cloud savegame backups

[Stefano Balzarotti]

I suggest to add support for cloud savegames.
Steamcloud is an option, but not everyone use steam, but It should be not hard to implement from scratch.
You can use google cloud API or other services if you don't want setup a server.
I know I can create a symlink and sync manually with onedrive, dropbox, etc... but this way is tricky for many users.
And it's very bad when you lose months of playing.
 

[micha]

The simplest way for KSP to "Support" cloud saving would be for the game to have a setting for the location of the "saves" folder. Then people can use whatever cloud backup they want.

For it to work "properly" there would also need to be a way to mark "essential" mods (ie, part mods) for each save, and for mods to save all of their settings and state either in the save file directly, or in the "saves" folder instead of inside "GameData".

 

 

[Rocket In My Pocket]

1 hour ago, Stefano Balzarotti said:

Steamcloud is an option, but not everyone use steam

No actually it isn't.

KSP doesn't support Steam cloud syncing.

3rd party upload sites are your only option for the foreseeable future.

[Geonovast]

3 hours ago, micha said:

The simplest way for KSP to "Support" cloud saving would be for the game to have a setting for the location of the "saves" folder.

This would be a great idea in general.  Until I started modding, I really wanted to be able to put my saves on a network drive to be able to access them from my desktop or my laptop.

4 hours ago, Stefano Balzarotti said:

I suggest to add support for cloud savegames.

Is there are reason you specifically want a cloud backup?  Or are you just looking for some kind of auto backup?

Remember:

[Stefano Balzarotti]

3 hours ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

No actually it isn't.

KSP doesn't support Steam cloud syncing.

I mentioned SteamCloud because there many users asking for that, personally I prefer a custom cloud backup that works on any distribution of the game.

 

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The simplest way for KSP to "Support" cloud saving would be for the game to have a setting for the location of the "saves" folder. Then people can use whatever cloud backup they want.

I love this idea, but an integrated cloud is easier and nicer to see.
 

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Is there are reason you specifically want a cloud backup?  Or are you just looking for some kind of auto backup?

I already have an auto-backup solution with Acronis on external disk, but it's not the same as a cloud solution.
With cloud you can implement auto-syncing among devices with zero configuration (except for login).
It can also be used to track legal copies of the game. 

[pandaman]

Save to cloud - yay!  I can retrieve it anywhere anytime.

Lost internet connection - boo! 

As a backup method yes, decent idea.  Why not have it as an option, except that we already do, it's called 'copy and paste' to anywhere you like.

I agree with the idea of having setting for determining where to save to.  That would be handy for when new versions are installed to.  Just set it to your usual folder and 'voila' you can access your saves.

[steve_v]

Why bother? If you want "cloud" backups, there are many solutions available already - just add your KSP saves directory to whatever client you use. If it doesn't support custom directories, use symlinks... or get a better sync client.
Better still, add it to a proper version control system like git.
I really don't get this current obsession with "clouds" anyway. Files are files and you can put them wherever you want, including on someone else's machine - if you like having your stuff on a storage system you have zero control over and require and internet connection to access.

Improvements to the save/load system I can dig, but this 'aint one.

 

2 hours ago, Stefano Balzarotti said:

I love this idea, but an integrated cloud is easier and nicer to see.

If you make something idiot proof, only idiots will want to use it.
If one can figure out orbital mechanics, putting save files where you want them can't be that hard.
I don't see a positive cost/benefit ratio here at all.

 

2 hours ago, Stefano Balzarotti said:

It can also be used to track legal copies of the game. 

The moment KSP/Squad starts "tracking" anything is the moment I delete the thing - permanently. Add the term "legal copies" and you're one step away from DRM.
How is this an advantage of cloud saves?

[Stefano Balzarotti]

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Lost internet connection - boo! 

If you sync files with a cloud storage doesn't means the connection is required to play, your saves are still available offline.

 

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Why bother? If you want "cloud" backups, there are many solutions available already - just add your KSP saves directory to whatever client you use. If it doesn't support custom directories, use symlinks... or get a better sync client.

I know, I've already my backup system, but why I need to waste my time for managing save files, this a game not a job, and we are in 2017, cloud exist to simplify the life.
 

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I really don't get this current obsession with "clouds" anyway.

clouds is not an obsession, cloud  has provided an easier way to handle many things, the drop in the cost of storage and datacenter management, the increase of global bandwidth has decreed the success of the cloud.

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If you make something idiot proof, only idiots will want to use it.
If one can figure out orbital mechanics, putting save files where you want them can't be that hard.

1.  this is game and there people that plays to only to have fun without understanding orbital mechanics.
2. I use git for many things, I am a developer , I already have GFS backup system for my pc and other devices, but the question is, why I should prefer an hard way to a easy way to manage things?
3. If you want to limit this game only to nerds, why wasting time to developing a launcher screen and a setting menu? the game can still be played if launched from terminal, and you can setup your configuration editing files...

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I don't see a positive cost/benefit ratio here at all.

How is this an advantage of cloud saves?

Developing a basic system to sync files does not cost more than two days of development, there are many ready good library that works with unity, and server are cheap today.
Requiring an account and checking the license server side is the only way to monitor the piracy.
You can't stop piracy, developing a DRM system is only a waste of time, but giving an added value to legal copies is the only way to combat piracy, and this can be done only with a cloud service.
I tried the pirated copy, and I can tell you there is no difference with the original, I bought this game because I love it and I want support the development, but there are users who do not think the same way.
 

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he moment KSP/Squad starts "tracking" anything is the moment I delete the thing - permanently. Add the term "legal copies" and you're one step away from DRM.

What's your problem? if you take so much privacy probably you should not even have an account on this forum.
And in any case cloud should be a feature not a requirement, the game should also work offline, so I you don't want be tracked, simply you should avoid to setup an account.

[micha]

You're arguing on the one side for cloud as a way to track legal copies, and then turn around and say it should be an option.

Tracking doesn't work that way, or at least, adding cloud save as a tracking feature doesn't add anything if it's optional since Squad already knows their sales figures. It might give some usage statistics, but that's all.

I really don't see the need/point to integrate a cloud feature into the game directly. Doing so will force users into the particular cloud solution(s) which the game would support meaning people would likely have to sign up and create Yet Another Account for.

Adding the capability to -easily- use players' existing cloud solutions though is another thing, and that's what I suggested could be trivially supported by simply providing a setting as to where to save the game. Yes, you can achieve the same with symlinks, but on Windows at least that's a PITA and most users aren't that technical. Again, you can copy-paste, but that's a bunch of extra steps before starting and after stopping the game.

 

PS. While somewhat useful, I'm also on the "what clouds" bandwagon. It's just a slightly different take on client-server computing from the 60's.

[Stefano Balzarotti]

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You're arguing on the one side for cloud as a way to track legal copies, and then turn around and say it should be an option.

Cloud should be an option, I and most users don't like to be always online to play.
Tracking legal copies I don't know if it's feasible because I don't know how they manage licenses and accounts.
They should create a database and link cloud accounts and that requires a key (maybe the email??) to correlate them but I don't know if they have enough data to do.
But if they can provide some cloud services like cloud backup only to legal copies would be a great feature.

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I really don't see the need/point to integrate a cloud feature into the game directly. Doing so will force users into the particular cloud solution(s) which the game would support meaning people would likely have to sign up and create Yet Another Account for.

There are many options to do, probably using a steam or google account is the easy way to implement. But I agree that is no a good idea to force users into particular cloud solution.
I prefer Squad creates a custom account/cloud system, they can share the same account for cloud and this forum and maybe for other future services like a mod marketplace, etc...

 

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Adding the capability to -easily- use players' existing cloud solutions though is another thing, and that's what I suggested could be trivially supported by simply providing a setting as to where to save the game.

I approve your suggestion, I prefer to have also a  cloud solution.

 

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It's just a slightly different take on client-server computing from the 60's

1. Cloud in fact is a client-server infrastructure, the word "cloud" today is common used because in this days the server is no more a physical server machine, but often hides a complex network infrastructure.
2. lol maybe 90' or '80', in the 60' internet  was not even born, unless you mean the mainframe-terminal architecture...

[steve_v]

12 hours ago, Stefano Balzarotti said:

the game can still be played if launched from terminal, and you can setup your configuration editing files

I do, and I do.
 

12 hours ago, Stefano Balzarotti said:

Developing a basic system to sync files does not cost more than two days of development, there are many ready good library that works with unity, and server are cheap today.

ROFL. With any other devs I would tend to agree. Squad used to have a game updater based on rsync, but it was too much work to maintain, apparently.
What makes you think this will be any different?

 

12 hours ago, Stefano Balzarotti said:

Requiring an account and checking the license server side is the only way to monitor the piracy.

I buy only software that has no DRM, and doesn't phone home. Squad implements either of these and I'm out.
Don't like that? Tough. I don't like being treated as a criminal by default, and having to "prove" I'm a legitimate customer with online licence checks.

 

12 hours ago, Stefano Balzarotti said:

giving an added value to legal copies is the only way to combat piracy

Sure. See the above comment on "phoning home"

 

12 hours ago, Stefano Balzarotti said:

I tried the pirated copy, and I can tell you there is no difference with the original

Of course there isn't. This game contains no DRM, and that's one of the reasons I am willing to pay for it.

12 hours ago, Stefano Balzarotti said:

I bought this game because I love it and I want support the development

Ditto.

12 hours ago, Stefano Balzarotti said:

there are users who do not think the same way

Not my problem. I object to having to prove my legit customer status. Legal systems around the world use an "innocent until proven guilty" system, software doesn't get to be different.

 

8 hours ago, Stefano Balzarotti said:

But if they can provide some cloud services like cloud backup only to legal copies would be a great feature.

Like the "prerelease only for Steam customers" thing they did?
Seeing how "perks for players who use a certain service" turned out last time is only a forum search away.
If you're intending to implement it for everyone, that means tying it into accounts on Steam, GOG, the various console platforms, and Squads own store. Too much hassle if you ask me.

 

8 hours ago, Stefano Balzarotti said:

There are many options to do, probably using a steam or google account is the easy way to implement. But I agree that is no a good idea to force users into particular cloud solution.
I prefer Squad creates a custom account/cloud system

How is "custom account/cloud system" not "force users into particular cloud solution"? This paragraph is a contradiction.
I have a "cloud" of my own. On my own server. Will it support that too?
I don't have a Google account, I don't have a Steam account, I don't want either.

Why waste developer time on something that isn't difficult to do yourself? I'd much rather they spend time fixing the game engine.
I can think of at least 10 ways to do "cloud" saves without any work from Squad, using readily available software. Again, why bother?
 

8 hours ago, Stefano Balzarotti said:

in this days the server is no more a physical server machine, but often hides a complex network infrastructure.

It's always a physical machine. The disks are somewhere. It might be going through 3 frontends before it hits a SAN, but it's still someone else's machine somewhere.

IME, "cloud" is a buzzword used by sales reps when they're trying to sign you up for a subscription, nothing more.

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TL,DR:
If "online licence check" is one of your primary reasons for suggesting cloud saves, then I'm 100% against it on principle.
If this was the devs intent they'd just sell their stuff on steam and be done with it, rather than reinventing the wheel. And they'd be short one customer.
There are more important things to be working on anyway.
 

9 hours ago, micha said:

Adding the capability to -easily- use players' existing cloud solutions though is another thing, and that's what I suggested could be trivially supported by simply providing a setting as to where to save the game.

100% this ^. Less work, same benefit, no tracking garbage.

Edited October 21, 2017 by steve_v