Development Update for Consoles!

[Mako]

@Jeremiah

I wasn't saying your idea is bad. Your idea is lovely. I wish more companies acted the way you're asking them to act, but as I said, refunds would have happened by now and there is nothing additional to offer to console players at this time. So, besides a refund, there is nothing KSP-related with which to compensate a console customer that currently exists or that has been announced. I am saying you are unlikely to get what you would like to get for that reason, whether I believe you should get it or not. That's just the reality of the situation.

I'm glad you've had good experiences with Take-Two in the past and I sincerely hope this turns out to be a net positive experience for every console customer, but in this specific instance what could they offer to console customers that would make sense?

A console exclusive feature is a nice thought. Heck, it could even be a nice compromise to the fact that modding is PC only and likely to remain that way. Besides two Bethesda games, does any game support mods on consoles yet? Whatever it might be would likely come to PC eventually even if only in the form of a mod, but for a time the console versions could have something exclusive. But what would that exclusive be?

A console exclusive might be a bit of work and therefore could be a long time coming since work hasn't begun on anything yet (unless they've already planned a surprise for console customers), so what else would be reasonable compensation? This isn't criticism of your idea; now I'm genuinely asking what would work in absence of any current or announced products. They still could decide to do a refund, I suppose, but waiting this long to do so still seems very unlikely to me.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Mako

[AVaughan]

Personally I'll be surprised if they release 1.2 for consoles and not 1.3.  (But hey I've been surprised before.  It wouldn't be the first time).  The most significant change between 1.2 and 1.3 was localisation support, which is something I think they'd want to have on consoles.   And it makes little sense to spend this much money on redoing the port, if they aren't planning on supporting the game on consoles going forward.  That means that they would want to be support whatever DLC the PC version gets.  Which means they will want to be able to port changes from the PC version accross to the consoles on an ongoing basis.  

[PrvDancer85]

1 hour ago, Mako said:

@Jeremiah

 

A console exclusive feature is a nice thought. Heck, it could even be a nice compromise to the fact that modding is PC only and likely to remain that way. Besides two Bethesda games, does any game support mods on consoles yet? Whatever it might be would likely come to PC eventually even if only in the form of a mod, but for a time the console versions could have something exclusive. But what would that exclusive be?

Fallout 4 does support mods

[Mako]

3 hours ago, AVaughan said:

Personally I'll be surprised if they release 1.2 for consoles and not 1.3.  (But hey I've been surprised before.  It wouldn't be the first time).  The most significant change between 1.2 and 1.3 was localisation support, which is something I think they'd want to have on consoles.   And it makes little sense to spend this much money on redoing the port, if they aren't planning on supporting the game on consoles going forward.  That means that they would want to be support whatever DLC the PC version gets.  Which means they will want to be able to port changes from the PC version accross to the consoles on an ongoing basis.  

I agree that what you're saying makes a lot of sense, but until they announce something else the only official word we have to go on is the console version Blitworks is putting together will be 1.2.2. In absence of any other announcement, and since I haven't seen a hint of it being otherwise, that's what I'm expecting to see. While it does make sense to then continue working to update the console versions to be in line with the PC versions, the PC could potentially be on a newer version of Unity by then. Even if not, the amount of work that went into 1.3(.1) might take a while to port since it included a lot of UI changes to accommodate the localization work. It could be another long wait to catch up. It even seems possible that console versions might not catch up until the PC versions' development comes to an end, if they ever catch up at all.

I don't know how well the console versions sold before they were pulled and I'm a bit pessimistic on how well they'll sell after the relaunch (based on nothing other than my own assumptions so I'd love to be wrong). If sales numbers are less than expected, I can imagine a world where 1.2.2 is the last version of KSP available on consoles. It would be a real bummer, and I sincerely hope that isn't the case.

I've asked several times, specifically with the console versions in mind, if the Making History DLC will have an in-game mission browser for the mission builder to find and download missions to play. I've never seen Squad discuss how they intend players to share missions, but if it requires going outside of the game to share and find new missions, then it seems less likely that they even intend to make this DLC for the console versions. I'm not a console owner so I might be missing something, but are there any games that allow external, user-made data to be loaded? I know in the past stuff like that has been used to bypass security on consoles, and if I recall correctly even the two Bethesda games that allowed mods on consoles exclud mods with scripting, and in the case of the PS4, any external assets. Since mods with scripting (and external assets) seem to be considered a security risk, I suspect the missions you can build with the Making History mission builder would be considered a security risk. If somehow loading user-made missions from an external source was allowed (which seems unlikely), it would at the very least be a bit of a hassle to go to a webpage like Curse, search for and download missions, and copy them to a flash drive to be able to load on your console. An in-game browser is the most user friendly solution I can think of and the only way I can see the Making History mission builder working on consoles. It's also the most difficult solution with the most amount of work, and since they've never even bothered to get the update patcher to work on PCs I don't expect it as the mission sharing solution.

I guess console versions could exclude the mission builder part of Making History and be available at a discounted price. That doesn't seem unreasonable and would certainly be possible. If the console versions get updated enough to support the DLC it would be the quickest and easiest way to make at least part of the DLC available. Or, I suppose you could include the mission builder, but make it only able to load missions created locally on that console. I'm fairly sure that would be allowed, and it might be worth it.

 

2 hours ago, PrvDancer85 said:

Fallout 4 does support mods

As I said in that quote, besides two Bethesda games (Fallout 4 and Skyrim being those two games), do any other games support mods? Even those two only support mods that have no scripting and on PlayStation only mods that use existing in-game assets. The allowed user-made content is incredibly restricted.

[James M]

4 hours ago, Mako said:

I agree that what you're saying makes a lot of sense, but until they announce something else the only official word we have to go on is the console version Blitworks is putting together will be 1.2.2. In absence of any other announcement, and since I haven't seen a hint of it being otherwise, that's what I'm expecting to see. While it does make sense to then continue working to update the console versions to be in line with the PC versions, the PC could potentially be on a newer version of Unity by then. Even if not, the amount of work that went into 1.3(.1) might take a while to port since it included a lot of UI changes to accommodate the localization work. It could be another long wait to catch up. It even seems possible that console versions might not catch up until the PC versions' development comes to an end, if they ever catch up at all.

I don't know how well the console versions sold before they were pulled and I'm a bit pessimistic on how well they'll sell after the relaunch (based on nothing other than my own assumptions so I'd love to be wrong). If sales numbers are less than expected, I can imagine a world where 1.2.2 is the last version of KSP available on consoles. It would be a real bummer, and I sincerely hope that isn't the case.

I've asked several times, specifically with the console versions in mind, if the Making History DLC will have an in-game mission browser for the mission builder to find and download missions to play. I've never seen Squad discuss how they intend players to share missions, but if it requires going outside of the game to share and find new missions, then it seems less likely that they even intend to make this DLC for the console versions. I'm not a console owner so I might be missing something, but are there any games that allow external, user-made data to be loaded? I know in the past stuff like that has been used to bypass security on consoles, and if I recall correctly even the two Bethesda games that allowed mods on consoles exclud mods with scripting, and in the case of the PS4, any external assets. Since mods with scripting (and external assets) seem to be considered a security risk, I suspect the missions you can build with the Making History mission builder would be considered a security risk. If somehow loading user-made missions from an external source was allowed (which seems unlikely), it would at the very least be a bit of a hassle to go to a webpage like Curse, search for and download missions, and copy them to a flash drive to be able to load on your console. An in-game browser is the most user friendly solution I can think of and the only way I can see the Making History mission builder working on consoles. It's also the most difficult solution with the most amount of work, and since they've never even bothered to get the update patcher to work on PCs I don't expect it as the mission sharing solution.

I guess console versions could exclude the mission builder part of Making History and be available at a discounted price. That doesn't seem unreasonable and would certainly be possible. If the console versions get updated enough to support the DLC it would be the quickest and easiest way to make at least part of the DLC available. Or, I suppose you could include the mission builder, but make it only able to load missions created locally on that console. I'm fairly sure that would be allowed, and it might be worth it.

Im just speaking my mind here.. Using Halo Reach for example, a player could make a map with in game assets (thats the right word, I think?), then other players could load said map assuming they had the players gamertag or found it in the list of thousands through a filter system. Couldnt they implement something similar with missions? Ive never played ksp on pc so Im not the best to talk but wouldnt it be like you choose mission type, set restrictions, then if you like it, you could upload it for other players to use if they choose? It wouldnt be so difficult then...

[Mako]

1 hour ago, James M said:

Im just speaking my mind here.. Using Halo Reach for example, a player could make a map with in game assets (thats the right word, I think?), then other players could load said map assuming they had the players gamertag or found it in the list of thousands through a filter system. Couldnt they implement something similar with missions? Ive never played ksp on pc so Im not the best to talk but wouldnt it be like you choose mission type, set restrictions, then if you like it, you could upload it for other players to use if they choose? It wouldnt be so difficult then...

Sure, I totally see how something like that could work. I wasn't aware of what that title did, but it sounds pretty similar to what I was saying about an in-game mission browser. Though the big difference between a title like that and KSP is that Halo Reach launched as an already online game with existing servers. KSP has no current online functionality (unless someone wants to be pedantic about sending usage data to Squad being online functionality), so work would need to be done and mission data servers would need to be implemented, operated, and maintained.

I do think that this is the most user friendly way to implement mission sharing, but since no word of how sharing will work has been announced yet we'll just have to wait and see. The quickest, easiest, and least expensive way for Squad to implement sharing missions, having creators upload them wherever they want like they do with mods and having users download them and install them like mods, is also the least likely way for Microsoft and Sony (especially Sony) to allow in my opinion.

Because it's quick, easy, and cost-effective, the treating-mission-sharing-like-mod-sharing method is my best guess for how Squad has been thinking about sharing. I would love to be wrong, but the pros out weight the cons from the development side of things. If it does go that way, at least on PC I can imagine a community-made website will be adapted or created to handle mission sharing, possibly (probably) complete with a search and download manager similar to CKAN. Then again, Squad could have the PC audience do sharing the way I'm expecting, and have the it function differently on consoles by making use of the servers that Microsoft and Sony operate for online functionality. That seems like a pontential solution, and console-specific mission sharing could be implemented during the likely necessary console port work for the Making History DLC. That would mean that consoles wouldn't get the DLC until much later than PC, most likely, but at least it could arrive with feature parity. Also, having mission  sharing be on Microsoft and Sony servers means it'll last at least until their current consoles are no longer supported which is actually a huge positive point for doing it that way.

All of this is just dumb speculation on my part, and all of this is moot if the DLC never makes it to the consoles.

[Terwin]

16 hours ago, Mako said:

A console exclusive feature is a nice thought. Heck, it could even be a nice compromise to the fact that modding is PC only and likely to remain that way. Besides two Bethesda games, does any game support mods on consoles yet? Whatever it might be would likely come to PC eventually even if only in the form of a mod, but for a time the console versions could have something exclusive. But what would that exclusive be?

I wonder if they could include some of the mods created/supported by Squad employees(such as RoverDude and his popular USI suite of mods)

Negotiations could happen in-house, and as consoles seem to have a lengthy approval process for new releases, a slight delay while those mods get updated would hardly be noticeable on new versions.

It would be an unexpected bonus for console users that is using well used code, so hopefully not a big source of errors.

(I was thinking about the USI mods in particular because things like Life support can be completely, or partially disabled by settings that can be changed in-game, and other things(like base building) can be ignored by just never using the parts)

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

2 minutes ago, Terwin said:

I wonder if they could include some of the mods created/supported by Squad employees(such as RoverDude and his popular USI suite of mods)

Negotiations could happen in-house, and as consoles seem to have a lengthy approval process for new releases, a slight delay while those mods get updated would hardly be noticeable on new versions.

It would be an unexpected bonus for console users that is using well used code, so hopefully not a big source of errors.

(I was thinking about the USI mods in particular because things like Life support can be completely, or partially disabled by settings that can be changed in-game, and other things(like base building) can be ignored by just never using the parts)

Speaking of which, how about Kerbal Alarm Clock by TriggerAu? I shudder to think of my fellow Kerbonauts (though they're crazy console gamers) having to do without this most indispensable of mods. Being a staff member, I've long wondered why they haven't worked out a way to simply make it a part of the stock game, as it probably should be.

[Terwin]

2 hours ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

Speaking of which, how about Kerbal Alarm Clock by TriggerAu? I shudder to think of my fellow Kerbonauts (though they're crazy console gamers) having to do without this most indispensable of mods. Being a staff member, I've long wondered why they haven't worked out a way to simply make it a part of the stock game, as it probably should be.

Some times I wonder if not including KAC is a tactical decision.

There is often noticeable lag when visiting a vessel that has been unloaded for a long time but performing a function(like mining and refining fuel), and not having KAC encourages only a single mission in-progress at a time, reducing the frequency of the lag due to background processing.  (it is not like there is a big down-side to only doing one mission at a time after all, and being able to time-warp all the way to Jool without worrying about other things in process could even be an advantage to sequential missions)

On the other hand, when I updated to 1.3.1, I did make frequent use of the 'next node' timers in the tracking center for much the same purpose(it is just a lot easier to over-look than an on-screen pop-up, especially with large numbers of missions in-progress).  Would have been nice if I could have sorted my vessels according to next burn node though.  Also it has no way to set a non-node alarm, especially for checking-back on landed bases where you cannot add a 0dv burn as an alarm.

 

[Jeremiah]

On October 24, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Galileo said:

Nothing I read from their responses sounded like they didn’t know what they were talking about. They were just, well, responding. That’s what forums are for, and to expect otherwise is odd. If you don’t want people to respond with comments that aren’t in line with yours, you are probably better off writing it on a piece of notebook paper. This is the internet, and nothing goes unnoticed and not responded to lol. That said, not everyone will agree with everything you say. This is not just true on these forums, but in the real world as well. 

You say “they should do this” others will respond with pretty much what you got above. It wasn’t disrespectful, it wasn’t condescending, it was just reasons why it probably won’t happen. Just like you put your reason up for why it should. Just your typical forum debate. 

Here's the problem: one of them later said that they think it would be great if what I said would happen. Thing is, if you agree then why explain why you THINK it won't happen? What's the point in that? If you agree that Squad should apologize and compensate people for their mistake, then just say so. The more people who want an apology and compensation, the more likely it'll happen (definitely not saying it WILL happen). Explaining why you think something won't happen doesn't help anything here, if anything it deters people from requesting the same thing. Squad needs to apologize and make this right, end of story. Will they? Probably not, but its worth a try to demand it.

I've had lots of bad experiences in forums. An example: my friend requested that characters in Ark: Survival Evolved be allowed to be transferred from the old official servers to the new official servers via a Facebook post/comment on Wild Cards Facebook page. My friend was insulted with words that would get me banned/suspended from these forums if I repeated what the commenters said to him. Some even told him to kill himself for requesting that. 50+ negative/insulting replies to his comment and just a few positive replies, all within a few hours. I wrote something similar on their website and was met by the same result as my friend (no where near as bad as the replies he got, though). Similar things happened on other suggestion forums I posted on. That is why I hate going on forums.

(kind of off topic, but just covering my bases: yes I know Ark was in early access, but other multiplayer games allowed people to keep their progress after early access/beta, and Wild Card never said anything about deleting servers one by one, not being allowed to transfer characters, and not offering support for legacy servers all after release. We only play PvE so no, we would not have an advantage over other players if we were allowed to transfer our characters. And yes they DO have the power to at the very least give you the amount xp you earned in legacy servers to a new character in the new official servers, but they refuse. Yes, I heard its not hard to level up in Ark, but some of us have jobs and college that prevents us from spending hours upon hours of grinding. And there are things they could have done to prevent people from immediately going into PvP after a characters transfer)

In real life people don't usually tell you to kill yourself or insult you for stating an innocent comment about something. But you are right, they were simply giving their opinion. But like I said, it doesn't help anything.

[Mako]

@Jeremiah

I meant exactly what I said. It would be nice if they offered something to console customers, however I have limited expectations of them doing so. I like to deal with realistic expectations, and it's probably egotistical of me but I like to try to help others have realistic expectations. I find that so many disappointments and disagreements, both online and in the real world, stem from poor communication and poorly-managed expectations, so I open my big mouth (probably way too often and if you all haven't caught on by now I love to hear myself talk [or in this case type way too much]). Furthermore, I don't believe Squad to be under any obligation to offer the things you'd like, and as long as they do deliver a working console version I don't believe anyone is entitled to anything more. In fact, if Squad had left the console version as broken as it was, all any customer could do is try to get a refund, say "Shame on Squad!," and complain on the internet about it, but that would be the end of it.

This kind of thing happens all the time with all kinds of products. Some companies offer warranties, others offer satisfaction guarantees, and some offer easy return policies, all so you feel good about your purchase. And still other companies don't offer anything as a sign of good faith that you'll like your purchase, and when you buy from them and are unhappy, well, it's very unpleasant and unfortunate, but that's it.

Right now Squad is a company that doesn't have any products of their own, and doesn't own the product they're working on, so they're in no place to really offer anything besides an apology. I pretty much accept the work they're doing on fixing the console versions to be an apology. What do you really care about at the end of the day: a working console version or an apology? Personally, I'll take the working version every time. Take-Two could do something more substantial, but I guess it depends how much they want to make the people who bought KSP on consoles feel better.

As I said before, I'd love to see them do something nice for console customers. And on that thought I will wish you well on your mission to get something for your grievances. And I hope that Squad does deliver a good console version to you and that you experience enough enjoyment from it that it overcomes any negativity you have experienced caused by myself and this whole ordeal in general.

[AVaughan]

Quote

yes I know Ark was in early access, but other multiplayer games allowed people to keep their progress after early access/beta, and Wild Card never said anything about deleting servers one by one, not being allowed to transfer characters, and not offering support for legacy servers all after release

It's actually common practice for early access games with online rankings/progress/xp tracking to reset everyones online rankings/lvl/progress when the game does actually releases.  If nothing else, the new players that buy the game on release day expect a level playing field.  (It doesn't matter whether you only play pve, just seeing players who obviously have lvls/xp earned from before the game released might be off putting to new players who just bought the game.  So typically companies will either segrate new players on new servers, or reset everyones progress or close the early access servers and make you start a new character.  I wouldn't expect to be able to transfer my existing progress to the new servers, unless the company has explicitly said they would allow that. 

I've also participated in several beta ftp games where everyone's progress was regularly reset without warning, anytime the developers decided that was the easiest way to fix something.  

Edited October 27, 2017 by AVaughan
Added quote to make it clear I what I was responding to

[Deddly]

22 hours ago, AVaughan said:

It's actually common practice for early access games with online rankings/progress/xp tracking to reset everyones online rankings/lvl/progress when the game does actually releases.

That's a good point. But KSP on console wasn't supposed to be early access, unfortunately.

Oh, you were talking about another game

Edited October 27, 2017 by Deddly
My comment doesn't make sense anymore :P

[Ineedaweapon]

50 minutes ago, Deddly said:

That's a good point. But KSP on console wasn't supposed to be early access, unfortunately.

I might be wrong, but I think he was responding to the off topic comment about transferring Ark characters?

Edited October 26, 2017 by Ineedaweapon

[Leopard]

never mind early access, at this rate the Xbox one version will be available for the museum curator to play on the last surviving working one.

Though they will probably find it still doesn't work

[AVaughan]

4 hours ago, Ineedaweapon said:

I might be wrong, but I think he was responding to the off topic comment about transferring Ark characters?

I was.  I'll fix my comment above to reflect that in a minute.

[Ineedaweapon]

The usual...

Quote

KSP on consoles continues to be thoroughly tested and improved as feedback comes in. Some of the most interesting improvements we saw in the latest build, include a bug that threw an exception when trying to switch controller presets from the mini settings, and another one that inverted the camera axes when a particular preset was selected. Inverting the axes in the mini settings menu fixed the issue in the Editors, but broke it everywhere else. Luckily, the conjoint effort of the QA team and Blitworks is allowing us to detect and fix these issues before anyone can experience them.

 

[DD_bwest]

i wush they could lile release the bug list so we know how much is left.

 

or do some kind of beta for those of us have double  dipped and have thousands of hours play time.  Lol 

[Leopard]

A test beta open to those who already own it, not on general sale, once squad _think_ it's largely done for a month or three before a review prior to general release would be good.

as would coding in a crash reporter the user can invoke when the game locks up to provide further feedback

maybe a debug menu showing stuff like frame rate, memory used etc as a screen overlay

[Mako]

16 hours ago, DD_bwest said:

or do some kind of beta for those of us have double  dipped and have thousands of hours play time.  Lol 

 

3 hours ago, Leopard said:

A test beta open to those who already own it, not on general sale, once squad _think_ it's largely done for a month or three before a review prior to general release would be good.

Now that's a good idea. I assume Squad would be open to that idea since they've done that with the last several PC version updates. I wonder if they've already given it some consideration since it seems to have worked well on PC.

I know with Steam on PC it's pretty easy for a developer to release updates on a beta test branch for users to test. I can't think of any reason it would be impossible to do on consoles. Since KSP is not currently available for sale, I'm guessing that Squad could just push an update for the current console version and only those who already own it would be able to download it. Maybe it's a bit more complicated because it's on consoles, but there's ways to run betas if the developer/publisher wants to.

[James M]

On 10/25/2017 at 9:09 AM, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

Speaking of which, how about Kerbal Alarm Clock by TriggerAu? I shudder to think of my fellow Kerbonauts (though they're crazy console gamers) having to do without this most indispensable of mods. Being a staff member, I've long wondered why they haven't worked out a way to simply make it a part of the stock game, as it probably should be.

I've been guesstimating since day one xD 

On 10/25/2017 at 6:35 PM, Jeremiah said:

Here's the problem: one of them later said that they think it would be great if what I said would happen. Thing is, if you agree then why explain why you THINK it won't happen? What's the point in that? If you agree that Squad should apologize and compensate people for their mistake, then just say so. The more people who want an apology and compensation, the more likely it'll happen (definitely not saying it WILL happen). Explaining why you think something won't happen doesn't help anything here, if anything it deters people from requesting the same thing. Squad needs to apologize and make this right, end of story. Will they? Probably not, but its worth a try to demand it.

I've had lots of bad experiences in forums. An example: my friend requested that characters in Ark: Survival Evolved be allowed to be transferred from the old official servers to the new official servers via a Facebook post/comment on Wild Cards Facebook page. My friend was insulted with words that would get me banned/suspended from these forums if I repeated what the commenters said to him. Some even told him to kill himself for requesting that. 50+ negative/insulting replies to his comment and just a few positive replies, all within a few hours. I wrote something similar on their website and was met by the same result as my friend (no where near as bad as the replies he got, though). Similar things happened on other suggestion forums I posted on. That is why I hate going on forums.

(kind of off topic, but just covering my bases: yes I know Ark was in early access, but other multiplayer games allowed people to keep their progress after early access/beta, and Wild Card never said anything about deleting servers one by one, not being allowed to transfer characters, and not offering support for legacy servers all after release. We only play PvE so no, we would not have an advantage over other players if we were allowed to transfer our characters. And yes they DO have the power to at the very least give you the amount xp you earned in legacy servers to a new character in the new official servers, but they refuse. Yes, I heard its not hard to level up in Ark, but some of us have jobs and college that prevents us from spending hours upon hours of grinding. And there are things they could have done to prevent people from immediately going into PvP after a characters transfer)

In real life people don't usually tell you to kill yourself or insult you for stating an innocent comment about something. But you are right, they were simply giving their opinion. But like I said, it doesn't help anything.

You can think we deserve compensation all day. All week for what it's worth. Its not going to happen. That's just the nature of things right now. (Best guess, they're using the income we provided them to pay Blitworks for the update)

[LegendaryAce]

1 hour ago, James M said:

Speaking of which, how about Kerbal Alarm Clock by TriggerAu? I shudder to think of my fellow Kerbonauts (though they're crazy console gamers) having to do without this most indispensable of mods. Being a staff member, I've long wondered why they haven't worked out a way to simply make it a part of the stock game, as it probably should be.

Probably because as a console gamer, I'm not used to mods, so I actually have to learn how to play the game. In all fairness, mods like MechJeb and KAC do not interest me, since I much prefer playing my game, not watching it. 

Besides, I like having to plan my orbital burns and calculating where and for how long I need to burn to dock. I'd be much more proud of a space station that I manually launched, docked, and assembled than one built by launching a rocket and having MechJeb do all the work. 

[0111narwhalz]

I can only launch rockets so many times before it gets boring and routine. And some burns take long enough to make a sandwich or something. In either of these cases I'd rather click some buttons and walk away for a bit. Because for me, the fun is in the building and the landing and the docking and the mission planning. So, for me, a little automation goes a long way in making the game more enjoyable and less tedious.

However, what's fun for me isn't necessarily what's fun for you (and vice versa). I can absolutely respect your playstyle, and indeed my own was closer to it in my early days. All I ask is that you don't dismiss mine as quickly as you seem to have.

(Incidentally, MechJeb is great for teaching the various maneuvers. I learned a great deal from it myself. In this regard, it may be of utility even to people who enjoy "playing" and not "watching.")

[LegendaryAce]

Oh I'm not dismissing anyone's preferences by any means, hence why I said "I prefer". I didn't mean to sound dismissive if I came off as such. 

I was merely pointing out that in the last comment someone said that KAC is indispensable and it seemed he was implying it should be for consoles. However, I'm much more accustomed to my T- time next to the Navball, so an audio cue isn't really necessary to me. Not when I have gotten down an intuition of sorts when to fire my rocket for course corrections.

As for me personally, I don't have the luxury of a PC or mods, so I've gotten used to rocket launches being done manually, and it doesn't seem to bore me.

And as for automation, I think that early on in the Tech Tree, you CAN'T use automation during launches, since you can earn science even during the ascent stages. 

And finally, in regards to MechJeb, Δv calculators, and the sorts, I just think that for ME PERSONALLY, not anyone else, having that autopilot takes the fun out of doing the short or freehand math when doing orbital injections and interplanetary travel.

[Deddly]

I've never used KAC but my impression is that it's primary purpose is to remind you to perform a maneuver that you previously set a node for - perhaps on a parallel mission to the one you are currently controlling - so that you don't accidentally warp past it whilst doing something else. It allows you to have several missions going on at the same time. Depending on your play style, I can see how that can become indispensable. I think it really would be great to have that functionality in Stock, so console users can have a richer experience if they want it. Mind you, it's good you can't do that in the current version, otherwise people would be overflowing their save files much more often. 

 

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I recall something was added to the tracking station to help with that, but I haven't tried it.