[KSP 1.12.1+] Galileo's Planet Pack [v1.6.6] [23 Sept 2021]

[OhioBob]

1 hour ago, Chocolat Oreos said:

@Galileo Can you make a mod where you start with the space center on tellumo? If you could then move the 2 moons around gael to tellumo, it would also be kindof fun to do career there!

That is actually an idea that we played around with nearly a year ago.  We wanted to provide a Tellumo Home World edition.  For some reason @Galileo could never make it work.  I don't recall the problems, but I know Galileo struggled with it for quite a while.  I looked over the cfgs as well and neither one of us could figure out why it wasn't working.  I remembering doing quite a bit of work figuring out some engine/SRB modifications to better adapt them to Tellumo's high ambient pressure, which ended up being all for naught.
 

Edited October 28, 2017 by OhioBob

[Galileo]

6 minutes ago, OhioBob said:

That is actually an idea that we played around with nearly a year ago.  We wanted to provide a Tellumo Home World edition.  For some reason @Galileo could never make it work.  I don't recall the problems, but I know Galileo struggled with it for quite a while.  I looked over the cfgs as well and neither one of us could figure out why it wasn't working.  I remembering doing quite a bit of work figuring out some engine/SRB modifications to better adapt them to Tellumo's high ambient pressure, which ended up being all for naught.
 

I have it working but there are other bugs now that I have to deal with. I just haven’t had time to focus on it recently

[Chocolat Oreos]

@Galileo There was a man that did it with duna and eve, I don't know how the mod was called, but maybe you could ask him for him or him to make an addon that changes things up

[JadeOfMaar]

2 minutes ago, Chocolat Oreos said:

@Galileo There was a man that did it with duna and eve, I don't know how the mod was called, but maybe you could ask him for him or him to make an addon that changes things up

That would be @Gordon Fecyk. He shared a Tellumo setup and is one of the helpers on @GregroxMun's Alien Space Program (KSC on any planet). He'sshown himself to be quite an awesome fellow.  

Edited October 28, 2017 by JadeOfMaar

[OhioBob]

7 minutes ago, Galileo said:

I have it working but there are other bugs now that I have to deal with. I just haven’t had time to focus on it recently

Ah, so maybe my engine modifications weren't for nothing after all. 

Maybe you mentioned at some point that you got it working, but I don't recall that.  GPP has obviously gotten a lot more complex since we first played around with the idea.  It doesn't surprise me at all that making a home world switch could produce all sorts of bugs and unintended consequences.

 

Edited October 28, 2017 by OhioBob

[JadeOfMaar]

@OhioBob Your engine tweaks were never worthless. Never. We've had a few players land on Tellumo (mainly with stock engines) already. If anything, your engine tweaks have only missed a few opportunities to shine.  (In short, bundle them anyway)

[Galileo]

27 minutes ago, Chocolat Oreos said:

@Galileo There was a man that did it with duna and eve, I don't know how the mod was called, but maybe you could ask him for him or him to make an addon that changes things up

It’s also a lot easier to do when you haven’t already deleted all of the stock bodies lol

[OhioBob]

41 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@OhioBob Your engine tweaks were never worthless. Never. We've had a few players land on Tellumo (mainly with stock engines) already. If anything, your engine tweaks have only missed a few opportunities to shine.  (In short, bundle them anyway)

EVE Optimized Engines works pretty well on Tellumo.  Those engines are adapted for 5 atm rather than Tellumo's 10 atm, but the improvement gained by further adapting them for the higher pressure is only marginal.  Since EOE is "good enough" I've never seen a reason to bundle up my Tellumo engines as a separate release.  However, if Tellumo becomes the home world, then that's a different story.  Now the thought process has to change.  Operating on Tellumo becomes the new normal, and the engines have to be modified accordingly.  All the booster engines need to be adapted for Tellumo's, high atmospheric pressure, and we need just a few engines for off world use (such as on neighboring Gael, which has only 1/10th the atmosphere of the home world, but still significant).  The biggest change has to be to the SRBs (the existing SRBs are totally worthless at high pressures).  I completely reworked SRBs to turn them into something useful.

Using my engine modifications I found that it is actually fairly easy to launch from the surface of Tellumo, though with a significantly lower payload fraction than we are accustom to.
 

Edited October 28, 2017 by OhioBob

[JadeOfMaar]

11 minutes ago, OhioBob said:

Using my engines modification I found that it is actually fairly easy to launch from the surface of Tellumo, though with a significantly lower payload fraction than we are accustom to.

Sounds legit to me. The most that we're currently able to launch is satellites. Granted that worlds with ~100 kPa (1 atm as we know it in KSP) become a foreign concept in this case are you implying that jet engines's performance curves would be very different there?

Edited October 28, 2017 by JadeOfMaar

[OhioBob]

1 minute ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Sounds legit to me. The most that we're currently able to launch is satellites. Granted that worlds with ~100 kPa (1 atm as we know it in KSP) become a foreign concept in this case are you implying that jet engines's performance curves would be very different there?

If we do get around to making Tellumo the home world, one thing that you'll notice is that 1 atm now equals 1013.25 kPa.  In other words, 1 atm is defined as the atmospheric pressure of the home world.  Makes sense because to beings living on that planet, they're atmospheric pressure is the standard by which others are measured.  So Tellumo and Gael will have atmospheric pressures of 1 atm and 0.1 atm respectively (though the pressure in kPa is unchanged).

 I don't know much about jet engines, but @Gordon Fecyk has already figured out how to modify their curves for Tellumo.

We probably just need to package his JetEngineCurveExtender with the Tellumo home world edition.

[eggzy]

So after bragging about GPP's performance on my PC, something broke and it's causing massive issues and even causing my GPU to crash. Unable to fix it, I've started a fresh install. The instructions for texture replacer and final frontier are quite vague and I can't recall off-hand where to properly merge them. Can someone please refresh my memory? Thanks!

 

JK I remembered, but my point about a couple of the mods having rather vague install instructions still stands. I'll continue to edit this post as I methodically re-install my 50+ mods.

 

UPDATE 1:

The USI Catalog is rather misleading to install and seems redundant. I'd streamline that set of instructions to separate them out as unique installs or broaden the instructions and incorporate all of the individual aspects into one big "THIS IS USI HAVE FUN" category. As it stands it just feels... odd. I think an install procedure that is super user friendly and doesn't leave any "figure it out on your own" type of wording will make GPP the place to send folks new to the game. I mean hell this thing is better than the stock game Squad gave us.

 

UPDATE 2:

I would do your best to organize things like parts packs, visuals, tools, life support add ons, and immersion mods into the relative same category based on their classification. I found lots of redundancies sprinkled throughout that seemed to slow the process down (I was not able to dedicate lots of time to my PC this past weekend but the install process took me around 4 hours in total working casually.). I would suggest just going back and working back through it and organize it to your liking. Again, I appreciate the effort on your end so please don't misconstrue my comments as criticism! @JadeOfMaar

Edited October 30, 2017 by eggzy
see post

[JadeOfMaar]

2 hours ago, eggzy said:

I'd streamline that set of instructions to separate them out as unique installs or broaden the instructions and incorporate all of the individual aspects into one big "THIS IS USI HAVE FUN" category. As it stands it just feels...

Are you suggesting I arrange all the USI references into one solid chunk in my guide post? The post that contains the install instructions? I don't mind if that's the case.

Edited October 28, 2017 by JadeOfMaar

[Gordon Fecyk]

@Chocolat Oreos Here's the experimental configurations I made for a Tellumo home world. Back up your existing configs for these worlds before dropping them in. @Galileo, @JadeOfMaar, @OhioBob, you can take this with permission, and consider it licensed the same as GPP, CC-By-NC. If needed I'll make a GitHub repository for it.

The KSC on Tellumo in this config is on an island just west of a major continent, right near sea level. You may want to move it somewhere else, maybe on a plateau where air pressure and density is close to Kerbin or Gael normal.

Here's what happened with regards to stock engines: When GregroxMun developed Alien Space Programs, a tester discovered the engine ISPs were weird. For instance, the LV-N normally has pathetic thrust (18 kN) and specific impulse (185 s) at Kerbin sea level. At Duna sea level it would have values much closer to vacuum levels (60 kN / 800 s), but if Duna was the home world with its stock atmosphere, the ISP and thrust would get re-calculated to Kerbin sea level values at Duna sea level. The solution was to have a sliver of 101.3 kPa air at 0 m, and then at 0.0001 m set the pressure to Duna's stock value. This logic was extended to Eve, and I added it to Laythe for consistency.

When I did the Tellumo home world configuration for testing jet engines, I did the same changes. I don't know if KSP still calculates engine ISP based on the home world's sea level pressure, or if it uses a fixed value, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to be consistent for testing. The atmosphere changes looked like this:

		Atmosphere
		{
			//[...]
			// GregroxMun commented this out in Alien Space Programs to use a rocket ISP workaround below
			// staticPressureASL = 1013.25
			pressureCurveIsNormalized = False
			pressureCurve
			{
				//Sliver of Kerbin-level air to make sure rocket ISP was consistent
				key = 0	101.325	-1.21756857142857E-02 -1.21756857142857E-02
				//Resume actual atmosphere pressure here
				key = 0.0001 1013.25 0 -0.301558
				key = 1000 748.035 -0.231454 -0.231454
				//[...]
			}
		}

Tellumo still had the thick and heavy atmosphere it was supposed to, but KSP would calculate engine ISP values correctly.

As for the Jet Engine Curve Extender, I made that using Advanced Jet Engines and recording the static thrust values at different altitudes. If someone were to add AJE to the default GPP installation, they'd get higher thrust in Tellumo's thicker air because it ignores atmCurve and calculates everything using NASA's EngineSim code in real time. I don't know anything really about how jet engines are supposed to work, but I was able to get thrust curves that looked like close matches for the stock curves up to 1 kg/m³, so I figured the values past one were close enough for stock kerbal jets. I extended atmCurve, but not velCurve or atmosphereCurve because jet engine ISP didn't significantly change at higher atmospheric densities under AJE.

Even the puny Juno engine works quite differently here:

Spoiler

 

 

Edited October 29, 2017 by Gordon Fecyk
Added Chocolat Oreos mention since they asked

[RaceToTheMun]

Can 1.5.3 support 1.3?

[JadeOfMaar]

4 minutes ago, RaceToTheMun said:

Can 1.5.3 support 1.3?

It does. Just install a version of Kopernicus that works with your version of KSP. I assume 1.3.0-x

[Chocolat Oreos]

@Gordon Fecyk I was just making a suggestion, and you made it come true! This is sick man!

 

[vossiewulf]

Yeah that's going to be a tricky one.

 

[Chocolat Oreos]

@Gordon Fecyk Can you make some changes to the atmosphere thickness, right now it takes about this much to get something off off the launchpad: http://prntscr.com/h3euqw

 

I kindof want to do a youtube series on this weird config, so can you tell me how to change atmosphere/gravity tweaks, so I can make it playable?

[Chocolat Oreos]

  @Gordon Fecyk I made this patch over your files that makes the atmosphere 70kms thick, litterally copied the atmosphere curve of gael and pasted it instead of the atmosphere curve of tellumo, then I made the atmosphere 1atm thick instead of 1.9, here is the download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nixy9ghiva5yfw6/TellumoSpaceProgram.zip?dl=0 I tested everything and it appears to work... with my minor modding skills...

 

edit: I made a reddit post on this (with install instructions) 

 

Edited October 29, 2017 by Chocolat Oreos

[Chocolat Oreos]

@Galileo I need some help here, the patch is cool and all, but the contract gains are waay too high. In a second mission in career, you can have 600k funds. I only understood how I could change the science gains, the atmosphere settings, but now the gains from contracts....

[Gordon Fecyk]

2 hours ago, Chocolat Oreos said:

 I made this patch over your files that makes breaks the atmosphere

[snip]

I wouldn't have done that to Tellumo. At least, not just like that. The folks who choose to play GPP generally know Tellumo has a hidden hostility and want that challenge. They also want a little more realism.

A world with nearly 2 g and an atmosphere with 101.3 kPa at sea level would have a lot less height than the 45 km that Tellumo currently has. It might still support life, but only at the lowest altitudes. OhioBob has a spreadsheet and a set of guidelines for atmospheres; he's the guy who did Realistic Atmospheres and I think he did the atmospheres for GPP.

To give you a stock idea: Eve's stock atmosphere height is 90 km. With 1.7 g and Eve's other properties its realistic atmosphere would only be 55 km, even lower altitude than Kerbin's. Duna's lighter gravity had its atmosphere height changed from 50 km to 70 km. 

Also, to balance out science gains, try taking a look at the science multiplier values for Gael and make educated guesses how much harder, or easier, it would be to accomplish the same goals from Tellumo. For instance, surface science would be unchanged, low altitude flight would also be unchanged, high altitude flight would be considerably higher, and low space even more so. Then when going from Tellumo to other worlds, compare the distances and orbital inclinations from Gael with that from Tellumo.

And finally, welcome to modding! Don't let my ramblings stop you from trying out stuff and having fun with it.

Oh ya, one last thing: GregroxMun did Alien Space Programs. I just fixed a few things for KSP 1.2 and 1.3. Credit where due.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Gordon Fecyk
Grammar

[Chocolat Oreos]

@Gordon FecykBut the problem is, when launching a rocket with the previous settings, A whole lot of rockets have 0 ISP and 0KN thrust at the level the ksc is. Is there a way to make the ISP counters more normal, because otherwise it would be completely impossible to do career? And how do you change contract rewards? Because the gains you get now are OP...

[Gordon Fecyk]

Just now, Chocolat Oreos said:

when launching a rocket with the previous settings, A whole lot of rockets have 0 ISP and 0KN thrust at the level the ksc is.

That's the challenge. But it isn't an impossible one.

Might I suggest installing Eve Optimized Engines and Jet Engine Curve Extender? If you can scrape enough science to get to Tier Three's Aviation node, which should be pretty easy with Tellumo's default science multipliers, you can get usable wheels and the Juno jet engine. These will get you most places near the "Tellumo Space Center" to get surface and low altitude science. Then work your way up the rocket engine branches to Tier Three's General Rocketry and Tier Four's Advanced Rocketry to get the Abel and Adam liquid fuel engines, which are high pressure versions of the Swivel and Reliant engines. Those can get you to high atmosphere, and later to space.

You will have to resort to "caveman" techniques at first, just putting a pod on the launch pad and gathering ground science. Remember the runway's a separate biome too, and it's a short roll from both of these places to the crawlerway and the grass beside the runway.

And now you have me curious. I'll see if I can do these things.

[Jim Kernan]

@JadeOfMaar I have a question: What could cause the buildings that KSC++ adds to not show up in the space center view? They do appear when I'm on the runway or the launch pad. I'm thinking I might have checked or un-checked a setting. The buildings initially appeared in the space center view after I installed GPP.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Jim Kernan

[Chocolat Oreos]

@Gordon Fecyk The problem we have here, is that lot's of people like to mod the game in a fun and interesting way, and if they are stuck with 5 different engines for their launchers that actually work (referring to the EVE engine mod) they won't like the mod, the only people who would like such a dense atmosphere and gravity, is the people who build spaceplanes, because through my testing with your mod, it is easier to build ssto's because of the rediculous amount of lift you get, but normal rockets are almost impossible, something that would potentially work is a stratolauncher, but they get bulky and really advanced really quickly, I made one, but it tipped out of control after losing a bit of fuel. 

 

So what I suggest, is that we have 2 versions; a nerd version and an easier version (with a normal atmosphere and maybe a bit harder gravity) to make people play the planet pack in a more fun and interesting way. Because the thing with Gael is, it plays just like a reskinned kerbin in my opinion, the planet is almost the same size, the escape velocity is close to the same. So by playing on a completely different body with comepletely different characteristics, would refresh players to come back and play career once again but in a different and a bit more challenging way. It doesn't have to be completely reaslistic, because that would be really difficult to balance. The nerd version is the normal unchanged tellumo