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The Elcano Challenge: Ground-Based Circumnavigation (Continued)


Claw

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Forgot minutes. While I just don't care 'bout racing, and I like exploring, 20 hours is crazy! 100 m/s may seem like a lot, but is probably possible on a MK3 boat with those big jets. (J-90)

I can only really play this on weekends, but summer vacation gives me tons of planning time. Looking forward to this. 

P.S. What is top underwater speed?

P.P.S If I make a Hypersonic Submerged Rover, do I get the ocean badge or the normal badge.

P.P.P.S. Can I use rockets ( not sure how to do this really ) to jump mountains, or that gap between kerfrica, and Kerturkey. because otherwise purely ground travel requires polar travel.

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3 hours ago, W. Kerman said:

While I just don't care 'bout racing, and I like exploring, 20 hours is crazy! 100 m/s may seem like a lot, but is probably possible on a MK3 boat with those big jets. (J-90)

I suggest you have a look at my (not quite finished) mission report. Having just completed a roughly 24-hour circumnavigation (that's in-game time, not play time), I'm probably pretty well situated to address this.

The speed you will get out of a boat depends on a lot of factors, including (but not limited to) how many engines it has, how draggy it is, how heavy it is and how deep it sits in the water. A lot of these variables are linked: adding engines makes you heavier, which makes you sit deeper in the water, which makes you draggier - not to mention the increased fuel consumption demands bigger fuel tanks, which again makes you heavier, etc.

100m/s is certainly possible for limited periods, but I would be extremely surprised to see a circumnavigation craft and route that could average such a velocity. My circumnavigation took 24 and 3/4 hours over a less-than-optimal route (in other words more than the length of the equator) and I don't believe I ever actually hit 100m/s at all. Fuel consumption is a major problem as thrust increases - you'll need to have a plan for refuelling, either by tanker or by ISRU, and fuelling stops will naturally add to the time.

[Edit: I've crunched some numbers on the above, and it turns out I only averaged something around 45-50 m/s (42m/s based on 24.75 hours and 3.77Mm distance - however true distance was somewhat higher but I can't be precise). While it's fair to say that my craft could have done better (I had a debilitating accident about half-way round), I think Claw's estimate of about 60m/s is probably on target as a realistic average for a fast craft with minimal stoppage.]

It's worth considering that perhaps ground-based circumnavigation just isn't for you. On reflection on my trip, the most rewarding parts were those where I was forced to go slowly over land and had time to take in the slowly changing and very dramatic scenery. Actually getting back to the finish line so quickly was a bit of an anti-climax. My next outing will be deliberately at a much slower pace.

3 hours ago, W. Kerman said:

P.S. What is top underwater speed?

No idea. I would be amazed if it was faster than properly trimmed surface cruising.

3 hours ago, W. Kerman said:

P.P.S If I make a Hypersonic Submerged Rover, do I get the ocean badge or the normal badge

If you manage this (haha) I guess it would depend if you were driving on the seabed or floating through the water like a submarine.

3 hours ago, W. Kerman said:

P.P.P.S. Can I use rockets ( not sure how to do this really ) to jump mountains, or that gap between kerfrica, and Kerturkey. because otherwise purely ground travel requires polar travel.

No, that would be flying which is against the rules - they're in the top post of this thread, and worth a thorough read if you are contemplating a serious entry to this challenge. You have to stay on the ground or on or under the water at all times (with allowance for little leaps from overspeeding over bumps and ridges).

Actually there is no 'purely' ground circumnavigation route - sooner or later you have to cross the ocean. Don't forget that when you look at the rectangular map of Kerbin, tho the left and right edges join up to each other, the top and bottom of the map don't.

If you're still keen to go ahead with this, keep asking questions - it's not my intention to put you or anybody else off, but Elcanoing is a pretty unique way to play KSP and certainly doesn't suit all players of the game in pace of gratification or endurance demands.

Edited by The_Rocketeer
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My current path is the following-

KSC- Southern Airport Ocean refuel at bottom of Kerbin Africa 60 Km

SAO- Below the impact Crater refuel at weird bottom part there 150 Km

Go south refuel, drive over land, proceed to KSC

YAY!

If you have a better path tell me. Thanks for all the support!

 

 

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Guys. I did this for fun. But seriously though, how cool would it be to do Elcano overland in this. KAS/KIS box on the roof-rack and off you go! Found it looking for the jeep from Nassault's film Kerbal: A KSP Movie.


And
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On 20 July 2016 at 3:58 AM, Claw said:

Looking good! I'm enjoying your mission report style. I imagine it's quite a lot of work, but looking good!

Hi mate. Thanks for the encouragement. Yeah it is some work, but it's half the fun - making meaning and reflecting on it socially. I'm glad you guys are enjoying it. I may not be able to keep up this level of reporting. The summaries might get briefer per day, and cover more days per summary.  PS: You're Grand Master medal looks good, although you might perhaps check the aspect ration of the embedded version in your sig, it looks a little stretched. Would be a shame to have it askew.

On 20 July 2016 at 0:46 PM, W. Kerman said:

Go south refuel, drive over land, proceed to KSC

YAY!

If you have a better path tell me. Thanks for all the support!

Hi, I think I follow you for the first half, but get lost after that. Could you draw it on a map? I hope you find this as rewarding as I currently am. 

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10 hours ago, Maverick_aus said:

Hi mate. Thanks for the encouragement. Yeah it is some work, but it's half the fun - making meaning and reflecting on it socially. I'm glad you guys are enjoying it. I may not be able to keep up this level of reporting. The summaries might get briefer per day, and cover more days per summary.  PS: You're Grand Master medal looks good, although you might perhaps check the aspect ration of the embedded version in your sig, it looks a little stretched. Would be a shame to have it askew.

Hi, I think I follow you for the first half, but get lost after that. Could you draw it on a map? I hope you find this as rewarding as I currently am. 

I am bad when it comes to drawing on computers, 

1. Current plan, go to library, print our map of Kerbin, draw on it, take a picture of it on my mom's phone, upload it on my mom's computer, turn it into a jpeg, find a website that will make it into forum friendly format, and post it finally.

(Time 5 hour)

2. Please help with how to do this

(Time ???)

3. Put a map o Kerbin on google drive make map do lalalala, time 15 min sorry fr stuff awful keyboard on phone 

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Happy to not PM...I just thought I better not clog up this thread with a discussion a little off topic. Hopefully Claw forgives me, anyway.
If you want the steps here they are:
1. Open this link which is a map of Kerbin from Kerbalmaps.
2. Once it opens, right click on the image and click 'save as...' or 'save image...' or something like this.
3. If you're using Windows, open mspaint, a drawing program. (Windows button > type mspaint and enter). If not you can use a similar online editor here which seems to work similarily: https://pixlr.com/editor/
4. Draw some dots as waypoints or lines as the route onto the pic. Use the drawing tool which looks like a pencil, and select a bright colour.
5. Save (and download if using the online editor).
6. Register for a imgur or equivalent account. 
7. Upload the map image to imgur.
8. Embed the imgur image into a new post on the KSP forum, either by copy and pasting the BB code version of the image link, or by clicking the little 'i' icon in the KSP forum editor.

Any qns with the above ask away!

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Hey kerbonauts, I removed some off topic posts. I don't mind if you need to use the thread to pass some helpful info, if other methods of sharing are undesirable.

Everyone does things a little different...It's important to keep that in mind. And also the fact that it's really easy to misunderstand written text (especially if it includes sarcasm) when you didn't intend to be rude or insulting. No worries, and carry on. I don't think any harm was intended so no need to continue the off topic-ness.

Cheers,
~Claw

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21 hours ago, Maverick_aus said:

although you might perhaps check the aspect ration of the embedded version in your sig, it looks a little stretched.

I'm not quite seeing it here. It is slightly wider than the others, so I'm not sure if that's affecting things. (The height is the same.) The one in my sig is the same as the one on the main page. Looking at that next to the other two master badges (on the front page), I'm not quite eyeballing the issue.

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9 minutes ago, Claw said:

I'm not quite seeing it here. It is slightly wider than the others, so I'm not sure if that's affecting things. (The height is the same.) The one in my sig is the same as the one on the main page. Looking at that next to the other two master badges (on the front page), I'm not quite eyeballing the issue.

Ah ok. I see. It was my browser squeezing the sig image, dynamically (and non proportionally) but not other images, when the browser is not maximised. Sorry for that.

sCh0D90.png

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I've also started an attempt today, on Dres. My Mako-inspired vehicle performed a night landing, coming up short on fuel and hitting the ground at just under 30m/s on an area which happened to be flat and conducive to drilling. Dres' gravity is lower than I expected. This rover is designed to handle best on moderately-sized bodies, like Vall, which was the target of the original version lacking the roll-cage to protect the solar panels. After that failed I picked Dres as a target for the improved version, since I like the place and pretty much no one goes there. Turns out the self-righting motors are useful for simulating higher gravity.

6e184ed7fb.png

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On 7/21/2016 at 5:25 PM, Maverick_aus said:

It was my browser squeezing the sig image

Ah, good to know. Definitely squished.

 

On 7/23/2016 at 1:21 PM, W. Kerman said:

Elcano challenge attempt starts today!

Good luck!

 

On 7/23/2016 at 6:55 PM, String Witch said:

I've also started an attempt today, on Dres.

Nice looking rover. I like the roll cage. :)

 

17 hours ago, SpaceK531 said:

I have updated my mission thread.

Nice job! Looks like it's been a busy mission so far.

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14 hours ago, damerell said:

That's a curious design. Mind telling us about it?

Sure.

I didn't take pictures initially.....As I was playing.

I wanted to do this:

battle_sfrance5.jpg

With the Kerbals on the outside. My early design didn't work too well.

Unstable, flipped over when applying jet power.

I started making it wider. Longer. It was a mess of girders dragging and not floating right.

So I made it wide added wings for flotation and lift. An elevator in the front for picking the nose up while in water....But not while going fast on land (Fly and crash).

This is the first iteration that made it to the old airfield:

GBr9PUG.png

I found that Kerbals are attracted to tires and explode in a greasy puff. :o

CySVtLp.png

You have to admit that "That's got to hurt".

Tires kept busting.and fuel wasn't good enough. I couldn't go back to the mainland. There was a propellant feed issue above 76% or so too (Only on one engine....Frustrating).

SN59rYo.png

This is the new one with bigger tanks:

5X5263u.png

The Sea-Trials went well. Rode the sea well. Was fast enough with 4000 units of fuel. :D

99i0H39.png

Still had tire issues. But the Kerbals had a blast at the old airfield:

6FG26kc.png

hmbUwzL.png

So I upgraded to a double row of tires to support the weight (Three words: 24 Wheels Drive). Especially on slope changes where tires busted the most

gi0jZm5.png

Still has tire issues. But I can manage now that I am on my way (Also Nedbur got an upgrade to class 3 Engineer) (Rumour at the Astronaut Complex is that "Someone" hacked his flight log and added a Bop Landing :wink:) . Part of the problem is the Kerbal-Protection-fender clips the rear and front wheels when the suspension max out.

I call it "Le Canot". It's kind of a joke as I speak French and "Le" is the equivalent of "El" and "Canot" means "Canoe" and the pronunciation is very much the same as "Cano". So to me "The Canoe". To you "Le Cano". Jokes (Especially the not funny ones) aren't so funny when explained :( .

I am tempted to make a Mission Report but Imgur hates me. Or is it the other way around?

So there.

 

I now know that the Sea-Speed Isn't good enough now. Doing 9.5 m/s. But I was going to do Air drops anyway. So I will do more and cross at the narrower points. :D

 

1 hour ago, Claw said:

@Martian Emigrant Yes, I too am curious about it. And also the series of dots it's leaving behind.

They are flags.

I plant one every time I stop to fix tires and F5 the game.

Edited by Martian Emigrant
Typo
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Heya @Claw , few questions if possible.

Firstly: is it still in the spirit of the challenge to build a lock or canal (a la Panama Canal) utilizing Kerbal Konstructs (assuming it is possible) to be able to complete a water-based circumnavigation properly?  If not, I'll end up having to build some massive crawlers to transport my ships at some points, which will not be kind to physics :\

Secondly: is it still in the spirit of the challenge to complete secondary objectives along the way?  For example, one of my ideas was to use a research/science ship to circumnavigate with, and before setting off, accept a bunch of science-gathering contracts from KSC, to be completed at intervals along the journey.  Since some would likely involve airborne tests, I planned on utilizing EPL (Extra-Planetary Launchpads) to be able to manufacture sounding rockets and other science vehicles to complete the contracts.  Since it would be a Research mission, we would recover and recycle all used materials and debris to avoid polluting Kerbin itself.  My other idea was a bit different: it would include BDArmory, and involve a small fleet of ships cruising Kerbins water in a circumnavigation, fighting and defeating groups of hostile ships and shore batteries along the way.  I imagine of these two, the Research vessel would be more appropriate, but I'm not sure, which is why I ask.  Both of these ideas, by the way, would be done in a "no quickload, no revert" career game.  The last idea was to combine the two: having a Battle Fleet (3-5 ships) protecting a Research vessel as it completes contracts, which are conveniently guarded by hostiles.

These would all be heavily modded games, so it would, of course, fall into that category.

So, are any of these plans still within the spirit and scope of the challenge? :D

Edited by Slam_Jones
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4 hours ago, Martian Emigrant said:

I now know that the Sea-Speed Isn't good enough now. Doing 9.5 m/s.

On the other hand, with a seaworthy craft, you can lock in the course and do something else [1], as long as you have a halfway decent estimate of when you'll hit land. I was limping home at 12 m/s after losing one engine before my final sea leg, but with plenty of life support supplies and good electricity management, who cared?

That's an interesting craft. Practically roll-proof, although I daresay it'll be a nuisance getting it to other planets if you ever want to. (I did experiment with a variant of mine that undocked the side engine units to stow them line astern for transport, but it wobbled like the wobbliest wobbly thing ever).

[1] I know it is at least an odd attitude to videogaming that feels I am clearly playing KSP when I've done this but that it would be cheating to time accelerate, but such is life.

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