[1.3.0] Kerbalism v1.2.9

[Box of Stardust]

29 minutes ago, Stage said:

Hi!

Congrats on your mod ShotgunNinja, it looks quite promising and I would love to use it in my ksp-install.

I have a suggestion regarding mod-compatability: would it be possible for you to make your mod modular?
Like every feature is in its own module, and you can enable/disable them via config and/or GUI. This would solve the compatability problems with other mods (besides resources) and gives us player the chance to choose, what content of your mod we want to have active at the moment and what not.

Looking forward to your updates,

Cheers!

He has already mentioned that modularity is (currently) not possible (first few pages of the thread). Whether or not that remains the case, remains to be seen, but I'd say it's not too likely. However, compatibility with other mods in an installation is being worked on.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Box of Stardust

[lude]

Could you add a patch that gives entertainment factor to all crewable parts that have "copula" in their name?

 

also how to satisfy the antenna need? I got an omni one patched for RT that isn't recognized as one, does it need to be a non RT one?

Edited April 24, 2016 by lude

[Werwolf]

ShotgunNinja.... man. Where do I start.


First of all, this mod is officially number ONE on my MUST HAVES before starting a career. Number two being Mechjeb. It's that important.

I am absolutely blown away by this mod... its pretty much everything I wanted, and have been trying to piece together via several different mods, until now. THANK YOU SO MUCH!

[Nansuchao]

52 minutes ago, lude said:

Could you add a patch that gives entertainment factor to all crewable parts that have "copula" in their name?

 

also how to satisfy the antenna need? I got an omni one patched for RT that isn't recognized as one, does it need to be a non RT one?

At the moment just the stock antennas are supported. By the way, you'll find the way to add all the RT antennas to kerbalism in the wiki

[lude]

1 hour ago, Nansuchao said:

At the moment just the stock antennas are supported. By the way, you'll find the way to add all the RT antennas to kerbalism in the wiki

I'll try that

did this mod add kerbals dancing IVA when returning home? if so that's kinda cool (could be the shaky camera tho, but i swear they're dancing all the way through that very long aero break)

 

[EXC 23:57:53.686] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

    KERBALISM.Lib.IsVessel (.Vessel v)
    KERBALISM.Signal.BuildAntennas ()
    KERBALISM.Signal.Update ()

could this be due to RT?

can't leave vab anymore nor launch rocket

Edited April 24, 2016 by lude

[lajoswinkler]

I am considering this mod to be the next life support mod for my Kron missions. The concept is something I always wanted, and would include into stock game as hard mode.

[RedParadize]

Wonderfull mod! Its clean, easy to understand and to work with.

I have only one request, a config file to tweak consumption rate, radiation multiplyer etc...

great work!

 

[Skipperro]

10 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

So! How much does a Kerbal breathe, by mass?

Assume Kerbals = humans. Assume Kerbin day = Earth Day (divide the mass by four if Kerbin hours = Earth hours)

Humans consume about 550 liters of oxygen per day (http://health.howstuffworks.com/human-body/systems/respiratory/question98.htm). Now add something for exercise and fudge factor, perhaps 25-30%, for a total of ~750 liters. Assuming this oxygen is breathed in at standard temperature and pressure (25 C, 1 atmosphere), each liter has a mass of 1.429 g (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen), for a mass of 1.073 kg of oxygen consumed/human person/earth day. Tank weight is additional, but this is already accounted for in the mass of parts.

 

EDIT: Kerbin hours have to be equal to Earth hours, because they still contain 3600 seconds, and I assume that the meaning of a "second" or a "meter per second" hasn't changed. So divide my masses above and here by (24 Earth hours / 6 Kerbin hours = 4) for an estimated consumption of 0.6 kg of food and drink, and 0.26 kg of oxygen per (human-type) kerbal, per Kerbin day.

Yes, your calculations are correct. We've come up with roughly the same amount of food (I haven't counted drinks), but I've read oxygen mass in kg instead of mg, so my mistake. Kerbal need about 0.2 kg of oxygen per Kerbin-Day (6h) or more if they work hard. So oxygen in Kerbalism is about 40-50 times to heavy.

[Box of Stardust]

While I have nothing against the mod as to how it's being developed, and there's pluses to not needing reliance on other mods, I'm just curious if you considered Background Processing during the development of this. 

[Rhedd]

I'd love to give this a good try, but I can't seem to get the vessel info window to open by right-clicking the craft in the monitor. Without that, It's pretty hard to figure out what's going on.

[Nansuchao]

9 minutes ago, Box of Stardust said:

While I have nothing against the mod as to how it's being developed, and there's pluses to not needing reliance on other mods, I'm just curious if you considered Background Processing during the development of this. 

If you read the OP, you'll notice that ShotgunNinja had inspiration from Background Processing for his own BP inside Kerbalism.

[Jeb-head-mug kerman]

Nice!

[MisterFister]

16 hours ago, ShotgunNinja said:

 

@MisterFister, @RoverDude I didn't realize the shared-resource problem at first, and I do want to play nice. These are the problems i have to solve:

• switch to CRP resources, adapt all containers to new densities, adapt all consumption rates to new densities
• find a way to do not break the savegames, maybe by scanning all existing vessels at first load time from old version and just scaling all capacity & amount of parts
• deal with the fact that my CO2 and Waste are massless, invisible pseudo-resources (and CRP are not)

@ShotgunNinja First off, I reiterate from my previous post that I recall that when TACLS moved over to metric units, savegames were simply broken, period.  Different era, different version of KSP, and with @RoverDude's reminder, it was the changeover that made CRP even possible.  It may or may not be avoidable here.  My only suggestion (my background is not in programming but IS in logistics deployment and "making lots of people happy with change when their default is to be unhappy with inconvenient changes") is to carefully announce the change ahead of time, and to accomplish as much with one save-breaking version rollout as possible to minimize the need for multiple save-breaking version changeovers.  In the alternative, design a little offboard ditty-utility designed to specifically modify saves.

As for the third bulletpoint, I've already said before that I am diehard TACLS.  Since TACLS might be going away... *shrug* I politely suggest that you either take that over and absorb it, or even replicate it within your own code.  No offense to @RoverDude, but the USI LS wasn't as satisfying an in-game challenge for me.  Which brings me to my point to you regarding mass.  To assign them as massless, in my mind, you're simply defaulting for waste products to be vented overboard.  When playing TACLS, I NEVER vented wastes overboard unless it was an absolute emergency.  My in-game justification was that I wanted the waste products to be returned home to KSC for biological and medical analysis of kerbonaut long term health exposure, as is the real case with ISS crew being rotated.  Maybe you should consider implementing something like that, wherein CO2 / SolidWaste / WasteWater could be returned to KSC for some sort of science value scaled to reflect the longevity of the exposure to space travel?  This is of course in addition to being able to recycle it into new Water / O2 / "mulch" or some equivalent, of course, but I'd care to prevent "waste science" from being collectible in a science lab -- this would ensure that a player couldn't just install the station crapper inside the science lab and somehow unlock the career tech tree by shipping up "productive" foods like burritos and asparagus.

Ultimately, I really do realize that I'm asking you to make your mod "just like TACLS" because I hate change and I love that mod so much.  In the alternative, could you consider making your internal functions toggleable?  From what I read, your mod overwrites some RemoteTech functionality that I also hold near and dear, as well.  Perhaps splitting your mod into an interrelated suite, like USI, would be a possibility?

[cicatrix]

Tech tree balance:

This is about pure gameplay experience - early career stages deny you from flying to Minmus. A command pod has food for 5 days and you only fly one-way 8 days. Finally I stacked two command pods resulting in food supply for 10 days and made Valentina starve for the rest of the return trip - she was very angry (but survived).

Suggestion - either move small food container to earlier tech node or create another food container with food  for 10 days. Really, Minmus should be available earlier in the game.

Same reason with antennaes. My current communotron has range only for 13 Mm and Minmus is... well, it's 45 Mm away. I can send a pilot there but can't send a probe until I progress further... and it's a slow going without science from Minmus.  

[Nansuchao]

That's weird. What kind of tech tree are you using? I have the avatar and I had no problem at all sending unmanned first and manned then missions to Mun and Minmus.

[cicatrix]

This is kind of difficult to tell, because I have several mods that mess with the tech tree. I guess this is the issue.

[Aristaeus]

35 minutes ago, cicatrix said:

Tech tree balance:

This is about pure gameplay experience - early career stages deny you from flying to Minmus. A command pod has food for 5 days and you only fly one-way 8 days. Finally I stacked two command pods resulting in food supply for 10 days and made Valentina starve for the rest of the return trip - she was very angry (but survived).

Suggestion - either move small food container to earlier tech node or create another food container with food  for 10 days. Really, Minmus should be available earlier in the game.

Same reason with antennaes. My current communotron has range only for 13 Mm and Minmus is... well, it's 45 Mm away. I can send a pilot there but can't send a probe until I progress further... and it's a slow going without science from Minmus.  

The first command pod can actually hold 10 days worth of food and oxygen. It's just got 5 days included by default. Right click and use the tweakable to increase the amount.

 

@ShotgunNinja, are you open to pull requests? I'm pretty time poor, but this is a fantastic mod and I'd love to help out by contributing a few MM configs and features bugs where I can.

[Awaras]

42 minutes ago, cicatrix said:

Tech tree balance:

This is about pure gameplay experience - early career stages deny you from flying to Minmus. A command pod has food for 5 days and you only fly one-way 8 days. Finally I stacked two command pods resulting in food supply for 10 days and made Valentina starve for the rest of the return trip - she was very angry (but survived).

Eight days? I am guessing you are using a standard hohmann transfer orbit where the Ap of your orbit matches the orbit of minmus? While that is the most fuel efficient transfer orbit it is far from the fastest. You can significantly reduce the travel time by spending just a few hundred more m/s of dV. Basically, when you get into kerbin orbit and allign your orbit with minmus as you normally do, et up a maneuver node that sends you on an escape trajectory from kerbins SOI and then move the maneuver node untill you get an intersection with minmus. You will need more fuel to brake into orbit once you get there, but you will get there much faster.

[Box of Stardust]

49 minutes ago, cicatrix said:

Tech tree balance:

This is about pure gameplay experience - early career stages deny you from flying to Minmus. A command pod has food for 5 days and you only fly one-way 8 days. Finally I stacked two command pods resulting in food supply for 10 days and made Valentina starve for the rest of the return trip - she was very angry (but survived).

Suggestion - either move small food container to earlier tech node or create another food container with food  for 10 days. Really, Minmus should be available earlier in the game.

Same reason with antennaes. My current communotron has range only for 13 Mm and Minmus is... well, it's 45 Mm away. I can send a pilot there but can't send a probe until I progress further... and it's a slow going without science from Minmus.  

I think small radial containers might work- would be good to be able to fit into a service bay too. 

Just need the assets for one or a few. 

[RoverDude]

1 hour ago, MisterFister said:

 Different era, different version of KSP, and with @RoverDude's reminder, it was the changeover that made CRP even possible. 

<snip>

No offense to @RoverDude, but the USI LS wasn't as satisfying an in-game challenge for me.  

While not related to this thread, just wanted to clear up two bits of misinformation.  CRP in no way was ever reliant on TAC-LS... it was it's own thing, and implying TAC-LS 'made CRP possible' is a bit of a head scratcher.  We just happen to include the TAC-LS resources as a courtesy, since everyone decided to standardize on those definitions for water, food, etc.  

Also - totally get that it is not your cup of tea, but USI-LS is just as deadly (if you so desire) as TAC-LS, and has other more interesting ways to have bad things happen to your Kerbals (i.e. habitation - and I believe Kerbalism has a similar mechanic).  Sorry, just have to debunk the 'TAC-LS is more challenging' bit.  Nothing personal, it's just something I hear a lot by folks who have not used USI-LS (or have not used it recently).

Now back to the thread in progress.

[MisterFister]

Just now, RoverDude said:

While not related to this thread, just wanted to clear up two bits of misinformation.  CRP in no way was ever reliant on TAC-LS... it was it's own thing, and implying TAC-LS 'made CRP possible' is a bit of a head scratcher.  We just happen to include the TAC-LS resources as a courtesy, since everyone decided to standardize on those definitions for water, food, etc.  

Also - totally get that it is not your cup of tea, but USI-LS is just as deadly (if you so desire) as TAC-LS, and has other more interesting ways to have bad things happen to your Kerbals (i.e. habitation - and I believe Kerbalism has a similar mechanic).  Sorry, just have to debunk the 'TAC-LS is more challenging' bit.  Nothing personal, it's just something I hear a lot by folks who have not used USI-LS (or have not used it recently).

Now back to the thread in progress.

"Made CRP possible" was poor word choice on my part.  "Happened around the same time," is what I was trying to say, and from what I remember as to forum chatter, yes, TAC's definition of the variables was a significant part of the discussion at the time.  I can't quote from that discussion verbatim of course, but it all happened around the same time in kerbaleering history.

And I'll formulate my USI-LS questions and ask them separately on your mod's thread. 

[Rhedd]

So nobody else has a problem opening the Vessel Info window by right-clicking its name in the Monitor? Am I doing something wrong?

[Nansuchao]

12 minutes ago, Rhedd said:

So nobody else has a problem opening the Vessel Info window by right-clicking its name in the Monitor? Am I doing something wrong?

Can you post a screen of your issue? In VAB or flight? For me the UI works flawlessly.

[Box of Stardust]

23 minutes ago, Rhedd said:

So nobody else has a problem opening the Vessel Info window by right-clicking its name in the Monitor? Am I doing something wrong?

Did you try left click?

[White Owl]

I'm putting together a MM config to add antennae from AIES and Origami mods. It occurs to me that in a modded solar system, there is a huge jump in antenna ranges when you go from near to far. Have you ever considered a medium range? Maybe make it half the distance to the farthest planet.