BUST: 1.1.X Crashes (Your Help Requested!)

[Claw]

So eons ago, I started a series of threads for solving some difficult issues in KSP. It didn't really go much of anywhere, but I did manage to definitively fix two of the four issues (and possibly a third). So I'm resurrecting the idea to see if there's enough information out there to help with the "constant crashes" that some folks seem to be experiencing. There are several existing threads, but I want to condense the information into one place, and the existing threads were started at various versions of KSP.

 

BUST - Bugs Under Special Testing (Community Project)

Special Note: Please do not post requests for support on this thread. If you need help fixing a problem, please see the Support stickies.

 

The purpose of this particular thread is to gather information related to the crashes experienced in 1.1.X, most specifically the ones that seem to be happening in the VAB. The biggest thing to note here is that we need to gather information to figure out what the common trend is with the crashes. So with any reports, please be very explicit about the operating system, video card, KSP version, etc. Threads that just state "yeah, me too!" don't help much with narrowing down the root of the issue. Even if you aren't experiencing bugs, posting some stats about your setup may be useful.

If you manage to find reproduction steps, please post them in detail. FYI, the "repeatedly move a part in symmetry back and forth over a root part" doesn't seem to be repeatable for myself or several others. If you have more ways to cause this crash, please let me know.

Remember the logs!

 

http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/8241

 

 

 

[Gaarst]

No logs to submit right now, but I had an idea about these crashes:

Could it be that these crashes are caused by a bug in the way Unity 5's PhysX version handles multithreading and more specifically unloading parts (or another CPU load) from a thread ?

This would explain why the issue happens when deleting parts in the VAB or hovering with symmetry (rendering parts and deleting them quickly), on stock installs, since 1.1 only and on both 32-bit and 64-bit versions. It would also explain why similar crashes (instant CTD and no error logs generated) happen when decoupling parts (transfering load from a thread to another one) in flight.

I don't know much about how all of this works, so it might be utter nonsense but that is just an idea I had.

Also, I will try to post logs when I encounter these crashes. Does it matter if some infomational mods are installed (KER and KAC) or strictly stock installs only ?

[Claw]

As a matter of point: I do not get crashes by hovering over a part with symmetry, rapidly moving it back and forth. I even forced it up to symmetry much higher than eight. I also don't get crashes from pulling parts off and putting them to the side. And that's with both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of KSP running on my Windows 8.1 machine. It's an i7 with a GTX 860M (Driver 355.60, from 8/13/2015). This is why I'm trying to gather information about systems and symptoms.

I pulled out my old machine (32-bit Vista) and 1.1.2 crashes quite often. Unfortunately that system is eight years old and can't handle debugging via Unity. But when I get a chance, I'm going to try fiddling with settings to see if I can narrow it down to anything in particular.

 

4 hours ago, Gaarst said:

Does it matter if some infomational mods are installed (KER and KAC) or strictly stock installs only ?

Well, my preference is for stock. But I think for getting the information gathering underway, I'm happy to (initially) take inputs for modded installs. However, I'm not planning on installing a bunch of add-ons to track things down...so the fewer, the better.

 

4 hours ago, Gaarst said:

Could it be that these crashes are caused by a bug in the way Unity 5's PhysX version handles multithreading and more specifically unloading parts (or another CPU load) from a thread ?

It's possible. With crashes that are pseudo random like this (by that I mean that they strike particular folks, but not others), I find that it's quite often due to some race condition or interaction issue, such as from coroutines, or objects getting deleted but referenced later during cleanup in some other section. Being unable to replicate the issue locally makes it incredibly difficult to pin down.

(Reasons why computer specs can be important: I was able to replicate someone's bug with the altimeter, that nobody else could replicate, because their system specs led me to check a certain condition.)

[BrutalRIP]

I have been getting these VAB/SPH symmetry crash i dont have a log right now but will post 1 the next time it crash's

KSP 1.1.2

dxdiag.txt

[AlamoVampire]

@Claw This thread should be linked into your op. some good info here on the crashes. 

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by AlamoVampire

[Claw]

7 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

This thread should be linked into your op.

Added!

[Drelam]

In SPH and VAB:

Sometimes, when trying to attach a part on the surface of the root parts (is it called that way?) in symetry mode the game just crashes to desktop.

Also when deleting a already attached part (no matter how it was attached) the game sometimes crashes too.

 

And it produces no logs at all. I have tired a modded and unmodded with no difference.

[Gaarst]

Still no logs from me but some more food for thoughts:

Mods have an impact on these crashes. A big one. On a "barebones" mod test install (15 mods installed but only Ven's Revamp adding/changing parts) I couldn't stay in the VAB longer than a couple minutes while building a simple rocket.

[smjjames]

3 hours ago, Gaarst said:

Still no logs from me but some more food for thoughts:

Mods have an impact on these crashes. A big one. On a "barebones" mod test install (15 mods installed but only Ven's Revamp adding/changing parts) I couldn't stay in the VAB longer than a couple minutes while building a simple rocket.

Yeah, I was on TheReadPandas stream the other day when they had a VAB crash. It was pretty heavily modded though.

I know it goes against the whole 'no mods' deal, but perhaps for this one they need to since mods are probably stressing something in a way that plain stock doesn't. It could be something simple as the number of parts.

Edited May 18, 2016 by smjjames

[Gaarst]

Just had a crash in the VAB while rearranging staging. Modded install though, will try to replicate with a stock install and post logs.

[Kiro]

Here is some info related to the frequent CTD on my build.

DxDiag

Crash report (from the only time there was a crash output, usually there is nothing, just CTD)

It is a heavily modded install as you will see, but I never reach anywhere near my memory limit. 95% of the crashes happen in the VAB. The larger the craft the more likely it crash. The crash does usually happen when a part or a large group of parts is removed/deleted.

I'll try and post more if a remember something.

 

[smjjames]

@Kiro and @Gaarst If possible, narrow down the mods to see if theres any that might be particularily prone to it?

Though I suppose check and see if you can reproduce it in pure stock first.

You know, I wonder if this is distantly related to http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/9352 in some way....  I have no evidence to set up any correlation anyway, just idle musing.

Edited May 18, 2016 by smjjames

[Gaarst]

Had a crash in the SPH after a bit of playing 1.1.2 on a near stock install (only KER, KAC and MM installed), 64-bit.

Steps to reproduce: spent a little while building stuff, and the game crashed upon deleting a single part (a wing if that matters).

No crash logs generated, output_log.txt and DxDiag zipped here.

I can probably provide more information if needed.

 

EDIT: one more crash in the SPH, same procedure, this time purely stock game, output_log here.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Gaarst

[Claw]

12 hours ago, Drelam said:

Sometimes, when trying to attach a part on the surface of the root parts (is it called that way?) in symetry mode the game just crashes to desktop.

So this is a good example of an issue that I haven't been able to repeat. So then the question becomes, what is different about your setup than others? If you have the time and patience, try turning off or changing every setting available to see if that changes anything.

 

12 hours ago, Drelam said:

And it produces no logs at all. I have tired a modded and unmodded with no difference.

KSP always produces a log. It might not always make a crash folder, but there is always a log file. It's location will depend on the operating system, and can be found via the support sticky.

 

12 hours ago, Gaarst said:

Mods have an impact on these crashes. A big one. On a "barebones" mod test install (15 mods installed but only Ven's Revamp adding/changing parts)

That might be valid. Part of the problem is that it's hard to tell when it's caused by a mod...though you are right, mods can help point to the issue (I've used them to trigger bugs in the past). The best bet though is (as @smjjamessuggested) narrow down as much as possible.

 

 

So far I see Windows 10 and Windows 7, KSP 64 and 32 bit. One crash looks like it happened when switching back to KSP. The other two crashes look like they were after attaching a couple wings, toggling snap mode, and then deleting the small delta wing (delta.small). Unfortunately the log doesn't show when symmetry count is toggled.

 

 

[J.Random]

http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/8241

There you go.

[Claw]

9 minutes ago, J.Random said:

http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/8241

Thanks. That bug report is already linked in the OP. It contains logs from various states in development, but part of the issue is that the logs aren't particularly helpful in this case...So I started this thread to help with collaborating to (possibly) narrow down the issue. Also, I can't replicate the issue with the steps provided in the writeup (nor can the other devs who have looked into this). So there's something more to it, and I'm trying to get to the core of the issue.

[Claw]

Which also reminds me. For all the folks who are having these crashes, is anyone NOT using Nvidia cards? And for those who are using Nvidia but not getting crashes, what is the date on your video card drivers?

[Gaarst]

6 hours ago, Claw said:

So far I see Windows 10 and Windows 7, KSP 64 and 32 bit. One crash looks like it happened when switching back to KSP. The other two crashes look like they were after attaching a couple wings, toggling snap mode, and then deleting the small delta wing (delta.small). Unfortunately the log doesn't show when symmetry count is toggled.

For the crash I posted, I was using 2x Mirror symmetry.

 

3 hours ago, Claw said:

Which also reminds me. For all the folks who are having these crashes, is anyone NOT using Nvidia cards? And for those who are using Nvidia but not getting crashes, what is the date on your video card drivers?

Using a Nvidia card here (950M) drivers last updated February (we're already in May ?!). Will update to the latest and see if the crashes still occur.

Will also do the mod pinpoint thing.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Gaarst

[adsii1970]

I'm not using a NVIDIA card; I am using the stock card that came in my HP laptop:

• AMD E2-1800 APU with Raedon(tm) HD Graphics 1.70 GHz
• 8.00 GB RAM
• 64 bit operating system, x64 based processor
• Windows 10 Home Edition

I experience crashes if I've reverted back to the SPH for either a fourth time OR if I revert after playing for at least an hour before my game crashes.

My most recent crash was last night, but instead of the normal crash, I did get the Windows program error dialog box (This program has stopped responding. Please wait while Windows finds a solution).

There was no crash file completed, as KSP has done in the past, but I am including the log file here. I'm really not asking for any thing special because I figure this will be addressed in a future patch OR when I buy a new laptop and have better processor speed and increased graphics/RAM. I'm simply trying to help with diagnosis.

Edited May 19, 2016 by adsii1970

[Gaarst]

I managed to build a whole rocket without crashing after updating my drivers... SMH

Edit: just crashed in the VAB. Updating drivers didn't solve the issue, but definitely increased the time between crashes, even with some mods.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Gaarst

[BrutalRIP]

7 hours ago, Claw said:

Which also reminds me. For all the folks who are having these crashes, is anyone NOT using Nvidia cards? And for those who are using Nvidia but not getting crashes, what is the date on your video card drivers?

I'm also NOT using nvidia.  i got a Radeon hd 5670

[shooty]

Hi, Some things that I found helpful in lessening crashes, I'll post below, though I still get random crashes just clicking on things with the mouse, even clicking start game - occasionally......( modded or stock).  My setup xp32 that could use a reformat on a core duo 2, Nvidia.

Don't laugh it works...   I also test on a windows 10 lap top for log comparisons.

I run the game from a shortcut to the exe, not through steam, steam not running.

Anyways - Please note that I do not recommend doing any of the following - except for testing, by experienced peoples:

I rip the steam controller goop out of the ksp dir and the squad plugins folder the - game plays and it gets rid of this:

 [EXC 19:19:50.847] InvalidOperationException: Steamworks is not initialized.
    Steamworks.InteropHelp.TestIfAvailableClient ()
    Steamworks.SteamController.Shutdown ()
    SteamController.KSPSteamController.OnDestroy ()
    SteamController.KSPSteamController.OnApplicationQuit ()

I don't use special controller so I don't miss it. Also the game started, so that was a plus.

I've been doing it since Squad added it in 1.05

 

Just for clarity, by ripping out the steam goop - I mean delete

in: Kerbal Space Program\   these: steam_api.dll & steam_api64.dll & CSteamworks.dll 

this: Kerbal Space Program\CSteamworks.bundle

in: Kerbal Space Program\GameData\Squad\Plugins\   these:  KSPSteamCtrlr.dll & Steamworks.NET.dll & Steamworks.NET.dll.config

I leave the SaveUpgradePipeline.Scripts stuff as I don't know what it does...I guess it throws the new script errors or something

I don't know of, and have not yet seen, any negative impact from doing this.

So that's my first 10 min. with KSP 1.1.2.

 

Also I have low memory so I clean this up:

(Steam version:build id = 012602016.04.30 at 11:49:48 CEST
Branch: master)

Kerbal Space Program\GameData\Squad\Parts\Wheel\roverWheelM1

delete
model000.dds

convert
roverwheel1.mbm (to .dds)

Kerbal Space Program\GameData\Squad\Parts\Wheel\roverWheelS2

delete
model000.dds
model001.dds

convert
roverwheel2.mbm
roverwheel2_n.mbm

Kerbal Space Program\GameData\Squad\Parts\Wheel\roverWheelTR-2L

delete
model000.dds
model001.dds
model002.dds
model003.dds

convert
ksp_r_medWheel_diff.mbm
ksp_r_medWheel_normal.mbm
ksp_r_medWheel_wheel_diff.mbm
ksp_r_medWheel_wheel_normal.mbm

Kerbal Space Program\GameData\Squad\Parts\Wheel\roverWheelXL3
delete
model000.dds
model001.dds
model002.dds
model003.dds

convert
mount.mbm
mount_n.mbm
wheel.mbm
wheel_n.mbm

Kerbal Space Program\GameData\Squad\Parts\Utility\landingLegLT-1
texture duplicate

ksp_r_landingStrut_diff.dds
ksp_r_landingStrut_diff.mbm

Kerbal Space Program\GameData\Squad\Parts\Utility\landingLegLT-2
texture duplicate

landingLeg.dds
landingLeg.mbm

Kerbal Space Program\GameData\Squad\Parts\Utility\landingLegLT-5
texture duplicate

leg.dds
leg.mbm

delete old/legacy name file
model000.dds

Squad\Spaces\LargeCrewedLabInternals

convert to .dds from .png

-also thanks for doing your excellent Claw stuff. It helps a lot (makes the game playable).

I hope this info is helpful to someone.

-edit I just read the bug report chatter in the link posted and saw the steam controller stuff was already suggested....

sorry about that .

 

Edited May 19, 2016 by shooty
spelling, edits

[J.Random]

11 hours ago, Claw said:

It contains logs from various states in development, but part of the issue is that the logs aren't particularly helpful in this case...

It also contains multiple stack traces. If you need more help, provide debug build, with additional logging. What comes to mind first:

- Why is there so many threads? I've seen up to 60 simultaneous threads in stock, in the main menu scene.

- What is this JobQueue stuff seen in every(?) stack trace? Add logging, maybe?

[smjjames]

17 minutes ago, J.Random said:

It also contains multiple stack traces. If you need more help, provide debug build, with additional logging. What comes to mind first:

- Why is there so many threads? I've seen up to 60 simultaneous threads in stock, in the main menu scene.

- What is this JobQueue stuff seen in every(?) stack trace? Add logging, maybe?

A 'debug build' would be an experimentials (or perhaps pre-release), besides, he'd need to get permission to do that in the first place. He can't just cook up a 'debug build' and say 'Here, use this.'

There actually is a 'verbose debug log' setting in the settings config, but that doesn't actually give more information. I kind of thought it would allow other logging stuff to show up.

Though yeah, this is the kind of situation where additional logging would be helpful.

Edited May 19, 2016 by smjjames

[J.Random]

@smjjames, do you want me to get banned or something? I won't start another "release" rant here.