tater Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 (edited) Edited October 21, 2017 by tater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Announced right after BO’s engine update, hmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exoscientist Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 9 hours ago, tater said: Perhaps they see the advantage of such a BFR point-to-point transport. http://www.astronautix.com/i/ithacus.html Bob Clark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSEP Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 On 18/10/2017 at 1:50 PM, MatterBeam said: With its 375s Isp Raptor engines, it has 9693m/s of deltaV. RSS players know you can reach orbit with about 9400m/s of deltaV Im a RSS player and i barely can even get to orbit with 10km/s USAF found another launch vehicle to launch their spysats on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exoscientist Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 The SpaceX BFR tanker can serve as a reusable SSTO by switching to a winged, horizontal landing mode: SpaceX BFR tanker as an SSTO. https://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2017/10/spacex-bfr-tanker-as-ssto.html Bob Clark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 38 minutes ago, Exoscientist said: The SpaceX BFR tanker can serve as a reusable SSTO by switching to a winged, horizontal landing mode: SpaceX BFR tanker as an SSTO. https://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2017/10/spacex-bfr-tanker-as-ssto.html Bob Clark Two issues, first is ISP and trust will not be vacuum with atmospheric engines, yes you can add two vacuum engines you fire up then high enough and then shut down the atmospheric ones as you get lighter and don't need the trust anymore, the data looks pretty good as in 25 ton payload to 400 km with 360 in ISP and 50 ton dry mass. An winged option is interesting, yes you save fuel, also larger surface area for reentry making heat shield thinner. Downside is an unique craft but the ssto will be an new craft anyway, you want spare fuel for an escape to orbit option if problems like loosing engine at launch, not sure how much fuel it will need to land as its suposed to use drag until subsonic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatterBeam Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 11 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said: Announced right after BO’s engine update, hmm... A good thing! It just goes to show how much SpaceX has shaken up the market by moving it back into the competitive industry it should have always been. It means that there are multiple players and the US Government is not the sole source of money - in other words, spending your R&D budget on lobbyists is no longer a winning move. 9 hours ago, Exoscientist said: Perhaps they see the advantage of such a BFR point-to-point transport. http://www.astronautix.com/i/ithacus.html Bob Clark Maybe the BFR won't be allowed to carry civilians for a long time or even land near cities, but rapid transport of 100 tons of cargo is very valuable. Imagine shortening the supply chain on valuable items to 30 minutes! Troops will accept risks civilians won't, so good idea. 1 hour ago, Exoscientist said: The SpaceX BFR tanker can serve as a reusable SSTO by switching to a winged, horizontal landing mode: SpaceX BFR tanker as an SSTO. https://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2017/10/spacex-bfr-tanker-as-ssto.html Bob Clark Reading that. Will comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 2 hours ago, MatterBeam said: Maybe the BFR won't be allowed to carry civilians for a long time or even land near cities, but rapid transport of 100 tons of cargo is very valuable. Imagine shortening the supply chain on valuable items to 30 minutes! This. This is where I think the initial market for rapid point-to-point transportation is. The first such BFS’s will be painted brown, blue & orange, not airline white. My wife works in the industry, and she agrees there’s definitely a niche waiting to be filled there. There are lots of times when goods need to be there now and cost is really no object. Ie, right now there’s really no such thing as overnight cargo from Seattle to Singapore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubinator Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Can't wait to get my Chinese speedcubes delivered by spaceship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Steve Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 43 minutes ago, cubinator said: Can't wait to get my Chinese speedcubes delivered by spaceship. I just want a T-shirt that truthfully says "THIS T-SHIRT HAS BEEN IN SPACE." I'd pay $1000 for it, no joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, Ultimate Steve said: I just want a T-shirt that truthfully says "THIS T-SHIRT HAS BEEN IN SPACE." I'd pay $1000 for it, no joke. More epic than my occupy mars t-shirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSEP Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Ultimate Steve said: I just want a T-shirt that truthfully says "THIS T-SHIRT HAS BEEN IN SPACE." I'd pay $1000 for it, no joke. I want a shirt that is covered in moon regolith, or a packet of moon dust that i can throw on people wich gives me the ability easily rip open their skin. Edited October 22, 2017 by NSEP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Steve Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, NSEP said: I want a shirt that is covered in moon regolith, or a packet of moon dust that i can throw on people wich gives me the ability easily rip open their skin. *Slowly backs away for fear my skin will get ripped open* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Well... that escalated quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Steve Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 30 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said: Well... that escalated quickly. I would pay $999,999,999,999,999,999,999 for an escalator that has been in the center of Saturn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Well, that’s an improvement. Last I hear the OctaGrabber went for a swim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racescort666 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 20 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said: This. This is where I think the initial market for rapid point-to-point transportation is. The first such BFS’s will be painted brown, blue & orange, not airline white. My wife works in the industry, and she agrees there’s definitely a niche waiting to be filled there. There are lots of times when goods need to be there now and cost is really no object. Ie, right now there’s really no such thing as overnight cargo from Seattle to Singapore. This happens from time to time in automotive. Like, it's cheaper to fill up the corporate jet with tail light assemblies and fly it to Mexico than to have the assembly line stop due to a parts shortage. So yes, literally chartering a jet to get parts on time is cheaper than having an assembly line stoppage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerbal01 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Per NSF public side updates thread, SF thursday, launch still the 30th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubinator Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 3 hours ago, tater said: snip Is that Block 5 they are referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 I think so, yeah. But the goal of effectively no refurb is what I was expecting given a "24 hour turn around" that they say they are going for. So a team of XX people, working 3 man-days each (8 hr days) is the total cost to refly a 1st stage. That's not a lot of money, even at ridiculously high rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAL59 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 On 10/22/2017 at 10:19 AM, Exoscientist said: SSTO Elon Musk has confirmed that the BFR is an SSTO without the booster, no need for winged landing. It can't carry any cargo though. The spaceship will be launched by itself as the worlds second(ARCA will launch next year) SSTO before the booster is finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exoscientist Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 5 hours ago, DAL59 said: Elon Musk has confirmed that the BFR is an SSTO without the booster, no need for winged landing. It can't carry any cargo though. The spaceship will be launched by itself as the worlds second(ARCA will launch next year) SSTO before the booster is finished. Actually what he said in the video presentation is that the BFR upper stage can be SSTO but the full two-stage BFR can carry more than an order of magnitude more payload. Since the payload for the reusable two-stage BFR is 150 tons, the payload for the BFR upper stage as a reusable SSTO might be, say, 10 to 15 tons. Part of the calculation in my blog post was to suggest using winged landing for the SSTO you might lose less of the payload in the reusable case. I estimate less than 10% loss with winged landing, as opposed to 70% to 80% loss with the vertical, propulsive landing approach. If this is true you might want to make also the lower stage do a winged landing. For instance if the 10% loss using winged landing also holds for the two-stage BFR, then instead of losing 40% payload from 250 tons to 150 tons for reusability, it would be only 10% loss from 250 tons to 225 tons. So it is important to do such trades between the different landing modes to see which would result in the smallest loss in payload for reusability. Bob Clark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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