KSP Book

[Sharpy]

Actually, the copyright law has an interesting caveat/exception on "guidebooks". Not only are they permissible by law, you CAN use the trademarked name, if you supplement your title with the word "unofficial".

That was a lengthy precedent case, where someone released a book that was an unofficial guide of the Harry Potter world. Of course the publishers fought it - and lost.

Regardless, asking permission never hurts, and sublicensing will benefit both parties (unless one gets greedy).

[Thalamask]

I wrote a KSP fan-fiction book (listed in my sig) and "published" it in the Fan Works section of the forums. Never had any grief from Squad about it, so there's that....

[stibbons]

I'm impressed this thread has stretched in to a second page of speculating on whether you're allowed to publish a KSP book, without anybody acknowledging the fact that a KSP book is about to be published.

http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920035138.do

[Pecan]

19 hours ago, stibbons said:

I'm impressed this thread has stretched in to a second page of speculating on whether you're allowed to publish a KSP book, without anybody acknowledging the fact that a KSP book is about to be published.

<scam deleted>

That bunch have been taking 'pre-orders' for their book for at least 2 years.  When I wrote my KSP book I checked what was already out there - at the time the were planning to publish on Amazon in 'Nov 2014'.

[BT Industries]

On 8/30/2016 at 5:27 PM, Sharpy said:

Cardboard cutouts, pages printed on flashpaper and paper immersed in potassium nitrate, a DYI Kerbal Rocket book, that's what I'd like!

That is a really cool idea!!!

On 9/1/2016 at 1:51 AM, Pecan said:

As Vanamonde has said, you need permission from Squad - and you won't get it unless you are doing it for free.

As well as copyright on the game, etc. they have trademarks on various words and phrases so you can't even mention them, the game's name or use the word 'Kerbal' at all.  They also refuse permission to use any screenshots from the game - although you can create your own artwork "inspired by a game I'm not allowed to mention because it's owned by some people who I can't mention".

I know - after the success (>100,000 downloads) of my Exploring The System guide I wanted to publish the new version as an ebook.  Best way to do that was Amazon and you can't publish there free, so a nominal fee was going to be charged.  It took months and several emails to get Squad to even say 'no' to screenshots (I originally intended to have some explaining the settings, etc.).  They completely failed to ever come up with attribution text, or even to agree the boilerplate version I sent them ("Squad have asserted their right to be identified as the authors of Kerbal Space Program").  No notice was taken whatsoever of suggestions of them employing me to write an official manual or of me paying them a licence fee.  If you might make some money it's a no, end of story.

On the other hand; if it's free, they're usually pretty relaxed about things.  Just make sure you do check with them.

 

Hmmm... Shame

On 9/1/2016 at 2:25 AM, Sharpy said:

Actually, the copyright law has an interesting caveat/exception on "guidebooks". Not only are they permissible by law, you CAN use the trademarked name, if you supplement your title with the word "unofficial".

That was a lengthy precedent case, where someone released a book that was an unofficial guide of the Harry Potter world. Of course the publishers fought it - and lost.

Regardless, asking permission never hurts, and sublicensing will benefit both parties (unless one gets greedy).

So you make a guide as long as you use the word unofficial in the title and don't use screenshots.

Did I get that right???

[Sharpy]

1 minute ago, BT Industries said:

That is a really cool idea!!!

Hmmm... Shame

So you make a guide as long as you use the word unofficial in the title and don't use screenshots.

Did I get that right???

Yes.

Caveat: that doesn't mean you won't get sued.

That just means if your lawyer isn't totally incompetent, you will win the lawsuit.

[Pecan]

50 minutes ago, Sharpy said:

Yes.

Caveat: that doesn't mean you won't get sued.

That just means if your lawyer isn't totally incompetent, you will win the lawsuit.

Hehe, about right.

To be clear-ish (different jurisdictions and all that, IANAL), you can mention or refer to other works - such as using the title "Kerbal Space Program" - as long as you make it clear yours is in no way officially connected to it or endorsed by its owners.  You must also be very careful about how much of their work you include.  Screenshots are a no-no according to Squad but it's moot as to whether you dare mention the names of the parts, let alone quote their descriptions,  etc.  Different companies vary in their attitude; JK Rowling and Bloomsbury probably wouldn't worry if one of your characters was said, in passing, to be reading 'Harry Potter' whereas Disney - who are famously litigious - would have you in court before the ink on 'Mickey Mouse' was dry.

[Sharpy]

2 minutes ago, Pecan said:

Hehe, about right.

[snip]

http://writers.stackexchange.com/q/8243/4291

[Pecan]

Well yes, Sharpy - look at all the caveats and the fact the second case lost.  Also note that what constitutes 'fair use' is very variable and it's not even a recognised defence anyway in some jurisdictions.

For the record, I still intend to publish - and mention both the name and owner of KSP.  Lot less interested in doing so than I was a couple of years ago though.

[Kerbart]

1) Do not mix up trademark and copyright. They are entirely different entities, each with their own legislation.

2) Fair Use is not a license to copy. The limitations and circumstances which apply to Fair Use are extensive and usually well defined in court. "I didn't copy everything" or "it's not for profit" rarely qualifies automatically as Fair Use, in fact it rarely does.

3) copyright is a highly litigious area where I would consult an attorney or study seriously, and not take advice from some guys you've never seen from the internet.

[ZooNamedGames]

58 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

1) Do not mix up trademark and copyright. They are entirely different entities, each with their own legislation.

2) Fair Use is not a license to copy. The limitations and circumstances which apply to Fair Use are extensive and usually well defined in court. "I didn't copy everything" or "it's not for profit" rarely qualifies automatically as Fair Use, in fact it rarely does.

3) copyright is a highly litigious area where I would consult an attorney or study seriously, and not take advice from some guys you've never seen from the internet.

#WTFU (Where's The Fair Use).

Just a movement going around that I'm following, granted this is a bit far outside of it's world.

Edited September 2, 2016 by ZooNamedGames

[Vanamonde]

Can I just say that it's not a good idea to rely on random people from the internet for legal advice? People are tying to be helpful, I understand, but... still. 

[KSK]

On ‎31‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 4:51 PM, Pecan said:

As Vanamonde has said, you need permission from Squad - and you won't get it unless you are doing it for free.

As well as copyright on the game, etc. they have trademarks on various words and phrases so you can't even mention them, the game's name or use the word 'Kerbal' at all.  They also refuse permission to use any screenshots from the game - although you can create your own artwork "inspired by a game I'm not allowed to mention because it's owned by some people who I can't mention".

I know - after the success (>100,000 downloads) of my Exploring The System guide I wanted to publish the new version as an ebook.  Best way to do that was Amazon and you can't publish there free, so a nominal fee was going to be charged.  It took months and several emails to get Squad to even say 'no' to screenshots (I originally intended to have some explaining the settings, etc.).  They completely failed to ever come up with attribution text, or even to agree the boilerplate version I sent them ("Squad have asserted their right to be identified as the authors of Kerbal Space Program").  No notice was taken whatsoever of suggestions of them employing me to write an official manual or of me paying them a licence fee.  If you might make some money it's a no, end of story.

On the other hand; if it's free, they're usually pretty relaxed about things.  Just make sure you do check with them.

 

Thanks Pecan - that answers a couple of questions that I've been pondering for a while. I was wondering about self-publishing my KSP fiction on Amazon, more out of a 'would anyone outside of the forums read this' sense of curiosity than anything else. And yes, I would have been more than happy to come to an arrangement with Squad, include any necessary 'this is not official KSP canon' disclaimers etc.

Doesn't sound as though that's going to fly though. Oh well.

Edit:  I should have said - 'self publishing - with Squad's permission'. That was always understood.

Edited September 2, 2016 by KSK

[ZooNamedGames]

1 hour ago, KSK said:

Thanks Pecan - that answers a couple of questions that I've been pondering for a while. I was wondering about self-publishing my KSP fiction on Amazon, more out of a 'would anyone outside of the forums read this' sense of curiosity than anything else. And yes, I would have been more than happy to come to an arrangement with Squad, include any necessary 'this is not official KSP canon' disclaimers etc.

Doesn't sound as though that's going to fly though. Oh well.

Kind of a buzzkill for us. :/ I've really been pondering on the design.

[KSK]

1 hour ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Kind of a buzzkill for us. :/ I've really been pondering on the design.

*shrugs*

That's the main benefit and the main drawback to any sort of fan writing. You have a recognizable setting to work in which gives you (potentially at least) a ready-made pool of readers. On the other hand - it's not your setting so you'll likely need permission to publish your work, with no guarantee of getting that permission.

KSP is a little different to many fanfic settings because it doesn't have much in the way of official canon about the kerbals, their world, or their space program for that matter. Thus KSP fanfic (I would argue) is more reliant on the author's creativity than some other popular fanfic settings. At the end of the day though, we're still writing about Squad's characters and using what canon they've given us.

Speaking as someone who's spent over three years writing about the kerbals and their various adventures (and expects to have spent the best part of four years doing so by the time I'm through), it would have been nice if Squad had some kind of 'extended universe' policy for fanfic authors to publish their work under license but there's no particular reason why they should and many good reasons why they shouldn't.

Were those 3-4 years a waste of time if I can't publish? Not remotely. I'll always be thankful to Squad for developing a computer game that inspired me to start writing and I've learned a lot about writing whilst working on my KSP story. I've also had a couple of ideas for original work along the way, which I might actually get around to developing - sitting down to put words to paper on a regular basis is something I'm used to now. And who knows - take away the kerbals, Kerbin and all the other KSP trappings and memes, and my kerbal fan fiction might still provide the basis for a publishable story one day.

Edited September 2, 2016 by KSK

[Pecan]

@KSK and @ZooNamedGames

On the other hand, if you make a VIDEO ... Squad will be all for you.  They love the publicity from youtube, just hate the written word.  Their 'media' team was (is?) solely for video-makers, despite being the plural of 'medium'.  Hehe, they didn't like my suggestion that it be renamed 'the medium team' either.

Anyway, that wraps up this conversation, until it comes up again.  As Vanamonde and Kerbart have said, inter alia, get proper legal advice, IANAL, check what's copyright and what's trademarked (it's much harder to get away with any use of the latter and it includes the word 'Kerbal') and - since you can't know in what jurisdiction Squad will attempt to sue you - keep your fingers crossed.

[ZooNamedGames]

8 minutes ago, Pecan said:

@KSK and @ZooNamedGames

On the other hand, if you make a VIDEO ... Squad will be all for you.  They love the publicity from youtube, just hate the written word.  Their 'media' team was (is?) solely for video-makers, despite being the plural of 'medium'.  Hehe, they didn't like my suggestion that it be renamed 'the medium team' either.

Anyway, that wraps up this conversation, until it comes up again.  As Vanamonde and Kerbart have said, inter alia, get proper legal advice, IANAL, check what's copyright and what's trademarked (it's much harder to get away with any use of the latter and it includes the word 'Kerbal') and - since you can't know in what jurisdiction Squad will attempt to sue you - keep your fingers crossed.

Maybe me and @KSK can lodge a double request to Kasper to make a book manual?

@KasperVld

[KSK]

37 minutes ago, Pecan said:

@KSK and @ZooNamedGames

On the other hand, if you make a VIDEO ... Squad will be all for you.  They love the publicity from youtube, just hate the written word.  Their 'media' team was (is?) solely for video-makers, despite being the plural of 'medium'.  Hehe, they didn't like my suggestion that it be renamed 'the medium team' either.

Anyway, that wraps up this conversation, until it comes up again.  As Vanamonde and Kerbart have said, inter alia, get proper legal advice, IANAL, check what's copyright and what's trademarked (it's much harder to get away with any use of the latter and it includes the word 'Kerbal') and - since you can't know in what jurisdiction Squad will attempt to sue you - keep your fingers crossed.

Hate is a strong word - lets not go there.

But simply from perusing the Daily Kerbal it's clear that Squad do have a strong preference for videos and artwork. I'll leave an exact count as an exercise for all the insomniacs out there, but I reckon you could probably count up the number of times a written work (including graphic novels, stories with or without screenshots, or mission reports) has featured in Fanworks Friday on one hand without running out of fingers. Video of course, gets a day to itself.

Naturally, I'm not remotely neutral in this but I do think it's a pity. There's a lot of good stuff out there getting overlooked, not to mention the efforts of a decent proportion of the forum community.

And yeah, as has been pointed out, for goodness sake don't rely on this thread for legal advice. My own personal opinion? If in doubt seek permission and if that permission isn't forthcoming, just move on. For one, it's just good manners and for two, it's way cheaper and less stressful than worrying about lawsuits.

[Pecan]

20 hours ago, Sharpy said:

 

4 minutes ago, KSK said:

...Video of course, gets a day to itself...

Video Wednesday AND Twitch Thursday, as well as featuring in fanworks *sigh*

(mods and Sharpy - sorry I just can't get rid of that quote-box at the top of this post)

Edited September 2, 2016 by Pecan