[GJNelson]

On 7/8/2016 at 5:01 PM, Angel-125 said:

Nope. See original post.

Edit: I'll tell ya what: pay me $50,000 US Dollars and I'll put my mods on CKAN.

Yeah, I see that now in the first thread post. Ah well, I just wish there was a common mod updater for use with KSP mods. Thank you for the response though.

[Geschosskopf]

@Angel-125, are the Mountain Goat wheels' decouplers supposed to work when those wheels are attached to parts other than the Pathfinder Conestoga?  Because they don't.  Instead, there's just a flash but the wheels remain attached and fully functional.  This is true whether the decoupler is in staging or activated only via the right-click menu.  I've tested this on various non-Conestoga parts, such as structural girders, command pods, and fuel tanks.  It would be nice if the decouplers worked on everything.

Also, any chance of adding a 3rd mode to the FlexFuel fuel-cell thing?  One that burns LF and IntakeAir if O2 is available in the atmosphere?

Thanks.

[Angelo Kerman]

7 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

@Angel-125, are the Mountain Goat wheels' decouplers supposed to work when those wheels are attached to parts other than the Pathfinder Conestoga?  Because they don't.  Instead, there's just a flash but the wheels remain attached and fully functional.  This is true whether the decoupler is in staging or activated only via the right-click menu.  I've tested this on various non-Conestoga parts, such as structural girders, command pods, and fuel tanks.  It would be nice if the decouplers worked on everything.

Also, any chance of adding a 3rd mode to the FlexFuel fuel-cell thing?  One that burns LF and IntakeAir if O2 is available in the atmosphere?

Thanks.

I haven't tested the wheel decouplers on non-Conestoga parts but I can do that. And a LF + IntakeAir is definitely possible, thanks for the suggestion.

[Angelo Kerman]

@Geschosskopf Ok, I see what is going on with the wheels. The decoupler works with the attachment node on the wheel. So it works fine if you node-attach it to the chassis, for instance. But if you surface-attach the part, then the decoupler won't work. Surface-attaching wasn't something I had thought of, but I think I can come up with a workaround.

Also:

Edited July 23, 2016 by Angel-125

[Geschosskopf]

2 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

Surface-attaching wasn't something I had thought of, but I think I can come up with a workaround.

Cool .  Let us know either way, though.  I can use cubic octagonal struts if nodes are necessary.

 

[Angelo Kerman]

Get 0.4.0 here!

Flex Fuel Power Pack
- Flex Fuel Power Pack can now run on LiquidFuel & IntakeAir. It produces as much ElectricCharge as LiquidFuel/Oxidizer. Thanks for the suggestion, @Geschosskopf!
- Added exhaust effects.

Buffalo Crew Cabin
- Added a node on the top to help facilitate mounting the Flex Fuel Power Pack.

M1-A1
- you can now decouple the OmniWheel when it is surface attached as well as when node mounted.

Rendering Performance
- Improved performance and reduced memory footprint for resource distribution.
- Improved rendering performancs of the Operations Manager.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Angel-125

[Angelo Kerman]

@Geschosskopf It occurs to me that the LiquidFuel & IntakeAir configuration might burn liquid fuel a bit too quickly. It needs some playtesting/balancing... I'm thinking cut the consumption rate of liquid fuel in half.

Edit: Done.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Angel-125

[Geschosskopf]

1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

@Geschosskopf It occurs to me that the LiquidFuel & IntakeAir configuration might burn liquid fuel a bit too quickly. It needs some playtesting/balancing... I'm thinking cut the consumption rate of liquid fuel in half.

Edit: Done.

So you mean you have already?  Is that what the 34.1 in Pathfinder is?

[Angelo Kerman]

1 minute ago, Geschosskopf said:

So you mean you have already?  Is that what the 34.1 in Pathfinder is?

Yup, updated the consumption rate. Made sense, the LF+IntakeAir has limited use.

[Geschosskopf]

24 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

Yup, updated the consumption rate. Made sense, the LF+IntakeAir has limited use.

OK, great.

As to the Mountain Goat decouplers, they now work when radially attached if you do them individually with the right-click menu.  The downside is, this makes them go flying skywards to great heights (hang time on Kerbin is about 10 seconds), which is cool but might be dangerous in a crowded base area .  However, staging them simultaneously still doesn't work.  You get a flash but the wheels remain attached and functional..

[Angelo Kerman]

10 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

OK, great.

As to the Mountain Goat decouplers, they now work when radially attached if you do them individually with the right-click menu.  The downside is, this makes them go flying skywards to great heights (hang time on Kerbin is about 10 seconds), which is cool but might be dangerous in a crowded base area .  However, staging them simultaneously still doesn't work.  You get a flash but the wheels remain attached and functional..

I'm picturing John Denver's "Fly Away" playing in the background as the wheels get air time. Hm. Well, not staging simultaneously might be an artifact of the workaround. I had to use two decouplers to make it work. I tried setting the wheels to action groups to decouple them, and that worked just fine. The other option is to simply destroy the wheels. I can see it working by having a demo charge built in that can be triggered through staging (which is turned off by default). When manually turned on, you'll get a decoupler icon and the ability to trigger the demo charges through staging.

[Geschosskopf]

1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

The other option is to simply destroy the wheels. I can see it working by having a demo charge built in that can be triggered through staging (which is turned off by default). When manually turned on, you'll get a decoupler icon and the ability to trigger the demo charges through staging.

If you can do that, be sure to tell @Dman979 so he can use that to fix TAC Self-Destruct   But I'll go with the action groups.

In more serious news, the Grizzly wheel seems to be blocked when just stuck under a Buffalo while the Mountain Goat on the same node is not.

And I'm having more serious problems.  After messing with anything Buffalo-related, the editor craps out, both VAB and SPH.  I can build something once no problem, but if I revert it the editor no longer functions.  I can't place parts, can't bring up right-click menus, and the in SPH I can't even move the camera.  I am using Editor Extension, but this didin't happen before this last patch.

[Dman979]

6 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

If you can do that, be sure to tell @Dman979 so he can use that to fix TAC Self-Destruct  

Actually, if you get that working, please let me know. If it's ok with you, and it fits, I can include it in the next release of TAC-SD (coming Soon^tm).

On the other hand, if I get TAC-SD working first, I'd be happy to lend you some lines of code, so long as it's mentioned in a comment somewhere.

[Angelo Kerman]

10 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

If you can do that, be sure to tell @Dman979 so he can use that to fix TAC Self-Destruct   But I'll go with the action groups.

In more serious news, the Grizzly wheel seems to be blocked when just stuck under a Buffalo while the Mountain Goat on the same node is not.

And I'm having more serious problems.  After messing with anything Buffalo-related, the editor craps out, both VAB and SPH.  I can build something once no problem, but if I revert it the editor no longer functions.  I can't place parts, can't bring up right-click menus, and the in SPH I can't even move the camera.  I am using Editor Extension, but this didin't happen before this last patch.

The blocked Grizzly wheels is due to their design. KSP 1.2 will apparently fix that. For the other issue, please send me your logs and what craft you built. I can't reproduce it; I was able to revert the flight with a buffalo craft and didn't have editor issues.

[Angelo Kerman]

Definitely can detonate the wheels:

Pretty much as simple as:

        [KSPEvent(guiActive = true)]
        public void Detonate()
        {
            this.part.decouple(10.0f);
            this.part.explode();
        }

 

[Geschosskopf]

10 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

The blocked Grizzly wheels is due to their design. KSP 1.2 will apparently fix that. For the other issue, please send me your logs and what craft you built. I can't reproduce it; I was able to revert the flight with a buffalo craft and didn't have editor issues.

Funny you should ask.  I just spent the morning so far doing all sorts of tests.

This is a game that is pristine stock EXCEPT for Pathfinder 0.9.34.1, which includes whatever version of Buffalo was current then.  I tested the Flex-Fuel thing and the Griz wheels, and had all sorts of problems with the editor.  I was going to do more testing with the MG wheel decouplers but ran into more editor problems so decided to report what I had before it became irrelevant.

I did 3 game sessions, having to restart the game due to the editor problems.  I failed to capture the 1st one but I got the KSP.log files for the other 2.  None of these sessions created an output.log file.  I have also attached the persistence and the craft files.

Save and craft files:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/2pys3bph980ihlo/PF-341-Save and Craft Files.zip?dl=0

Session 2:  Issues with Flex-Fuel and MG Wheels terminated by Editor Dying:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/72t2dua5yd8qfng/Zero LF Consumption%2C Power Output%2C and Editor Hosing.zip?dl=0

Session 3:  Issues with Flex-Fuel and Griz Wheels terminated by Editor Dying:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/3xet7p9ob1y8jp2/Griz Blocked.zip?dl=0

Overview of Tests:

Session 1:
Built a Flex-Fuel-powered Buffalo with MG wheels.  Flex-Fuel is using the LF + IntakeAir mode because I changed all chassis parts to hold LF and added an LF tank---no oxidizer available.  It also had the small amount of Mono in the Flex-Fuel and crew pods.  Anyway, I drove this over the big hill bearing 192^ from the runway and noticed the following things:

• With 6 MG wheels using 2 EC/sec each max, the vehicle's total EC storage never dropped below max.  This is to be expected if the Flex-Fuel is putting out its rated 18 EC/sec in LF+IntakeAir mode.  However, the Flex-Fuel's right-click menu said it was never producing more than 1-2 EC/sec, which I think was from the solar panel on top, not the generator.
• The Flex-Fuel consumed ZERO fuel, neither LF nor Mono, during the trip, and the resource tab showed (0) rate of consumption for both.
• Otherwise, the rover worked quite well and climbed the hill no problem, and down the other side, with default wheel settings

 

This session ended when I hit ESC, returned to the Space Center, and reentered the VAB to modify the vehicle for another test.  At this point, the editor died.  When I right-clicked on something, probably the Flex-Fuel, its menu got into an infinite loop of spamming EC resource bars and would have crashed my whole system if I hadn't fled the SPH and quit the game.

Sorry, no log for this.

 

Session 2
I restarted the game, opened the same rover, and stuck an ion engine on top of the cab.  I also changed the front chassis to XenonGas.  Then I drove this off to the side of the runway, fired up the Flex-Fuel and the ion engine, and observed the resource flow.  To speed things up, I used 4x physical warp, which caused the rover's front wheels to flatten.  I observed the following:

• Total vehicle EC was dropping by 6.3/sec.  The ion engine uses 8 EC/sec so this should not have happened if the Flex-Fuel was putting out its rated power.  Again, it showed only 1-2 EC/sec flow, probably from the solar panel.  Combining these numbers results in the 8 EC/sec for the ion engine (plus whatever the various lights were using)..  It thus appears that the Flex-Fuel wasn't working at all.
• The ion engine consumed XenonGas but the Flex-Fuel again consumed zero fuel of any type.

This session ended with another editor death.  This time, I left-clicked and right-clicked on the MG wheels, intended to replace them with Grizzlies.  Neither click had any effect and any new part selected was stuck at the edge of the parts menu and could not be moved from there.  Leaving the SPH and going into the VAB, I could place the 1st part of a new ship but nothing thereafter, nor even move the camera.  I got a log of this.

 

Session 3:
I managed to make an unblocked Grizzly-wheeled version of this vehicle by extending the chassis on both ends so nothing overhung above the wheels.  I then drove this along the same route as used by the original MG-wheeled rover.  This rover successfully climbed the steep hill and made it down the other side to park next to the original rover.  I then warped forward 2 days of gametime to observe fuel consumption.  During this test, I observed the following:

• Total vehicle EC storage was decreasing at 11-14/sec.  Some decrease was expected when using full wheel power because 6x Grizzlies require 21/sec and the Flex-Fuel is supposed to provide 18.  Thus, again, the Flex-Fuel wasn't producing its rated power.
• Neither LF nor Mono were consumed during the trip.
• Neither LF nor Mono were consumed in the ensuing 2 days of sitting their with the lights on.
• The Grizzly wheels had even less trouble climbing the hill than the MGs, even with default settings.

Interestingly, the editor survived me going back to the SPH after parking this vehicle.  So next I wanted to test radially attached MG wheel decoupling and built a new rover for that.  Unfortunately, this rover had no probe core and I was out of astronauts by then, so it did nothing when I launched it.  When I reverted it to the SPH, I opened the astronaut tab, hit the "Go to Astronaut Complex" button at the bottom, and hired a bunch of Kerbals.  Upon return to the SPH, however, the astronaut list was still totally blank and the usual problems with no functionality at all then appeared, so I ended this session and got a log of it, too.  Thus, I never got to test the radial decoupling.

Other Issue Noted:

• The only way to turn on the internal cabin lights of the Buffalo cab is via the right-click menu IN FLIGHT.  There is no switch in the right-click window in the editor, and there is no action group trigger for it, either.1

-----------------------

Anyway, I hope that helps.

 

EDIT

10 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

Definitely can detonate the wheels:

Cool!  But I prefer to save them for later use or scrapping

 

Edited July 24, 2016 by Geschosskopf

[DStaal]

1 hour ago, Geschosskopf said:

Funny you should ask.  I just spent the morning so far doing all sorts of tests.

This is a game that is pristine stock EXCEPT for Pathfinder 0.9.34.1, which includes whatever version of Buffalo was current then.  I tested the Flex-Fuel thing and the Griz wheels, and had all sorts of problems with the editor.  I was going to do more testing with the MG wheel decouplers but ran into more editor problems so decided to report what I had before it became irrelevant.

I did 3 game sessions, having to restart the game due to the editor problems.  I failed to capture the 1st one but I got the KSP.log files for the other 2.  None of these sessions created an output.log file.  I have also attached the persistence and the craft files.

Save and craft files:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/2pys3bph980ihlo/PF-341-Save and Craft Files.zip?dl=0

Session 2:  Issues with Flex-Fuel and MG Wheels terminated by Editor Dying:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/72t2dua5yd8qfng/Zero LF Consumption%2C Power Output%2C and Editor Hosing.zip?dl=0

Session 3:  Issues with Flex-Fuel and Griz Wheels terminated by Editor Dying:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/3xet7p9ob1y8jp2/Griz Blocked.zip?dl=0

Overview of Tests:

Session 1:
Built a Flex-Fuel-powered Buffalo with MG wheels.  Flex-Fuel is using the LF + IntakeAir mode because I changed all chassis parts to hold LF and added an LF tank---no oxidizer available.  It also had the small amount of Mono in the Flex-Fuel and crew pods.  Anyway, I drove this over the big hill bearing 192^ from the runway and noticed the following things:

• With 6 MG wheels using 2 EC/sec each max, the vehicle's total EC storage never dropped below max.  This is to be expected if the Flex-Fuel is putting out its rated 18 EC/sec in LF+IntakeAir mode.  However, the Flex-Fuel's right-click menu said it was never producing more than 1-2 EC/sec, which I think was from the solar panel on top, not the generator.
• The Flex-Fuel consumed ZERO fuel, neither LF nor Mono, during the trip, and the resource tab showed (0) rate of consumption for both.
• Otherwise, the rover worked quite well and climbed the hill no problem, and down the other side, with default wheel settings

 

This session ended when I hit ESC, returned to the Space Center, and reentered the VAB to modify the vehicle for another test.  At this point, the editor died.  When I right-clicked on something, probably the Flex-Fuel, its menu got into an infinite loop of spamming EC resource bars and would have crashed my whole system if I hadn't fled the SPH and quit the game.

Sorry, no log for this.

 

Session 2
I restarted the game, opened the same rover, and stuck an ion engine on top of the cab.  I also changed the front chassis to XenonGas.  Then I drove this off to the side of the runway, fired up the Flex-Fuel and the ion engine, and observed the resource flow.  To speed things up, I used 4x physical warp, which caused the rover's front wheels to flatten.  I observed the following:

• Total vehicle EC was dropping by 6.3/sec.  The ion engine uses 8 EC/sec so this should not have happened if the Flex-Fuel was putting out its rated power.  Again, it showed only 1-2 EC/sec flow, probably from the solar panel.  Combining these numbers results in the 8 EC/sec for the ion engine (plus whatever the various lights were using)..  It thus appears that the Flex-Fuel wasn't working at all.
• The ion engine consumed XenonGas but the Flex-Fuel again consumed zero fuel of any type.

This session ended with another editor death.  This time, I left-clicked and right-clicked on the MG wheels, intended to replace them with Grizzlies.  Neither click had any effect and any new part selected was stuck at the edge of the parts menu and could not be moved from there.  Leaving the SPH and going into the VAB, I could place the 1st part of a new ship but nothing thereafter, nor even move the camera.  I got a log of this.

 

Session 3:
I managed to make an unblocked Grizzly-wheeled version of this vehicle by extending the chassis on both ends so nothing overhung above the wheels.  I then drove this along the same route as used by the original MG-wheeled rover.  This rover successfully climbed the steep hill and made it down the other side to park next to the original rover.  I then warped forward 2 days of gametime to observe fuel consumption.  During this test, I observed the following:

• Total vehicle EC storage was decreasing at 11-14/sec.  Some decrease was expected when using full wheel power because 6x Grizzlies require 21/sec and the Flex-Fuel is supposed to provide 18.  Thus, again, the Flex-Fuel wasn't producing its rated power.
• Neither LF nor Mono were consumed during the trip.
• Neither LF nor Mono were consumed in the ensuing 2 days of sitting their with the lights on.
• The Grizzly wheels had even less trouble climbing the hill than the MGs, even with default settings.

Interestingly, the editor survived me going back to the SPH after parking this vehicle.  So next I wanted to test radially attached MG wheel decoupling and built a new rover for that.  Unfortunately, this rover had no probe core and I was out of astronauts by then, so it did nothing when I launched it.  When I reverted it to the SPH, I opened the astronaut tab, hit the "Go to Astronaut Complex" button at the bottom, and hired a bunch of Kerbals.  Upon return to the SPH, however, the astronaut list was still totally blank and the usual problems with no functionality at all then appeared, so I ended this session and got a log of it, too.  Thus, I never got to test the radial decoupling.

Other Issue Noted:

• The only way to turn on the internal cabin lights of the Buffalo cab is via the right-click menu IN FLIGHT.  There is no switch in the right-click window in the editor, and there is no action group trigger for it, either.1

-----------------------

Anyway, I hope that helps.

 

EDIT

Cool!  But I prefer to save them for later use or scrapping

 

Just as a thought, but have you tried either bringing Oxidizer, or switching the flex-fuel to a mode that doesn't require it?

[Angelo Kerman]

@Geschosskopf Found the problems right away, thank you much for your detailed bug report, it really helps!

The editor is hosed because of the special decoupler switcher I made for the Mountain Goats:

[EXC 09:22:45.503] NullReferenceException
	WildBlueIndustries.WBIDecoupleSwitcher.setupDecouplers ()
	WildBlueIndustries.WBIDecoupleSwitcher.vesselModified (.ShipConstruct data)
	EventData`1[ShipConstruct].Fire (.ShipConstruct data)
	UIPartActionResourceEditor.OnSliderChanged (Single obj)
	UIPartActionResourceEditor.Setup (.UIPartActionWindow window, .Part part, UI_Scene scene, .UI_Control control, .PartResource resource)
	UIPartActionWindow.AddResourceEditorControl (.PartResource r)
	UIPartActionWindow.SetupResourceControls (.PartResource r, Boolean clearFirst, UI_Scene scene, System.Int32& controlIndex)
	UIPartActionWindow.CreatePartList (Boolean clearFirst)
	UIPartActionWindow.UpdateWindow ()
	UIPartActionController.UpdateActiveWindows ()
	UIPartActionController.UpdateEditor ()
	UIPartActionController.Update ()

I'm going to redesign the decoupler switcher and create a custom decoupler to get around this issue, and to make it so that no matter if you are node-attached or surface-attached, it will decouple. It'll also have the option to detonate the wheels.

The Power Pack is actually working fine, it's just configured incorrectly. In your current configuration, the power pack is using LiquidFuel & Oxidizer:

To use LiquidFuel and IntakeAir, you need to toggle through the flex fuel options until you get it like so:

Once you do that, the generator will kick in whenever you need extra power:

I should have the decoupler issue fixed later today. If you want to get started right away, simply delete the following from M1A1OmniWheel.cfg:

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleDecouple
		ejectionForce = 150
		explosiveNodeID = srf
		stagingEnabled = false
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = WBIDecoupleSwitcher
	}

This will get you un stuck.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Angel-125

[Angelo Kerman]

Ok, good news! My custom decoupler works perfectly and eliminates editor hosing. Here's a picture with wheels node attached and surface attached. The new ejection force is 50 (1/3 what it was before to avoid John Denver songs):

And the wheels decoupled:

The wheels also have a self-destruct option. It cannot be staged, but it can be action-grouped. As a safety measure, the explosive charges are disarmed by default.