[WIP] Real Scale Boosters

[NecroBones]

 

The 5m DCSS is underway. It's still missing a lot of stuff, such as hydrazine and helium canisters, attitude thrusters, and of course an engine to attach to it.

 

[NecroBones]

I was looking at some other mods out there, and I noticed there are two pretty good looking SLS mods available:

* Spice Launch System

* Space Launch System Part Pack

 

Both look like they're aimed at realistic scale. So I may save SLS for a much later date for this pack.

 

I also looked at the "LazTek SpaceX Launch, Exploration, Colonial Transporter & Historic mods" since it has some pretty nice SpaceX parts. I'm not completely sure, but it looks like those are at a slightly reduced scale. I think the Falcon 9.1 is supposed to be about 3.66m in diameter, but these looked a little thinner. I may defer the SpaceX rockets too, but we'll see.

 

For now, I think after I get the Delta IV family working pretty well, I'll probably look at the STS SRBs and Atlas V in the near term. But again, we'll see. As with everything, I tend to go where my enthusiasm leads (and in this case available data as well).

[Kartoffelkuchen]

1 hour ago, NecroBones said:

I was looking at some other mods out there, and I noticed there are two pretty good looking SLS mods available:

* Spice Launch System

* Space Launch System Part Pack

 

Both look like they're aimed at realistic scale. So I may save SLS for a much later date for this pack.

 

I also looked at the "LazTek SpaceX Launch, Exploration, Colonial Transporter & Historic mods" since it has some pretty nice SpaceX parts. I'm not completely sure, but it looks like those are at a slightly reduced scale. I think the Falcon 9.1 is supposed to be about 3.66m in diameter, but these looked a little thinner. I may defer the SpaceX rockets too, but we'll see.

 

For now, I think after I get the Delta IV family working pretty well, I'll probably look at the STS SRBs and Atlas V in the near term. But again, we'll see. As with everything, I tend to go where my enthusiasm leads (and in this case available data as well).

I have SpaceX stuff too! http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/71323-launchers-pack-spacex-lvp-21/&page=1

Yes yes I go already...

[NecroBones]

3 hours ago, Kartoffelkuchen said:

I have SpaceX stuff too! http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/71323-launchers-pack-spacex-lvp-21/&page=1

Yes yes I go already...

Cool, I didn't know about that one.

[Guest]

15 hours ago, NecroBones said:

 

Yes, that'll come in handy. Thanks!

No problem. 

[NecroBones]

Beauty shot!

[VenomousRequiem]

1 minute ago, NecroBones said:

Beauty shot!

I... really like that tbh. You're a wizard, friend! Remember, if you need any testers, I love RSS and I love your mods!

[Gaarst]

2 minutes ago, VenomousRequiem said:

I... really like that tbh. You're a wizard, friend! Remember, if you need any testers, I love RSS and I love your mods!

@NecroBones, I can test too !

[BetaguyGZT]

Wow. @NecroBones, you're really cutting metal now!   Can't wait to give it a spin when you've got it all set and ready to go.

To be honest, I've been favoring RSS-geared stuff lately, so this is right up my alley -- thank you for your dedication to the REAL. 

[NecroBones]

16 hours ago, VenomousRequiem said:

I... really like that tbh. You're a wizard, friend! Remember, if you need any testers, I love RSS and I love your mods!

 

16 hours ago, Gaarst said:

@NecroBones, I can test too !

 

10 hours ago, BetaguyGZT said:

Wow. @NecroBones, you're really cutting metal now!   Can't wait to give it a spin when you've got it all set and ready to go.

To be honest, I've been favoring RSS-geared stuff lately, so this is right up my alley -- thank you for your dedication to the REAL. 

 

Glad you guys like it! Yeah, I want to get a test copy out before too long, though I'm tempted to complete one or two more sets first. Delta IV isn't quite ready since it needs fairing bases (I'm testing with SpaceY right now), and I still need to make the 4m variants of the decoupler and DCSS.  The good news is that the 4m versions can mostly be modifications from the 5m parts I just made, so they won't take as long.

 

On a separate note, I'm thinking that I'm going to "cheat" on the RCS thrust for these. Real world RCS tends to be much lower thrust than what we're used to in KSP. Using the real numbers makes maneuvering in the game quite hard, and it's almost useless for stopping a rotation left over from SAS wobble. The Saturn S-IVB APS thrusters are supposed to be around 0.67 kN (as opposed to the stock RCS block's 1 kN), and the Delta IV 5m DCSS's ACS has thrust that is less than 0.05 kN. Right now I have those set to 1.5 and 1 respectively. Even though that's more than 20x normal for the DCSS, at least it's closer to stock for gameplay purposes and won't leave you wondering whether RCS is even working. I also have no idea how much Hydrazine the DCSS i supposed to have, so I'm just throwing on something like 20 units of Monoprop for now.

 

[Joco223]

Great mod mate! Can it be used in ksp 64k or will it be too powerfull for 64k? Dem models thou

[VenomousRequiem]

2 minutes ago, Joco223 said:

Great mod mate! Can it be used in ksp 64k or will it be too powerfull for 64k? Dem models thou

They're meant for RSS so it'll probably be a little much. :b

[Joco223]

1 minute ago, VenomousRequiem said:

They're meant for RSS so it'll probably be a little much. :b

Probably. But hey @NecroBones when you finish this, could you make a resized version of these parts so you can use them in other scales other than RSS?

[NecroBones]

31 minutes ago, Joco223 said:

Great mod mate! Can it be used in ksp 64k or will it be too powerfull for 64k? Dem models thou

 

28 minutes ago, VenomousRequiem said:

They're meant for RSS so it'll probably be a little much. :b

 

26 minutes ago, Joco223 said:

Probably. But hey @NecroBones when you finish this, could you make a resized version of these parts so you can use them in other scales other than RSS?

 

For 64k they'd have a higher payload mass fraction than in RSS, I'm sure, but they would certainly seem overpowered if everything else you're using has stock balance. I think for other scales, all that would probably be needed would be a config for ModuleManager to change all of the fuel capacities, dry masses, ISPs, etc. I don't think they'd necessarily need a physical resizing, but rather balance changes to make them match. Unless you just really don't want 5m-10m boosters.

[Joco223]

13 minutes ago, NecroBones said:

 

 

 

For 64k they'd have a higher payload mass fraction than in RSS, I'm sure, but they would certainly seem overpowered if everything else you're using has stock balance. I think for other scales, all that would probably be needed would be a config for ModuleManager to change all of the fuel capacities, dry masses, ISPs, etc. I don't think they'd necessarily need a physical resizing, but rather balance changes to make them match. Unless you just really don't want 5m-10m boosters.

Im using SMURFF in 64k but still, they would be a bit cheaty since they are made for RSS, and to make config for them seems a bit too much work for me since i don't really know how to make .cfg and i'll just probably use them in RSS

[MrMeeb]

30 minutes ago, NecroBones said:

 

 

 

For 64k they'd have a higher payload mass fraction than in RSS, I'm sure, but they would certainly seem overpowered if everything else you're using has stock balance. I think for other scales, all that would probably be needed would be a config for ModuleManager to change all of the fuel capacities, dry masses, ISPs, etc. I don't think they'd necessarily need a physical resizing, but rather balance changes to make them match. Unless you just really don't want 5m-10m boosters.

Realistically, they would be the most *realistic* in 64k if they are rescaled to KSP-esque sizing, based on the fact that KSP parts around about 64% of their real size equivalents, and so are a more accurate scale in 64k...if that makes sense :3

[Phineas Freak]

5 hours ago, NecroBones said:

On a separate note, I'm thinking that I'm going to "cheat" on the RCS thrust for these. Real world RCS tends to be much lower thrust than what we're used to in KSP. Using the real numbers makes maneuvering in the game quite hard, and it's almost useless for stopping a rotation left over from SAS wobble. The Saturn S-IVB APS thrusters are supposed to be around 0.67 kN (as opposed to the stock RCS block's 1 kN), and the Delta IV 5m DCSS's ACS has thrust that is less than 0.05 kN. Right now I have those set to 1.5 and 1 respectively. Even though that's more than 20x normal for the DCSS, at least it's closer to stock for gameplay purposes and won't leave you wondering whether RCS is even working. I also have no idea how much Hydrazine the DCSS i supposed to have, so I'm just throwing on something like 20 units of Monoprop for now.

Real life always has the time and patience to maneuver a ~25 metric tonne stage .

Balancing the DCSS's for ACS propellant and electricity could be done by following the standard life expectancy of them (2.5 h for the baseline LEO/GTO, around 7 for the GEO).

[FawkesF]

So where can i download?

[VenomousRequiem]

22 minutes ago, FawkesF said:

So where can i download?

It hasn't been released yet. Alpha or otherwise. 

[NecroBones]

Yeah, I still haven't decided how much to add before getting a test copy out. At this point the Saturn family, and Delta IV family are pretty functional, but I'm still sorting out their tech tree assignments. That part is starting to make my head spin, since I'm trying to get it to defer to Community Tech Tree preferentially, and SpaceY if it's there but not CTT, or use its own additional nodes if neither is present. The MM rules start to get a little complicated. I'm going to think about whether I can simplify this.

 

In the meantime, some screenies of the Delta IV upper stages. The engine's skirt extension is retractable to make it fit in the interstage. The 5m model is a good meter longer than the 4m when you include the tank bulge at the front, but just looking at the top attachment rims they look really similar in size:

 

 

The 4m DCSS with fairing base on the front of it:

[Felbourn]

It would be fan-friggin-ultra-tastic if the parts were like this:

because then I could use this in RSS for realism where the two tanks get different fuels (and more realistic CoM balance). The red node_stack_interstage can be what the node_stack_top decoupler of the lower core attaches to for separation. (Or if you want to go HOG WILD! then break the tanks apart from their trusses. If they are at least separate models, even if those models are combined for Stock parts via two MODEL sections in the same PART file, it would allow me to use a MODEL section in two PARTs to separate them myself.)

[legoclone09]

3 minutes ago, Felbourn said:

It would be fan-friggin-ultra-tastic if the parts were like this:

because then I could use this in RSS for realism where the two tanks get different fuels (and more realistic CoM balance). The red node_stack_interstage can be what the node_stack_top decoupler of the lower core attaches to for separation. (Or if you want to go HOG WILD! then break the tanks apart from their trusses. If they are at least separate models, even if those models are combined for Stock parts via two MODEL sections in the same PART file, it would allow me to use a MODEL section in two PARTs to separate them myself.)

Great idea Bob! It would also allow for nice fictional ships that I would make!

[NecroBones]

4 minutes ago, Felbourn said:

It would be fan-friggin-ultra-tastic if the parts were like this:

because then I could use this in RSS for realism where the two tanks get different fuels (and more realistic CoM balance). The red node_stack_interstage can be what the node_stack_top decoupler of the lower core attaches to for separation. (Or if you want to go HOG WILD! then break the tanks apart from their trusses. If they are at least separate models, even if those models are combined for Stock parts via two MODEL sections in the same PART file, it would allow me to use a MODEL section in two PARTs to separate them myself.)

 

That's almost how it works now. The tanks are one part, so there's no joints between the red and blue sections. The red "node_stack_interstage" is where the "hidden" attachment node is for attaching the interstage decoupler/fairing. Splitting it out into two models to let people hack on it would be pretty doable though. It just adds draw calls, but they're a lot less performance-expensive than having additional physics joints. I'm trying to keep joints to a minimum, and so far that's working-- The rockets have been pretty solid with stock joint strength.

 

[Felbourn]

Yea the best benefit of the separated models is for modding your mod.    I think your "basic release" should be combined parts for the reasons you stated, AND because it's easier for users to understand how it all fits together who don't want to assemble 15,000 parts to get it working. It's even arguable whether the engine needs to be separate in the basic release. Technically nothing stops the tanks and engine and RCS and RESOURCEs and all that from all being one PART file since in my experience it's only staging via spacebar (and not wanting action groups to make things work at a basic level) that limits what can be combined. But if the tanks and truss and engine and RCS were separate MODELs in the PART then oh how joyous it makes things for a modder of mods like me!

[Norcalplanner]

Just wanted to drop a note to say... WOW!

NB, I've always enjoyed your mods thoroughly, and recommend them frequently to others.  This is definitely kicking things up a notch.  Thanks again for all the hard work you put into your mods.  It shows.