[WIP] Coatl Aerospace ProbesPlus Dev Thread [Beta] 10/19/2020 (1.8-1.10)

[akron]

50 minutes ago, Stone Blue said:

@akron, Congratulations on making the SpaceDock "Featured Mods" list!...
 

Thank you! That's pretty cool.

Question: Are you guys seeing multiple science results for the different instruments? I wrote results for space, then low and high orbit and couple of experiments have multiples entries on each. Are you guys seeing those? It seem like I always get the same one whenever I run them. Just wondering.

I plan to do another Twitch Dev stream session this Friday evening around 7pm EST. I'll work on whatever you guys want to see. I can do some modeling or texturing if you guys want to see how I do those with some tutorial-like tips, like last time. If there are no requests I will be working on the Pioneer 10/11 dish and a secret project I should have finished a while ago. I may also do some testing in-game or play career mode.

~Cheers

Edited June 15, 2016 by akron

[drtedastro]

Great looking parts and mod.

Congrat's...

Looking forward to your upcoming 'rover' stuff, happy to do testing for you if needed.

Cheers.

[Jimbodiah]

Hubble?

[akron]

51 minutes ago, drtedastro said:

Great looking parts and mod.

Congrat's...

Looking forward to your upcoming 'rover' stuff, happy to do testing for you if needed.

Cheers.

Awesome, thanks! I would love help testing! The latest version of stuff will always be pushed to Github. I don't have any "internal" test groups.

22 minutes ago, Jimbodiah said:

Hubble?

I'd be all over this, but I think I would rather refer you to the Cacteye Optics mod which has special functionality for telescopes. It looks like it was just recently updated by @icedown! For other telescope functions, also check out Tarsier Space Tech by @JPLRepo. These two mods do much more than what I'd be able to do with Hubble since they add actual functioning telescopes. I could do models with compatibility with their stuff but I don't want to step on their work.

I do have plans to do some Hubble Mk.I "roller" style solar panels though.

[rasta013]

3 hours ago, akron said:

That being said, do you have a suggestion for a proposed mission(s)?

Actually for something unique to add I'd consider taking a look at the A.C.E. mission.  This would allow a few new science instruments dedicated for a use that few experiments are aimed at - working on the sun.  The probe itself is not really all that sexy but the mission would be unique as most probes are destined for planets, not the sun itself.  This also would serve as a kind of intermediate mission type probe that could be launched before planetary missions could be completed as just getting away from Kerbin is much easier.

Advanced Composition Explorer (ACE) Mission Homepage

To expand on this idea for a specialized solar probe, science packages from things like IBEX, HINODE-b and IRIS (among many others) could also be added in.  Basically the idea is an ACE type mission but with experiment packages garnered from several other probes to expand this idea for KSP since we can't really do any kind of long term observational science but with the goal of building an early-intermediate probe with experiments meant to be run in solar orbit (high an low if possible).

[Jimbodiah]

27 minutes ago, akron said:

I'd be all over this, but I think I would rather refer you to the Cacteye Optics mod which has special functionality for telescopes. It looks like it was just recently updated by @icedown! For other telescope functions, also check out Tarsier Space Tech by @JPLRepo. These two mods do much more than what I'd be able to do with Hubble since they add actual functioning telescopes. I could do models with compatibility with their stuff but I don't want to step on their work.

I do have plans to do some Hubble Mk.I "roller" style solar panels though.

I have Cacteye, but am just looking for real looking probes. I know RaiderNick has an awesome US Probes pack, but no one has done the hubble that I know of.

[Cheesecake]

Quote

I have Cacteye, but am just looking for real looking probes. I know RaiderNick has an awesome US Probes pack, but no one has done the hubble that I know of.

Lionhead Aerospace had an Replica of Hubble. Zeus telescope.

Here are Pics, last used in KSP 1.0.4:

 

 

 

 

[CobaltWolf]

Bouncing off @rasta013's idea, since you already plan on redoing the KDEX mod, you could also perhaps look into redoing the parts from Solar Science:

 

[Jeb1969]

23 hours ago, akron said:

Wow, such a detailed response! I obviously have much, much more research to do to fully understand all the engineering and science behind a lot of these instruments. I think "Mass Spectrometer" might have been a misnomer and just "spectrometer" should be used in this case, but I didn't catch it

I often cannot differentiate a lot of the different spectrum instruments right away. Diffractometer, radiometer, and spectrometer get very jumbled sometimes and I might just barely know the difference after some reading. I am trying to appeal to a more simplified selection of scientific instruments so long as I don't make any contradictions or glaring science errors. Though I am sure more knowledgeable players may want something more detailed, I think it will be more manageable to have just one X-Ray experiment, one Infrared, and so on. Given the difference in the way data is analyzed, a surface-based and an orbital one may be needed at times, but I don't see a need for more for gameplay reasons.

Thank you for the info!

Well in that case I might as well rename my proposed Microwave experiment to just "Microwave Spectrometer," now that I got that off my chest I'll give you my details about this proposed X-ray experiment. The X-ray experiment works in much the same way of DMagic's experiment, the only difference is that the device is smaller, and is designed to not take up as much space on a probe core (if mounted radially) because after all the most important thing in probes besides adequate Delta-V and electrical power is space  (some pun intended. )

[akron]

1 hour ago, rasta013 said:

Actually for something unique to add I'd consider taking a look at the A.C.E. mission.  This would allow a few new science instruments dedicated for a use that few experiments are aimed at - working on the sun.  The probe itself is not really all that sexy but the mission would be unique as most probes are destined for planets, not the sun itself.  This also would serve as a kind of intermediate mission type probe that could be launched before planetary missions could be completed as just getting away from Kerbin is much easier.

Advanced Composition Explorer (ACE) Mission Homepage

To expand on this idea for a specialized solar probe, science packages from things like IBEX, HINODE-b and IRIS (among many others) could also be added in.  Basically the idea is an ACE type mission but with experiment packages garnered from several other probes to expand this idea for KSP since we can't really do any kind of long term observational science but with the goal of building an early-intermediate probe with experiments meant to be run in solar orbit (high an low if possible).

35 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Bouncing off @rasta013's idea, since you already plan on redoing the KDEX mod, you could also perhaps look into redoing the parts from Solar Science:

Good ideas here!  ACE looks like it is built on a Mariner bus. I can always use newer designs for those older instruments. Survey missions can be done by using contracts and Contract Configurator. If I figure those out, I can created some. I was also thinking if biomes can be added to the sun so I can have experiments for the poles and sunspots or something like that. Just brainstorming here. Solar Science looks interesting and has an open license as well. I just have to see what that DLL does and how it affects the experiments. I don't think I am ready for custom code just yet.

1 hour ago, Jimbodiah said:

I have Cacteye, but am just looking for real looking probes. I know RaiderNick has an awesome US Probes pack, but no one has done the hubble that I know of.

1 hour ago, Cheesecake said:

Lionhead Aerospace had an Replica of Hubble. Zeus telescope.

Here are Pics, last used in KSP 1.0.4

*sniposaurus*

Great. I think Lionhead's looks great but it might be too realistic, not so close to stock art. Let me look into the possibility of some new models for Cacteye with functionality for it.

19 minutes ago, Jeb1969 said:

Well in that case I might as well rename my proposed Microwave experiment to just "Microwave Spectrometer," now that I got that off my chest I'll give you my details about this proposed X-ray experiment. The X-ray experiment works in much the same way of DMagic's experiment, the only difference is that the device is smaller, and is designed to not take up as much space on a probe core (if mounted radially) because after all the most important thing in probes besides adequate Delta-V and electrical power is space  (some pun intended. )

Okay! If you can find some sample X-Ray experiments, I can see how they can be made into one. I don't have anything right now doing science in that wavelength . I do hope to add another design challenge (I just don't know how) and that's operational temperature. Essentially, I want parts to have an operational temperature so you HAVE to protect your probes in the extreme heats near Moho and cold near Eeloo. Nothing too complex or difficult, but we need more heating concerns beyond just atmospheric entry and long engine burns. I'd like parts to fail if the probes cannot handle temperature changes, like when going in and out of the night side of planets. Radiation damage would be nice too, but that's pushing into RSS/realism territory

[CobaltWolf]

2 minutes ago, akron said:

Solar Science looks interesting and has an open license as well. I just have to see what that DLL does and how it affects the experiments. I don't think I am ready for custom code just yet.

It basically controls where in orbit around the sun you have to be for the experiments to work. Perhaps @Jso could open it for us, at least to see how messy it is? 

How would one get new biomes on the sun? Does it have a biome map?

[Jeb1969]

1 hour ago, akron said:

 

Okay! If you can find some sample X-Ray experiments, I can see how they can be made into one. I don't have anything right now doing science in that wavelength . I do hope to add another design challenge (I just don't know how) and that's operational temperature. Essentially, I want parts to have an operational temperature so you HAVE to protect your probes in the extreme heats near Moho and cold near Eeloo. Nothing too complex or difficult, but we need more heating concerns beyond just atmospheric entry and long engine burns. I'd like parts to fail if the probes cannot handle temperature changes, like when going in and out of the night side of planets. Radiation damage would be nice too, but that's pushing into RSS/realism territory

I was thinking something in the lines of an Alpha Particle X-ray spectrometer. Not unlike those used by the Mars Pathfinder or Curiosity. 

[Table]

Hmm, NASA is planning to launch the Solar Probe Plus in 2018, maybe make some parts for a sun probe? Like the Helios 1 & 2

[akron]

12 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

It basically controls where in orbit around the sun you have to be for the experiments to work. Perhaps @Jso could open it for us, at least to see how messy it is? 

How would one get new biomes on the sun? Does it have a biome map?

That might work! Although it may need some tweaks to *fully* work with KSP 1.1 (I read it does work though, by with errors). I don't think the Sun has biomes, but if it works like any other planet, maybe they can be added.

10 hours ago, Jeb1969 said:

I was thinking something in the lines of an Alpha Particle X-ray spectrometer. Not unlike those used by the Mars Pathfinder or Curiosity. 

Cool! I couldn't find an orbital planetary X-Ray spec (Just X-Ray telescopes) so this may be something for the Ground Ops pack

9 hours ago, Table said:

Hmm, NASA is planning to launch the Solar Probe Plus in 2018, maybe make some parts for a sun probe? Like the Helios 1 & 2

Indeed. It looks like I have plenty of things to take a look at for the next science patch!

 

Update

So, yay! BETA 13 released and was well received! I am thrilled as I did not expect it. I'm happy to see my parts being used already! This means that I couldn't chill after the release and want to keep momentum going straight into BETA 14. I've been looking at more and more propulsion parts to find some that would "make sense" for my mod. It's hard to find good reference on probe propulsion because the little engines aren't as popular as rocket engines. I did have some sketches I drew alongside with my RCS plan, so I started there. Here is the "small" RCS system. These are tiny, I forgot to put something next to them for reference. The foil parts are just "covers" for the back of the nozzles. You won't see it when you attach these. Do you guys think the RST assembly should be tied to RCS? Or should they be small monoprop engines? Anyway, I'll take in-game screenshots when I get them working, they are not done so no Github push today. I will finish these Thursday or maybe Friday during my stream.

Feedback welcomed, as always.

~Cheers

Edited June 16, 2016 by akron

[Jso]

22 minutes ago, akron said:

That might work! Although it may need some tweaks to *fully* work with KSP 1.1 (I read it does work though, by with errors). I don't think the Sun has biomes, but if it works like any other planet, maybe they can be added.

All it does is check that your inside 10 million km from the sun before running the experiment. (Kerbin's at 13.6 million).

[SpaceBadger007]

2 hours ago, akron said:

 

Just...plain...awesome!!!!!! Keep up the FANTASTIC work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Virtualgenius]

I love these just fantastic really really good cant wait you should make two variants LFO and Mono prop that way you please everyone you could add a colour strip to identify the diffrent engines

[akron]

34 minutes ago, Virtualgenius said:

I love these just fantastic really really good cant wait you should make two variants LFO and Mono prop that way you please everyone you could add a colour strip to identify the diffrent engines

Thanks, guys!

These three are tiny!!!! I do not know of any production LF/O systems this small. I am going to leave these first three as MP only. I just don't know how I am going to configure the RST one just yet. I have something else planned for LF/O parts, which will be a little bigger.

Here is a quick test I did. Still not done, maybe tonight. That's a stock OKTO, for comparison

Edited June 16, 2016 by akron

[Jso]

2 hours ago, akron said:

I just don't know how I am going to configure the RST one just yet.

As rcs please. You don't really gain anything making them engines.

[akron]

37 minutes ago, Jso said:

As rcs please. You don't really gain anything making them engines.

I may be useful to have throttle control on those, like the stock O-10 Puff engine. The can then be used as OMS or course-correction engines

[CobaltWolf]

You can do that with RCS now. It's a tweakable in the VAB.

[rasta013]

On 6/15/2016 at 2:22 PM, akron said:

If you can find some sample X-Ray experiments, I can see how they can be made into one.

My 2 cents thrown in here...

Most x-ray experiments tend to be of the observational/imaging type because capturing x-rays is so damnably difficult.  X-ray spectroscopy is generally not carried out in space because the material quantities needed to analyze something in an x-ray spectrometer just can't be easily accumulated.  This is why you tend to find them in ground ops but space based is mostly observational only as experimental is just not really feasible.  That said however...I did some digging for you because I got curious myself.  Here's a selection of space based instruments that are/were being used for various forms of x-ray science including some spectroscopy.

Spoiler

GOES-R Series
Extreme Ultraviolet and X-ray Irradiance Sensors (EXIS)
While not a spectrometer this irradiance sensor was specifically geared towards doing x-ray solar science and its interaction with the atmosphere

HETE-2
Wide Field X-Ray Monitor (WXM)
Soft X-Ray Camera (SXC)
Really more observational than experimental but these instruments gave some great data on the local x-ray environment

ASTRO-H (Hitomi)
Soft X-Ray Spectroscopy System (SXS)
X-Ray Calorimeter Spectrometer (XCS)
The combination of these two instruments on the back end of the Hitomi's x-ray detectors provided most of the science data obtained from the observational data built by Hitomi.  This is the closest analogy in the real world to a space based "specifically designed to study x-rays spectrometer."

Ulysses
HUS/GRB

RHESSI
The 9 RMCs that make up the imager
While this is functionally similar to a telescope, the colimated and adjustable RMCs made a very compact and unique way of doing x-ray observational science as the detection range could be adjusted and manipulated to provide control levels for various experiments.

Van Allen Probes
Relativistic Proton Spectrometer (RPS)
Technically this instrument was designed as a high energy spectrometer to work in the x-ray and gamma ray regions of the spectrum but realistically provided mainly observational studies only but still, it was technically an space based x-ray spectrometer.

NuSTAR
Nuclear Spectroscopic Telescope Array
Ok, yes this is technically a telescope but the NuSTAR imager is too cool to leave off this list and since it is a spectroscope itself...an extending truss which has collimated detectors spread all along its 10m length just seems like it could be converted into some kind of neat kerbalized science experiment.

 

7 hours ago, akron said:

The can then be used as OMS or course-correction engines

 

6 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

You can do that with RCS now. It's a tweakable in the VAB.

I personally like the idea of making them thrusters and not RCS also.  While the tweakable does exist for RCS that's not throttle controlled propulsion as any other thruster would be.

[Deimos Rast]

Jumping into a conversation without looking both ways or reading anything.............*plop*

Or you could do both. Make it an engine that has both RCS thrusters off the side and a throttled controlled engine proper. RCS thrusters could/would run on LFO. Example would be the SXT "LV-405 "Vanguard" Liquid Fuel Engine".

Alternatively, you could just make it an RCS thruster that functions as an engine (power/transform) but has RCS controls. Example would be the USI "Mass Driver (1.25m RCS)".

Or you could just make a run of the mill RCS thruster...but give it custom exhaust FX (see the Mass Driver for an example, but it's the snippet below). I've only seen that done once, ever, so I'm pretty sure it's some secret RoverDude voodoo, which I now pass on to you (actually I just posted it in Add-On development since apparently no one else has)

Not sure if you're going for a specific engine analogue, I'm just saying what I've seen.

 

		name = ModuleRCS
		thrusterTransformName = RCSTransform
		thrusterPower = 1
		fxPrefabName = fx_exhaustFlame_blue_small

 

[rasta013]

2 hours ago, Deimos Rast said:

Or you could do both.

@NecroBones Did something like this for two of his heavy duty RCS units in his SpaceY mod.  They are RCS units with super strong output for controlling large craft but also have monoprop driven engines that basically serve as the aft ports for the RCS unit.  Really a rather neat solution and that would be even better than one or the other.

[akron]

Thanks guys! I somehow thought that I could only use one of the modules, not thinking that I could use two modules and assign them both the same transforms. I'm thinking about dividing the nozzles so that it fires one when in RCS translate mode, and all three when used as a MP engine.

I was unable to do any computer work yesterday, so these will be finished tonight instead.

~Cheers