[1.3.0] Kerbalism v1.2.9

[SpaceOdissey]

ShotGunNinja? How you can enable the radiation belts of Kerbin?

[DavidHunter]

3 hours ago, SpaceOdissey said:

ShotGunNinja? How you can enable the radiation belts of Kerbin?

Press B when in the map view during flight or in the tracking station in order to display the magnetic fields of the body the map is focused on.

N.B. the belts are always on - they're just not always displayed. The B key toggles the display.

[Windspren]

Would it be safe to add this to an already existing save?

I currently only have about 8 kerbs in an LKO station, but a Duna Transfer Vehicle is in Kerbin orbit already, waiting to depart, and I don't know if it will be able to safely transport kerbals to Duna with the mod added.

Also, I don't want to break my save

[DavidHunter]

7 minutes ago, Laythe Dweller said:

Would it be safe to add this to an already existing save?

I currently only have about 8 kerbs in an LKO station, but a Duna Transfer Vehicle is in Kerbin orbit already, waiting to depart, and I don't know if it will be able to safely transport kerbals to Duna with the mod added.

Also, I don't want to break my save

No - you'll kill your Kerbals as they won't have life support on their craft.

[Windspren]

I guess I'll start a new save then, and Hyperedit stuff to orbit!

[podbaydoor]

On 2/25/2017 at 9:21 AM, blakemw said:

• All the data sometimes goes missing. I think it's related to docking. It has happened fairly often but I haven't managed to reliably reproduce it.

I can confirm this. Any docking seems to delete the data on both vessels. You can grab the data on EVA to get around this temporarily on manned missions.

[Rhedd]

@ShotgunNinja...

I like most of your new science system, but I miss experiments being able to transmit part of their data, storing the rest if they can be recovered. There are some great third-party parts, like one of BDB's cameras, that are built around this feature. That camera, for instance, has a primitive film scanner that sends back crappy images, but the actual film can still be recovered, yielding better results. This doesn't seem to be possible at all with your system. Is it? COULD it be?

I love the way your labs work, but couldn't it still work by having lab analysis slowly increase an experiment's xmitDataScalar towards 1, allowing complete data recovery from all experiments, even those that started at 0 like surface samples, but still allow for partially transmittable experiments?

I just hate to LOSE cool stuff while getting new cool stuff.

[ShotgunNinja]

On 2/22/2017 at 8:19 PM, schrema said:

You are welcome! I checked my game conf and it is set to 24h days. But I haven't expressed myself clearly. The hours are shown right, but especially in RSS the Kerbal year is used. One year is not 365 days, it is 426 days

I checked what the code is doing (this was stuff added long time ago...) and it use the homebody orbit period to determine the length of the year.

 

On 2/22/2017 at 11:17 PM, Zuthal said:

How would I go about putting together a profile to use with Sigma Dimensions rescale factor of 6.4? My main concerns are signal distance (as all distances will be 6.4x larger than in stock KSP) and anything time-related (as larger distances translate to much longer transit times). Additionally, I am not sure, but there might be issues with the magnetospheres, if their sizes are hardcoded and not based on the planet's size.

 

You only need to scale the antenna 'dist' property by 6.4, look in the support patch for RSS as an example how to do it.

The radiation fields are expressed in body radii, so they always scale automatically with the body radius.

 

On 2/23/2017 at 5:13 AM, klugeh01 said:

does Shielding reduce radiation coming from parts with the emitter module

Yes.

 

On 2/24/2017 at 5:57 PM, blakemw said:

How does the overall shielding combine to determine the radiation damage inflicted on Kerbals? Do 4 fully shielded hitchhiker cans provide more radiation protection than 1 fully shielded hitchhiker can? Do adding extra crewed compartments without shielding increase, decrease or not change the shielding? The critical question is: If there is only one fully-shielded module on an otherwise unshielded ship, does undocking that module during the storm increase or decrease radiation for the kerbals inside it?

 

It work like this: take all the parts with an enabled habitat module, sum their Shielding amount AND capacity, calculate the level of shielding as 'amount' divided by 'capacity', the result is how much radiation is blocked by shielding for that vessel.

 

 

 

[ShotgunNinja]

To: All the people with 'loss of control after eva bug'
I can't reproduce this bug for the life of mine. Can some of you guys that are experiencing this issue be so kind as to try to reproduce it only using MM + Kerbalism? Can you also try to reproduce it only using MechJeb (and dependencies)? Thank you.

 

To: All the people with 'science loss after docking bug'

If you attach a docking port using KIS, somehow the vessel science data is lost. I am aware, I'll find a fix for it. It is probably related to KIS creating a new vessel under the hood, or something similar. If the above doesn't apply in your situation (eg: you got science data lost after docking, and you are not using KIS) then please by all means send me the usual savegame/log.

 

On 2/26/2017 at 2:44 AM, Daniel Prates said:

 I have noted a weird interaction of Kerbalism with [...] some DMAGIC ORBITAL SCIENCE mod experiments, and [...] STATION SCIENCE.

I understand. Unfortunately, this 'replace the science system without anybody noticing' stunt didn't really work out as plain as I imagined. So consider it experimental.

 

On 2/26/2017 at 9:16 PM, insuriatus said:

Version 1.2.0 incorrectly considered to forecast energy consumption and Nitrogen. In 1.1.8 it was correct. Did anyone get this problem?

Can you elaborate?

 

On 2/26/2017 at 9:56 PM, geb said:

Is there a way to make [the resource cache] use the flow priority rules?

Yes, there is: I have to implement it .

 

[SpaceOdissey]

13 hours ago, DavidHunter said:

Press B when in the map view during flight or in the tracking station in order to display the magnetic fields of the body the map is focused on.

N.B. the belts are always on - they're just not always displayed. The B key toggles the display.

Thanks!

[ShotgunNinja]

On 2/27/2017 at 6:22 PM, geb said:

There's a fairly serious bug with kerbals going on EVA.

It's easy to recreate. Make a test craft that is just a Mk.1 Command Pod, go on EVA on the launchpad, and check the kerbalism life support/command panel for the craft your EVA kerbal just got out of. It displays an error instead of the life support and control status.

 

Ehm... that error you see is 'fake': it is made to look like a real kind of error, but is just here because the vessel in question ('Test Craft') has no connection and is not manned. Before the EVA, it was manned so that fake error message wasn't shown.

 

@CatastrophicFailure You got an extra '{' on line 2.

 

2 hours ago, Rhedd said:

I like most of your new science system, but I miss experiments being able to transmit part of their data, storing the rest if they can be recovered. There are some great third-party parts, like one of BDB's cameras, that are built around this feature. That camera, for instance, has a primitive film scanner that sends back crappy images, but the actual film can still be recovered, yielding better results. This doesn't seem to be possible at all with your system. Is it? COULD it be?

I separe experiments in two categories: 'data-producing' and 'sample-producing'. The distinction is made automatically from the 'xmitDataScalar' property of stock science experiments. If the property is less than 1.0 (even 0.99), I just consider the experiment 'sample-producing'.

 

Maybe I can make these experiments produce both data and samples, together, in proportion of xmitDataScalar. Example: an experiment has xmitDataScalar=0.9, it will produce 90% data and 10% samples on collection.

 

Could that improve the situation?

Edited March 3, 2017 by ShotgunNinja

[Rhedd]

1 hour ago, ShotgunNinja said:

Ehm... that error you see is 'fake': it is made to look like a real kind of error, but is just here because the vessel in question ('Test Craft') has no connection and is not manned. Before the EVA, it was manned so that fake error message wasn't shown.

 

@CatastrophicFailure You got an extra '{' on line 2.

 

I separe experiments in two categories: 'data-producing' and 'sample-producing'. The distinction is made automatically from the 'xmitDataScalar' property of stock science experiments. If the property is less than 1.0 (even 0.99), I just consider the experiment 'sample-producing'.

 

Maybe I can make these experiments produce both data and samples, together, in proportion of xmitDataScalar. Example: an experiment has xmitDataScalar=0.9, it will produce 90% data and 10% samples on collection.

 

Could that improve the situation?

Definitely. I think that's exactly what I was hoping for.

And then analyzing the "sample-producing" part in a lab would convert it to data as usual, if a lab is available.

Sounds like it would be perfect.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Rhedd

[Daniel Prates]

1 hour ago, ShotgunNinja said:

 

 

I understand. Unfortunately, this 'replace the science system without anybody noticing' stunt didn't really work out as plain as I imagined. So consider it experimental.

 

 

 

It is very good anyway. I like the new system so much that I actually shelved "station science" alltogether, to give preference to kerbalism as a whole. But it would be excellent to see all mods dialoguing well some point in the future.

 

Come to think of it, maybe the devs of those two mods should be warned about this too. Maybe there is something to be done from their end. I'll drop a line on their respective threads.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Daniel Prates

[blakemw]

4 hours ago, ShotgunNinja said:

To: All the people with 'loss of control after eva bug'
I can't reproduce this bug for the life of mine. Can some of you guys that are experiencing this issue be so kind as to try to reproduce it only using MM + Kerbalism? Can you also try to reproduce it only using MechJeb (and dependencies)? Thank you.

 

 

Hah, I managed to reproduce it. Seems planting a flag is important.

• Land a vessel with a command pod and probe core where this is no signal
• Go on EVA
• Plant Flag
• Get back in, control should now be locked out.
• Control for that vessel will remain locked out even if you load a save from before planting the flag.
• Control can be restored by restarting the game, or removing the flag.

 

It probably isn't needed but here's a save from which to reproduce the steps.

Reproduced on: Linux 64bit, mods: Only Kerbalism, MM and KER.

 

PS. I believe I also had control lockout occur in orbit without a flag: I believe that was using KIS/KAS and manipulating some parts.

 

Edited March 3, 2017 by blakemw

[Andrea Galimberti]

Hi ShotgunNinja

I'm not sure if I'm spotted a bug or just a "feature". I built a satellite equipped with "Little Brother Surveillance Camera" and performed an observation. Kerbalism treated it as a sample and stored it in the HD of the satellite. Good!

Now the problem is that the "Little Brother Surveillance Camera" has been set as "inoperable", requiring a scientist to restore it. But this experiment have a (stock) capacity of TWO samples, not just one.

Is Kerbalism able to handle multi-sample experiments such as the "Little Brother Surveillance Camera", "Micro Goo Containment Pod", etc? Is this a bug or your intended implementation?

 

Another (different) question about science. Does sample analysis in al orbiting lab produce some science boost? Is analyzing a sample more convenient than just returning it to Kerbin?

 

Thank You

Andrea Galimberti

[eberkain]

6 hours ago, ShotgunNinja said:

Ehm... that error you see is 'fake': it is made to look like a real kind of error, but is just here because the vessel in question ('Test Craft') has no connection and is not manned. Before the EVA, it was manned so that fake error message wasn't shown.

 

@CatastrophicFailure You got an extra '{' on line 2.

 

I separe experiments in two categories: 'data-producing' and 'sample-producing'. The distinction is made automatically from the 'xmitDataScalar' property of stock science experiments. If the property is less than 1.0 (even 0.99), I just consider the experiment 'sample-producing'.

 

Maybe I can make these experiments produce both data and samples, together, in proportion of xmitDataScalar. Example: an experiment has xmitDataScalar=0.9, it will produce 90% data and 10% samples on collection.

 

Could that improve the situation?

  That was going to be my suggestion, sounds like the perfect solution. 

[Windspren]

So, how do we extract water, CO2, hydrogen, oxygen, ect from our surroundings?

[klugeh01]

1 minute ago, Laythe Dweller said:

So, how do we extract water, CO2, hydrogen, oxygen, ect from our surroundings?

the atmospheric sensor gets the ability to filter gases from the atmosphere, and the chemical plant and ISRUs have the ability to perform various chemical processes

[Windspren]

I looked through the configs and couldn't find anything that adds resource conversion to the chemical plant, since I was going to copy some to some ISRU parts from another mod. Also, is there a way to convert Liquid Hydrogen from other mods to Hydrogen, and likewise with Oxidizer and Oxygen?

[klugeh01]

2 minutes ago, Laythe Dweller said:

I looked through the configs and couldn't find anything that adds resource conversion to the chemical plant, since I was going to copy some to some ISRU parts from another mod. Also, is there a way to convert Liquid Hydrogen from other mods to Hydrogen, and likewise with Oxidizer and Oxygen?

 

The file that adds those functions is the default profile in Gamedata/Kerbalism/Profiles. If you want to convert between hydrogen and liquid hydrogen, you'll have to add a new process (not super simple, but if you follow the patters established in the other processes and processmanagers it should work). As for oxygen/oxidizer, they are different chemicals, and there are already chemical processes in the mod for the generation of oxygen and oxidizer

[Windspren]

In all of my other ISRU mods they are treated as identical, as in you can use IntakeAir to make oxidizer. I just want an easy way to get oxygen on a place like Laythe or something.

 

Also, is Stockalike Station Expansion supported? All the hab modules show no comfort or living space.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Laythe Dweller

[JadeOfMaar]

Hello again, everyone. If someone can advise me towards a solution for this problem... Tellumo is the second breathable planet in Galileo's Planet Pack but your systems say otherwise. (Hadrian with its LN2 oceans is not supposed to be breathable.)

If a planet's specs are counted towards whether it's breathable then let me know. Tellumo is a giant planet with 10x pressure and 1.9 gravity.

On 3/1/2017 at 11:53 AM, quarrion said:

I played a little on my kerbalism + gpp + setii save and I encountered a few bugs:

1) As I noticed before, kerbalism does not treat tellumo and hadrian as planets with breathable atmosphere:

 

I hyperedited myself there - kerbals definitely do not trust the atmosphere there  - as you can see down here

 

Edited March 4, 2017 by JadeOfMaar

[klugeh01]

@Laythe Dweller, kerbalism does not touch any of the conversion functions that other mods add, but it does add some of its own. The atmospheric sensor part allows you to harvest CO2, Oxygen, or Nitrogen from the atmosphere (configurable, 1 slot), the chemical plant is a new part that is available early in the tech tree, and only has conversion processes from kerbalism (configurable, 1 slot), and the stock ISRUs lose the stock conversion processes, but gain all of the processes from kerbalism (configurable, 2 slots for large, 1 slot for small) and also get all conversion processes added by other mods.

 

Kerbalism processes are:

 

Antraquinone Process: combine hydrogen and oxygen to get oxidizer (hydrogen peroxide)

 

Sabatier Process: combine carbon dioxide and hydrogen to get water and liquid fuel (methane)

 

Haber Process: combine nitrogen and hydrogen to get ammonia

 

Solid Oxide Electrolysis: extract oxygen from carbon dioxide (allows you to make your oxygen supplies last longer by storing carbon dioxide produced by your ship's scrubbers and extracting the oxygen from it and dumping the carbon)

 

Molten Regolith Electrolysis: extract oxygen from ore

 

Water Electrolysis: split water into hydrogen and oxygen

 

Because you can mine for water and ore, and your kerbals produce carbon dioxide (assuming you have a functional scrubber and storage for CO2), it is possible to produce both liquid fuel and oxidizer if landed in a location that has both water and ore available for mining.

 

The wiki has most of this information, and the release notes have additional hints as to what this mod is capable of.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2017 by klugeh01

[theJesuit]

53 minutes ago, Laythe Dweller said:

I looked through the configs and couldn't find anything that adds resource conversion to the chemical plant, since I was going to copy some to some ISRU parts from another mod. Also, is there a way to convert Liquid Hydrogen from other mods to Hydrogen, and likewise with Oxidizer and Oxygen?

Only the default profile has them.

 

Peace.

[ShotgunNinja]

16 hours ago, Andrea Galimberti said:

Is Kerbalism able to handle multi-sample experiments such as the "Little Brother Surveillance Camera", "Micro Goo Containment Pod", etc? Is this a bug or your intended implementation?

The two experiments mentioned are implemented using custom modules (DMModuleScienceAnimate and derivates), that Kerbalism has no specific knowledge of. In fact, the Science system has been designed to not require specific knowledge of third-party science modules. The data is captured in some generic way instead. This has advantages (no need to support custom modules explicitly) but also disadvantages (no way to support extra features added by those custom modules, such as the 'run the experiment up to N times' provided by DMModuleScienceAnimate).

 

17 hours ago, Andrea Galimberti said:

Another (different) question about science. Does sample analysis in al orbiting lab produce some science boost? Is analyzing a sample more convenient than just returning it to Kerbin?

There is no science value boost. Instead, the lab is used to transform non-transmissible data into transmissible data, over time. This make returning samples to Kerbin more convenient, provided that you can return in the first place. Or that you don't need the science credits before the mission return.

 

12 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Hello again, everyone. If someone can advise me towards a solution for this problem... Tellumo is the second breathable planet in Galileo's Planet Pack but your systems say otherwise. (Hadrian with its LN2 oceans is not supposed to be breathable.)

If a planet's specs are counted towards whether it's breathable then let me know. Tellumo is a giant planet with 10x pressure and 1.9 gravity.

From next version I'll consider atmosphere of bodies with 'atmosphereContainsOxygen == true' as breathable.