[1.8.x] Kerbal Foundries -- Continued - Tracks, Wheels, and Gear

[Azic Minar]

I've been seeing the issue of the game pausing every 3 seconds while playing when above 90 m/s (most apparent above 200 m/s) and removing click through blocker (CTB) reduces this to once every 6 or 10 seconds. While I didn't notice any difference when I removed KSPI before  removing CTB, I'll try that after sleeping some. I've found most issues come from either KSPI or the Near Future Mods until they get an update, notable with WBI Guppy not submersing for me until both of those got updated. I will update once I figure out where the last bit of incompatibility is, but I'm sure a lot of people will appreciate knowing removing CTB mostly solves the pausing

[TiktaalikDreaming]

200m/s is 720kph.

Let's all pause for six seconds to take that in. That's more than Mach 0.5, on the ground. There's a truck tonne of physics involved and it sounds like there's a bunch of other mods keeping the CPU core busy. While there may be optimisation to be done in some mods, the root cause seems likely just exhaustion of CPU resources inherent in KSP's physics system being focused on one core.

[Azic Minar]

10 hours ago, TiktaalikDreaming said:

200m/s is 720kph.

Let's all pause for six seconds to take that in. That's more than Mach 0.5, on the ground. There's a truck tonne of physics involved and it sounds like there's a bunch of other mods keeping the CPU core busy. While there may be optimisation to be done in some mods, the root cause seems likely just exhaustion of CPU resources inherent in KSP's physics system being focused on one core.

I get that, that's why I'm trying to figure out the exact cause to help others. Is it too many mods, or incompatibility? So far, if I create a two part vehicle and launch it into space with a cheat, I can use any wheel outside of this mod and everything goes just fine. I put a wheel or tread on and I get the slug. 

So far: Removing CTB improves start up time by 1 minute (crazy), reduces how often the issue happens with the wheels (6-10 seconds).
Doing an install integrity verification fixed 3 files and improved it to about 20 seconds to a half minute.
Next up, I looked in the dust color config in the KerbalFoundries folder and saw that there were no definitions for the sky or space, so I took one tread and removed that module from its cfg file. And guess what? No issues now ... and I have a Land Rover with two Mole Tracks in orbit without issues  

And if it still is freezing up, its happening so infrequently now that I'm not noticing it. 

I still want to figure out for sure if its a specific mod interaction.

PS @TiktaalikDreaming I love your rover mod. Makes for fun vehicles!

 

Edit: After stripping mods out and putting them back in, its only problem time with WBI.
I'm totally fine with removing particle effects to enjoy this wonderful mod!

Edited September 30, 2019 by Azic Minar
More information!

[Shadowmage]

45 minutes ago, Azic Minar said:

I get that, that's why I'm trying to figure out the exact cause to help others. Is it too many mods, or incompatibility? So far, if I create a two part vehicle and launch it into space with a cheat, I can use any wheel outside of this mod and everything goes just fine. I put a wheel or tread on and I get the slug. 

So far: Removing CTB improves start up time by 1 minute (crazy), reduces how often the issue happens with the wheels (6-10 seconds).
Doing an install integrity verification fixed 3 files and improved it to about 20 seconds to a half minute.
Next up, I looked in the dust color config in the KerbalFoundries folder and saw that there were no definitions for the sky or space, so I took one tread and removed that module from its cfg file. And guess what? No issues now ... and I have a Land Rover with two Mole Tracks in orbit without issues  

And if it still is freezing up, its happening so infrequently now that I'm not noticing it. 

I still want to figure out for sure if its a specific mod interaction.

PS @TiktaalikDreaming I love your rover mod. Makes for fun vehicles!

 

Edit: After stripping mods out and putting them back in, its only problem time with WBI.
I'm totally fine with removing particle effects to enjoy this wonderful mod!

Ignoring the mach 0.5 on-the-ground (which is crazy fast, and likely to cause problems with KSP physics regardless), I've had previous reports of 'hitches' and 'stalls' when using KF wheels, but have so far been unable to reproduce it locally (could be just hardware differences where I don't notice it).  So you are probably not crazy.

Could you please upload a .craft file of a Stock+KF only craft that exhibits the issues, so that I might duplicate the problem locally?  You can attach the craft file to this issue ticket (Drag+drop into the comment textbox to upload): https://github.com/shadowmage45/KSPWheel/issues/61  If you could also include a listing of the steps that are needed in order to manifest the problem, it would greatly help.

I've tried investigating this problem at least four different times, and each time I end up spending ~2 hours doing debug testing, without the issue showing up.  Likely I'm just testing the wrong things, as I'm fairly certain there is a problem in the mod, only I do not have enough information to know where or what.

[Azic Minar]

59 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

Ignoring the mach 0.5 on-the-ground (which is crazy fast, and likely to cause problems with KSP physics regardless), I've had previous reports of 'hitches' and 'stalls' when using KF wheels, but have so far been unable to reproduce it locally (could be just hardware differences where I don't notice it).  So you are probably not crazy.

Could you please upload a .craft file of a Stock+KF only craft that exhibits the issues, so that I might duplicate the problem locally?  You can attach the craft file to this issue ticket (Drag+drop into the comment textbox to upload): https://github.com/shadowmage45/KSPWheel/issues/61  If you could also include a listing of the steps that are needed in order to manifest the problem, it would greatly help.

I've tried investigating this problem at least four different times, and each time I end up spending ~2 hours doing debug testing, without the issue showing up.  Likely I'm just testing the wrong things, as I'm fairly certain there is a problem in the mod, only I do not have enough information to know where or what.

My Bad, I should have specified I was moving above the ground, not on the ground. Though that is a hilarious thought. I am guilty of rocketing rovers into the water for submersible testing and floatability for future trips to Eve

After testing, I can say that the issue is not happening in stock + KF, at least for me. Maybe if I hadn't done the file integrity fix before stripping out all mods, it might have.

TDLR: particle effects not playing well with other particle effects are the most likely culprit

The long version:
 

Spoiler

I throw a probe or manned command pot with an KF wheel into orbit in test #1 with minimal stuff needed for KF and all is good.
I add some random mods. Do same thing and all is good in orbit.
Remove random Mods
I do stock + minimal stuff needed for KF + Click Through Blocker and send to orbit. Its stuttering worse than I did in second grade. 
Remove CTB.
Retest stock + minimal stuff to run KF. All is still good.
I add any mod that has particle effects for wheels (Like Wild Blue Industries). I send the pod into orbit. Stuttering.
I strip KSPWheelDustEffects from the wheel in the persistent save and reload. No issues.
I try a different KF wheel on same probe and send to orbit. Stutter.
Attack the KF wheel I removed the KSPWheelDustEffects mod from its cfg file and resend to orbit. No issues

If you still want a vehicle file, I'll see about getting you two

To help you test, what do I need to add to the smoke color config for space?

Edited September 30, 2019 by Azic Minar
Question

[Jimbodiah]

@Shadowmage   Maybe try MemGraph?

[Agustin]

Where is that patch for applying the mod to the stock wheels?

WRONG THREAD

Edited October 1, 2019 by Agustin

[Agustin]

Does the last pre-realease version with the new features work in 1.6.1?

[subyng]

27 minutes ago, Agustin said:

Where is that patch for applying the mod to the stock wheels?

WRONG THREAD

Wait, is there a patch that fixes stock wheels??

[Agustin]

46 minutes ago, subyng said:

Wait, is there a patch that fixes stock wheels??

yes, its under a folder on the github page.

Its not inclueded in the GameData fodler. Its before that.

https://github.com/shadowmage45/KerbalFoundries2/tree/master/KerbalFoundries-Patches/Stock

Edited October 1, 2019 by Agustin

[Shadowmage]

3 hours ago, subyng said:

Wait, is there a patch that fixes stock wheels??

Yep

2 hours ago, Agustin said:

yes, its under a folder on the github page.

Its not inclueded in the GameData fodler. Its before that.

https://github.com/shadowmage45/KerbalFoundries2/tree/master/KerbalFoundries-Patches/Stock

Exactly

 

3 hours ago, Agustin said:

Does the last pre-realease version with the new features work in 1.6.1?

Yes.

[subyng]

Thank you so much!!! This mod fantastic!

[TiktaalikDreaming]

On 10/1/2019 at 7:20 AM, Azic Minar said:

I get that, that's why I'm trying to figure out the exact cause to help others. 

PS @TiktaalikDreaming I love your rover mod. Makes for fun vehicles!

No worries.  I was also under the false impression you were doing those speeds while using wheels that were touching the ground.  I was a bit shocked you could find a place flat enough.

The rover mod needs to get some updating love.  It doesn't even have Kerbal Wheels patches.  And it predates a stack of learning things.  It doesn't look absolutely horrible though, so it wasn't on top of my list to fix.  Thanks for mentioning it.

[Azic Minar]

7 hours ago, TiktaalikDreaming said:

No worries.  I was also under the false impression you were doing those speeds while using wheels that were touching the ground.  I was a bit shocked you could find a place flat enough.

The rover mod needs to get some updating love.  It doesn't even have Kerbal Wheels patches.  And it predates a stack of learning things.  It doesn't look absolutely horrible though, so it wasn't on top of my list to fix.  Thanks for mentioning it.

No worries, I should have described what was going on better. The mod looks wonderful, really. Though have you thought about other vehicles to add, like something that resembles a hummer?

[TiktaalikDreaming]

9 hours ago, Azic Minar said:

No worries, I should have described what was going on better. The mod looks wonderful, really. Though have you thought about other vehicles to add, like something that resembles a hummer?

Probably best to take this off this thread, but I've considered other vehicles, but they don't keep the pun going.  More defender variants are far more likely.

[omamiblou]

Concerning the lags while in altitude, I made some test this weekend. In fact, the problem appears even with only the kerbal foundries wheels mod. It can be easily detected with memgraph. In fact, there is a peak of memory consumption along with  garbage collection every second or so as soon as the vehicle reaches around 200m.

Edited October 22, 2019 by omamiblou

[Azic Minar]

On 10/22/2019 at 9:29 AM, omamiblou said:

Concerning the lags while in altitude, I made some test this weekend. In fact, the problem appears even with only the kerbal foundries wheels mod. It can be easily detected with memgraph. In fact, there is a peak of memory consumption along with  garbage collection every second or so as soon as the vehicle reaches around 200m.

That sounds like the problem I was having. I removed KSPWheelDustEffects from the cfg file of the wheels and it went away.

[MedicRules41]

1.8.1 is out! I had KF installed on 1.8.0 and a couple elements of the UI were broken, but without changing anything about my install except Steam auto-updating to 1.8.1, it's back to normal and works just fine.

Edited October 31, 2019 by MedicRules41

[kcs123]

11 hours ago, MedicRules41 said:

1.8.1 is out! I had KF installed on 1.8.0 and a couple elements of the UI were broken, but without changing anything about my install except Steam auto-updating to 1.8.1, it's back to normal and works just fine.

There was issue with stock PAW UI not behaving like it should and like it was behaved prior KSP 1.8.0. That was broken quite a lot mods and mod authors could not do anything to fix it.
From KSP 1.8.1. changelog:

Quote

+++ Mods
* FloatEdit and ScaleEdit PAW prefabs fixed.

I hope that new shaders that comes with KSP 1.8.1. will make life easier for @Shadowmage to maintain KF and related mods.

[themaster401]

Heads up to anyone attempting to use this in their 1.8 installs, wait for an update.

Playing on KSP 1.8, I've narrowed a hang on "Loading Expansions" on the loading screen to this error:

ReflectionTypeLoadException: Exception of type 'System.Reflection.ReflectionTypeLoadException' was thrown.
	System.Reflection.Assembly.GetTypes () (at <ad04dee02e7e4a85a1299c7ee81c79f6>:0)
	AssemblyLoader.GetTypesOfClassesImplementingInterface[T] () (at <5b6ca6486e0b47a1bce39cde5a91b986>:0)
	Expansions.Missions.MissionsUtils.InitialiseAdjusterTypes () (at <5b6ca6486e0b47a1bce39cde5a91b986>:0)
	Expansions.ExpansionsLoader+<LoadExpansions>d__21.MoveNext () (at <5b6ca6486e0b47a1bce39cde5a91b986>:0)
	UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine.InvokeMoveNext (System.Collections.IEnumerator enumerator, System.IntPtr returnValueAddress) (at <5aeafee3fea24f37abd1315553f2cfa6>:0)

 

See also:

 

 

[Jacke]

2 hours ago, themaster401 said:

Heads up to anyone attempting to use this in their 1.8 installs, wait for an update.

Playing on KSP 1.8, I've narrowed a hang on "Loading Expansions" on the loading screen to this error:

ReflectionTypeLoadException: Exception of type 'System.Reflection.ReflectionTypeLoadException' was thrown.
	System.Reflection.Assembly.GetTypes () (at <ad04dee02e7e4a85a1299c7ee81c79f6>:0)
	AssemblyLoader.GetTypesOfClassesImplementingInterface[T] () (at <5b6ca6486e0b47a1bce39cde5a91b986>:0)
	Expansions.Missions.MissionsUtils.InitialiseAdjusterTypes () (at <5b6ca6486e0b47a1bce39cde5a91b986>:0)
	Expansions.ExpansionsLoader+<LoadExpansions>d__21.MoveNext () (at <5b6ca6486e0b47a1bce39cde5a91b986>:0)
	UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine.InvokeMoveNext (System.Collections.IEnumerator enumerator, System.IntPtr returnValueAddress) (at <5aeafee3fea24f37abd1315553f2cfa6>:0)

 

You might also want to talk to @Lisias and skim over this topic, which is more about what testing code written by @sarbian in MechJeb (and now also ModuleManager) has revealed about issues affecting the Reflection code.

 

[Lisias]

1 hour ago, Jacke said:

You might also want to talk to @Lisias and skim over this topic, 

It's less hairy than it appears. We are somewhat lost on this due misdiagnosis and lack of diagnosing tools - both issues deeply related.

We already have a confirmed root cause, I'm writing a report right now. What I need to do next is validating the tools we have now to avoid losing time on finger pointing.

Most alleged culprits ends up being Screaming Victims - and once we need the help of the Victims to solve the problem, it's usually a good idea avoiding accusing them!

[DoctorDavinci]

10 minutes ago, Lisias said:

It's less hairy than it appears. We are somewhat lost on this due misdiagnosis and lack of diagnosing tools - both issues deeply related.

We already have a confirmed root cause, I'm writing a report right now. What I need to do next is validating the tools we have now to avoid losing time on finger pointing.

Most alleged culprits ends up being Screaming Victims - and once we need the help of the Victims to solve the problem, it's usually a good idea avoiding accusing them!

Not sure but the Unity manual may be of assistance ... Came across this in my digging around while looking for a solution to a similar problem

https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/ScriptingRestrictions.html

[sarbian]

For now what I would like to see is what the last ModuleManager report on those installs. Just update MM and wait for the extension load. It should display a message in the lower part of the screen (and the log)

[Lisias]

1 hour ago, DoctorDavinci said:

Not sure but the Unity manual may be of assistance ... Came across this in my digging around while looking for a solution to a similar problem

It's something borking, without any doubt. However, it's plain possible that such Borker would be borking due something else borking "on the right time", triggering some misbehaviour on the stack, and then we have a Screaming Victim and not a Perpetrator.

Even Squad's Modules can kill the loading thread if you induce them to bork the right way on the right time, so it's not a "outdated mods" problem - they are just the preferred victims.