Boring company

[tater]

A "walking city" is one that is either compact enough to easily walk across, has nice, pedestrian-friendly sidewalks/businesses, or ideally both. Public transit availability is also part of this equation, though I walk far more than I use Muni in SFO, or subways in NYC (though I use both enough to appreciate them).

Musk's LA solution---to move the cars---makes some sense to me because of the (truly awful) nature of LA (a city I hate). LA, like my own small city, has wide streets, and businesses with their own parking lots. This means any sidewalks are by definition well away from the businesses they are in front of. Street, sidewalk, parking lot, business. This is NOT pedestrian friendly as the people are exposed to the street, and the parking lot on the other side means they are in a sea of asphalt, exposed to the sun, wind, etc. In a real city, it's street, sidewalk, building. You are protected some of the time from wind/sun by the building along the sidewalk, you can pick which side of the street you prefer (sun or shade, wind or lee) half the time. In LA, this is not a thing, so the mass transit needs to drag the car that is required along with the person. I think this would be unnecessary if the city was prowled by self-driving vehicles at most people's beck and call, since they could exit transit used for long distance, then hop in an uber-like self-driving car, and o the last distance to their destination.

 

 

[StrandedonEarth]

8 minutes ago, tater said:

if the city was prowled by self-driving vehicles at most people's beck and call, since they could exit transit used for long distance, then hop in an uber-like self-driving car, and o the last distance to their destination.

That would be ideal. The lack of transit in some areas around here is appalling, including an industrial area beside a highway with absolutely no bus service. Which forces anyone working there (like myself) into a car. I can't believe the lack of planning there.

I wonder how suitable the Fraser Valley is for tunnel boring, as there's a lot of aquifers to avoid. A lot of it could be cut/cover or at grade, but it would be handy to bore through some ridges. And it would be great to avoid something as expensive as SkyTrain, when nobody around here can agree on how to fund anything anyways.

[YNM]

5 hours ago, tater said:

What big roads in sfo do you mean? California St? Market? There are only a few, and 4 lanes is not a big deal, most nyc avenues are wider, and I walk everywhere in the City.

The entirety of Manhattan being one-way roads designed to maximize traffic capacity while causing problemS with other stuff crossing it.

SFO have areas where you have grids of 4 lane roads every 300 m like here.

Proper "walking city" would be one where driving is a little bit more strenuous than taking PT or walking. Even cities here where I live have some element of that, though the high ownership of motorcycles sort of defeat the narrow roads' opposition to vehicular traffic.

[tater]

1 hour ago, YNM said:

The entirety of Manhattan being one-way roads designed to maximize traffic capacity while causing problemS with other stuff crossing it.

I never have any problem crossing the street in the City. Have you actually spent time there? I grew up outside NYC, and we were in the city literally every weekend, and many weekdays. Car travel is a nightmare, people walk where they want, and the vehicles wait. I walk the entire length of Manhattan, literally every time I go there (Battery to Midtown and beyond).

1 hour ago, YNM said:

SFO have areas where you have grids of 4 lane roads every 300 m like here.

Those look like streets to me, I've walked those streets. I'm not seeing your point. If a walking city requires it to look like the souk in Fes or Marakech, then it's not a walking city. It's one to ME, we go there most every year (I'll be there in May, should anyone want to get a drink!) at least once, and we rented a car one day, to visit relatives in Palo Alto after visiting the redwoods (opposite directions, but it worked).

1 hour ago, YNM said:

Proper "walking city" would be one where driving is a little bit more strenuous than taking PT or walking. Even cities here where I live have some element of that, though the high ownership of motorcycles sort of defeat the narrow roads' opposition to vehicular traffic.

I never drive in NYC, or in SFO. I rarely will lyft or take a taxi, usually after a long day when we've managed to get FAR from where we are staying. That includes trips with toddlers (who we made walk, too, lol). I bet I've spent 2 years worth of days in NYC, BTW, and only a few months worth of days in SFO.

I favorably compared Genova to San Francisco, for example (Genova was awesome, felt very real, and non-touristy). I walked a lot in Bangkok, too, though I consider Hong Kong more of a walking city. Funny story. HK has some huge streets, and when I was there (British HK), they drove on the left (dunno about now). I dutifully looked left on the huge 1 way street in front of where we were staying in Kowloon, and started to step in front of a moving bus. My buddy literally yanked me by the backpack, saving my life. Lesson learned.

[YNM]

@tater Unfortunately,  I haven't went to any of those places.

It is true that "walking city" could take many form. Take Singapore. Singapore isn't a walking city because it has the smallest of roads, the widest of pavements and the frendliest of drivers - it's a walking city because of lots of PT and interconnected buildings, even across the street (street crossing originally are rare and jaywalking is prohibited - only in later times where a lot of their "neighboring" populace went to their place only did they re-introduce street crossing and tolerates a bit of jaywalking in some sites). Many people consider a lot of old European cities to be walking cities, even London is well within the definition despite the extremely bizzare staggered street crossings.

One thing I see in common - they have wide places for walking and facilitates the change from other modes to walking, and distances are rather small for walking (otherwise PT is available). While you could say the parks of NYC to count, mid-town it's not entirely that way as I see it. Not to mention that most of the populace probably comes from off the island.

SFO might have some walking vistas but I question everyone will take it, esp. those from afar.

[DAL59]

I got my hat!

[YNM]

NOW I'm in favor of this.

Go and spend the whole of your 21 billions sir, your name will be as huge as Isambard Kingdom Brunel...

[cubinator]

https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/978140940241059840

The latest step in Elon's mastermind plan, bricks made from excavated dirt. Gee, that seems like it would be awfully practical on a certain red planet with lots of dirt...

I like the idea of people living in pyramids on Mars.

[FleshJeb]

7 hours ago, cubinator said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/978140940241059840

The latest step in Elon's mastermind plan, bricks made from excavated dirt. Gee, that seems like it would be awfully practical on a certain red planet with lots of dirt...

I like the idea of people living in pyramids on Mars.

Rocks, otherwise known as aggregate. That Elon, soooo innovative:

http://www.keystonewalls.com/keystones-history

[YNM]

9 hours ago, cubinator said:

bricks made from excavated dirt.

For holding compressive loads they are very good.

For holding tensile and bending loads, good luck with that.

 

EDIT : Not to mention, soils in LA are mostly loams or silt. I haven't seen a brick made of one.

Edited March 27, 2018 by YNM

[PB666]

2 hours ago, YNM said:

For holding compressive loads they are very good.

For holding tensile and bending loads, good luck with that.

 

EDIT : Not to mention, soils in LA are mostly loams or silt. I haven't seen a brick made of one.

You mean clay brick, you can make bricks out of just about any soil with high inorganic content with the addition of sufficient heat or lime. Hear they make bricks out of colored concrete. 

[YNM]

34 minutes ago, PB666 said:

You mean clay brick, you can make bricks out of just about any soil with high inorganic content with the addition of sufficient heat or lime.

Well, definitely not just compressed/dried bricks (the old way). I heard they plan to somehow use the excavated materials to make this "brick" and line the tunnels itself with it.

36 minutes ago, PB666 said:

Hear they make bricks out of colored concrete.

Guess where the cement comes from.

[kerbiloid]

12 hours ago, cubinator said:

The latest step in Elon's mastermind plan, bricks made from excavated dirt. Gee, that seems like it would be awfully practical on a certain red planet with lots of dirt...

Spoiler

On da road to Mars.

 

[tater]

^^^that's what my house is made of.

[kerbiloid]

1 minute ago, tater said:

^^^that's what my house is made of.

My grannies' house, too.

2 hours ago, YNM said:

Guess where the cement comes from.

Straw from greenhouse and dung from habitat.

The first Martain base - Manure Manor.

P.S.

Spoiler

.

[YNM]

49 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

On da road to Mars.

Spoiler

 

See, you can't quite do them with sands...

 

45 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Straw from greenhouse and dung from habitat.

The first Martain base - Manure Manor.

That sounds like a very bad plan. Unless made underground (where the resultant compression from soil weight would hopefully equalize the tension), such pressurized structures holds shearing forces, which gave rise to tensile flow.

A bad no-no for masonry sturctures.

Edited March 27, 2018 by YNM

[kerbiloid]

3 minutes ago, YNM said:

That sounds like a very bad plan. Unless made underground (where the resultant compression from soil weight would hopefully equalize the tension), such pressurized structures holds shearing forces, which gave rise to tensile flow.

Depends on ration.

[YNM]

7 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Depends on ration.

"Ration" what ? You mean composition ?

Composition has very little impact for them. The reason why concrete are almost always installed with some form of reinforcing bars or plates is because they can't handle *any* amount of tensile stress. They're brittle. The moment you try to pull them they just cracks and break.

[PB666]

12 hours ago, YNM said:

Well, definitely not just compressed/dried bricks (the old way). I heard they plan to somehow use the excavated materials to make this "brick" and line the tunnels itself with it.

Guess where the cement comes from.

Our cement largely comes from  the Hill country. Take limestone, heat it to 1000'F, it decomposes to CaO, Silicon Dioxide is made from finely ground quartz or sand. Auminum oxides are imported or can come from aluminum silicate clays. 

Major ingredient in the cement is denatured Limestone. In fact the Mortar brick itself, by components, sources to limestone, sand.

 

10 hours ago, tater said:

^^^that's what my house is made of.

Thats Adobe, as in when in rains, someone is giong to have to do some patchwork.

 

[PB666]

2 hours ago, YNM said:

"Ration" what ? You mean composition ?

Composition has very little impact for them. The reason why concrete are almost always installed with some form of reinforcing bars or plates is because they can't handle *any* amount of tensile stress. They're brittle. The moment you try to pull them they just cracks and break.

Concrete is stronger than you think if cured properly, it just doesn't handle twisting and pulling forces for any length of time. As it gets older it becomes harder (for about 50 years) and as such it looses all elasticity.  If you go out to 8 inch non-reinforced concrete and try to bust it up with a 16 lb sledgehammer, its going to win, and you are going to be blistered. On the same token if you hang that concrete over a 2 foot ledge and come back in three or four years chances are it will have cracked or broken off on its own. Concrete is fickle like that.

An example of a stable concrete structure. Not sure how versed Romans were in reinforcing

Edited March 28, 2018 by PB666

[YNM]

1 hour ago, PB666 said:

Aluminum oxides are imported or can come from aluminum silicate clays.

... not silt or loam.

1 hour ago, PB666 said:

An example of a stable concrete structure. Not sure how versed Romans were in reinforcing

That is a dome under self-weight. The members are generally under compression.

Not the case in a pressurized vessel. Imagine making a high-pressure tank out of bricks.

Edited March 28, 2018 by YNM

[tater]

[snip]

My neighbor's (huge) house is built with Rastra, which are insulated concrete forms. I have seen other, modern block materials that combine insulation with concrete (stacked, then stuccoed over). The Boring Company page has a pic of a table made of bricks:

Edited April 1, 2018 by Vanamonde

[YNM]

47 minutes ago, tater said:

The Boring Company page has a pic of a table made of bricks:

Interesting, apparently it is mixed with something, not just soil.

'Ol clay bricks :

Concrete (cement ? mortar ?) bricks ("batako") :

Edited March 28, 2018 by YNM

[kerbiloid]

[snip]

On 3/27/2018 at 7:00 PM, PB666 said:

Thats Adobe, as in when in rains, someone is giong to have to do some patchwork.

Really? My grandparents' house has been built in 1950s and was never patched. Still strong. Rains, frosts, hot sun, _{meteorite storms} so on. Depends on builders.
Just don't forget to put a roof and plaster over.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Vanamonde

[YNM]

2 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Adobe (not company) is made of clay+sand, straw, dung. So, what they ate, in that they live.

Yeah.

But they aren't quite on the list of *structural* materials anymore. "Construction" maybe, but no longer structural.