How to offset surface attached parts without limit?

[Reusables]

Hello,

I saw several people moved surface attached parts far from their parent part, where offset limit would never allow.

I want to know how to offset those parts. Is it just a trick, like node attached clipped parts which eliminates the limit?

Or are they using mods? (I know there are mods for this; But I want to do it in stock)

[Val]

I use this.

 

[Blaarkies]

Hold down SHIFT

[Superfluous J]

11 minutes ago, Blaarkies said:

Hold down SHIFT

I don't think that works. I use Editor Extensions like Val does.

[Enceos]

26 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

I don't think that works. I use Editor Extensions like Val does.

Did you try?????? I don't use EdEx and can offset my shuttle nose to its tail.

[Sharpy]

Editor extensions, then the L key to toggle offset limits.

Tends to get toggled on or off as you type vessel name or other stuff in VAB, so it's useful to remember in case it stops working

I don't think it's possible in pure stock. There's a setting to allow clipping, but that won't let you move stuff too far.

A way to get a part away in stock more than allowable normally is to attach it, rotate 180 degrees using the rotate tool, to clip it entirely into the parent part, then use the move tool to move it back out, then rotate it back to the right position. It's only viable for roughly the part's length/width distance and only with parts that have their origin (center of rotation) located on one end, and not in the middle.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Sharpy

[Superfluous J]

31 minutes ago, Enceos said:

Did you try?????? I don't use EdEx and can offset my shuttle nose to its tail.

I did, after I said that.

And no, holding shift doesn't appreciably increase the distance I can translate something. It adds maybe ... I don't know ... a decimeter to the distance it can go? It looks more like it just shifts* the frame of reference for the part and has nothing to do with offset distance specifically. Here's a picture of a stack of capsules, with a decoupler shifted down the stack as far as it would go after being attached to the top of the top capsule.

*See what i did there?

[Sharpy]

19 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

And no, holding shift doesn't appreciably increase the distance I can translate something. It adds maybe ... I don't know ... a decimeter to the distance it can go?
 

*shrug*

I was totally surprised it worked - but it did. Shift while dragging the arrow. 1.2.1 stock

 

[Superfluous J]

30 minutes ago, Sharpy said:

1.2.1 stock

The only difference is I tried it in 1.2.2. Well that plus a dozen random differences between our computers that I won't bother asking about. Except maybe are you running on Windows? I know some keys are different for Mac and Linux vs Windows.

I'll admit I'm surprised that this works for anyone, anywhere, considering how wanted NoOffsetLimits always was when it hadn't upgraded, and how now Editor Extensions is. Personally, before (it incorporated NOL) when I noticed EE wasn't installed I made a note to install it next time (and then usually forgot for a week or so, each time I loaded the game) and now if I notice it's not installed I'll exit out of the game and install it.

[Sharpy]

Just now, 5thHorseman said:

 Except maybe are you running on Windows?

Yep.

[Reusables]

1 minute ago, 5thHorseman said:

The only difference is I tried it in 1.2.2. Well that plus a dozen random differences between our computers that I won't bother asking about. Except maybe are you running on Windows? I know some keys are different for Mac and Linux vs Windows.

I'll admit I'm surprised that this works for anyone, anywhere, considering how wanted NoOffsetLimits always was when it hadn't upgraded, and how now Editor Extensions is. Personally, before (it incorporated NOL) when I noticed EE wasn't installed I made a note to install it next time (and then usually forgot for a week or so, each time I loaded the game) and now if I notice it's not installed I'll exit out of the game and install it.

I'm on windows, and I can't do that either.  I'm in 1.2.2 too. It would probably be dependent on version. It might be one of the 'fixed' bugs... hmm...

 

Anyone knows what's changed in 1.2.2?

[FancyMouse]

11 minutes ago, Abastro said:

Anyone knows what's changed in 1.2.2?

You could look into readme.txt in your KSP root folder - that actually contains a pretty big changelog since early versions.

A quick search seems to indicate that there's indeed such a functionality introduced in 1.2.0 (* Increased allowable gizmo offset when holding SHIFT.) but no mention of it in 1.2.2. It doesn't say officially either, that how much more it is allowed by holding shift, so... technically it can be seen as just a design change, not necessarily a bug, even if there is a change.

p.s. I'm in 1.2.2 and I also just see a decimeter of limit increase with shift.

[Reusables]

49 minutes ago, FancyMouse said:

You could look into readme.txt in your KSP root folder - that actually contains a pretty big changelog since early versions.

A quick search seems to indicate that there's indeed such a functionality introduced in 1.2.0 (* Increased allowable gizmo offset when holding SHIFT.) but no mention of it in 1.2.2. It doesn't say officially either, that how much more it is allowed by holding shift, so... technically it can be seen as just a design change, not necessarily a bug, even if there is a change.

p.s. I'm in 1.2.2 and I also just see a decimeter of limit increase with shift.

Thanks! I should consider downgrading then.

EDIT: Well I got a better answer.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Reusables
See EDIT

[bewing]

What changed in 1.2.2 is that the keybinding was changed. It's not shift anymore, it's "Mod" = Alt. But EE might be overriding it.

 

Edited January 4, 2017 by bewing

[Reusables]

2 hours ago, bewing said:

What changed in 1.2.2 is that the keybinding was changed. It's not shift anymore, it's "Mod" = Alt. But EE might be overriding it.

 

Thanks!

EDIT: again, it seems that it's not the most accurate answer...

So sorry about that;

Edited January 4, 2017 by Reusables
See EDIT

[sal_vager]

Nah it's still left shift here, my guess is the editor extensions broke it.

[Superfluous J]

26 minutes ago, sal_vager said:

Nah it's still left shift here, my guess is the editor extensions broke it.

My image comes from a totally stock game. I didn't try Alt, and the shift key I used was the left one.

[sal_vager]

6 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

My image comes from a totally stock game. I didn't try Alt, and the shift key I used was the left one.

Don't know what to tell you, sorry, it's working here with a new settings.cfg in 1.2.2, my modkey is right shift on Linux, but I am using left shift to disable the offset limits.

Maybe something on your PC is grabbing your shift key?

[Enceos]

24 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

My image comes from a totally stock game. I didn't try Alt, and the shift key I used was the left one.

Try with Alt, @bewing said in 1.2.2 mod key was changed from Shift to Alt.

[FancyMouse]

1 minute ago, sal_vager said:

Don't know what to tell you, sorry, it's working here with a new settings.cfg in 1.2.2, my modkey is right shift on Linux, but I am using left shift to disable the offset limits.

Maybe something on your PC is grabbing your shift key?

Not likely. L-shift is such a commonly used key that we would immediately notice it if KSP doesn't respond to it, and it doesn't quite make sense that this is the only case it's broken (shift+scroll still works in editor).

I just tried and interestingly it seems like a settings.cfg problem. A stock generated one - shift works fine. The one that my main KSP is using (which is upgraded from previous version) - a few decimeters come up.

[sal_vager]

17 minutes ago, FancyMouse said:

Not likely. L-shift is such a commonly used key that we would immediately notice it if KSP doesn't respond to it, and it doesn't quite make sense that this is the only case it's broken (shift+scroll still works in editor).

I just tried and interestingly it seems like a settings.cfg problem. A stock generated one - shift works fine. The one that my main KSP is using (which is upgraded from previous version) - a few decimeters come up.

Left shift is also this, from the settings.cfg

Editor_fineTweak
{
    primary = LeftShift
    secondary = None
    group = 0
    modeMask = -1
    modeMaskSec = -1
}

It'd be interesting to see @5thHorseman's entry.

This isn't a bug in 1.2.2, and downgrading isn't the answer.

[FancyMouse]

3 minutes ago, sal_vager said:

Left shift is also this, from the settings.cfg

Editor_fineTweak
{
    primary = LeftShift
    secondary = None
    group = 0
    modeMask = -1
    modeMaskSec = -1
}

It'd be interesting to see @5thHorseman's entry.

This isn't a bug in 1.2.2, and downgrading isn't the answer.

Nope I do have this entry in the bad cfg. I've just poked the diff between good cfg and bad one and couldn't find something that catches my eye. I suspect maybe there's some logic that is checking the wrong flag or something. Here's the cfg that reproes (it can repro on stock 1.2.2 as what I just did). HTH.

[sal_vager]

15 minutes ago, FancyMouse said:

Nope I do have this entry in the bad cfg. I've just poked the diff between good cfg and bad one and couldn't find something that catches my eye. I suspect maybe there's some logic that is checking the wrong flag or something. Here's the cfg that reproes (it can repro on stock 1.2.2 as what I just did). HTH.

So then it's a corrupted settings.cfg, easily solved by resetting it, there's a reset button in the settings screen now or the settings.cfg can be deleted, which forces KSP to make a new one.

And copying a 1.2.1 settings.cfg to 1.2.2 doesn't cause this issue, so it's not the code that loads the file.

Something has broken the file for you and a few others, if anyone can find a way to reproduce this I'd like to know, as knowing what caused the file to go bad is essential to finding a way to prevent it.

[FancyMouse]

8 minutes ago, sal_vager said:

if anyone can find a way to reproduce this I'd like to know

okay I thought you have some magic way of efficiently testing the cfg. If not I'll give it a try.

I'm testing the diffs one by one. Fortunately the first one seems a bingo - the bad cfg had VAB_FINE_OFFSET_THRESHOLD = 0.2 while the default value is 20. Probably 0.2 is some old default value. Changing it back to 20 gives the right behavior. I don't know if this value is tweakable in settings window, though...

[sal_vager]

1 minute ago, FancyMouse said:

okay I thought you have some magic way of efficiently testing the cfg. If not I'll give it a try.

I'm testing the diffs one by one. Fortunately the first one seems a bingo - the bad cfg had VAB_FINE_OFFSET_THRESHOLD = 0.2 while the default value is 20. Probably 0.2 is some old default value. Changing it back to 20 gives the right behavior. I don't know if this value is tweakable in settings window, though...

Nope, no fancy ways to do this, just brute force and poking.

It's not a settings screen value no, so only accessible via the file, it might be a relic from KSP before the offset was expanded as you say.