The KSP Caveman Challenge 1.3.x - 1.10.x [re-booted]

[Jacke]

2 hours ago, IncongruousGoat said:

You don't. At least, you don't use a cage like that first one I built. The more aerodynamic, lower-mass way is to just use a "cage" made out of two capsules. There should be screenshots of such cages in any of the NCD reports (we all ended up using them). They're still not great to fly, but at least they can be put in orbit without Terriers.

And that works much better.  Thanks!

BTW, I've just put out a corrected and improved edition of my KSP Science Checklists.  Many corrections and improvements, especially covering KSC science.

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Jacke

[zanie420]

7 hours ago, The Dunatian said:

Ready and waiting to review. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Final album is up
https://imgur.com/a/bKE9WPw

I think I may take a break from KSP.... LOL

[Mr. Peabody]

@zanie420, Congratulations on completing Nano-Diamond level! It is my honor to present you with the "Order of the Trilobite" for interplanetary travel & completing nanocrystalline diamond. You may claim your badges from the OP. Unga Bunga Unga Unga! 

I think I can leave this here...

Spoiler

 

 

[MinimalMinmus]

Just for it to be clear: I am not throwing the towel, but after the last time I need a break. Also, holidays incoming.

 

Also, it was Jeb that I lost, not val. My bad.

[Jacke]

So I'm wondering what's the effect of skipping extra-Kerbin EVA Reports.  Hmmm, to compare, I'll have to sum up experiment Science and see what's there for non-EVA and EVA.  Hmmm, that's a lot of subtotals and totals, better use a spreadsheet....  And I have a spreadsheet.

Another new release of my KSP Science Checklists.  Now with experiment Science totals, by experiment and situation, as well as grand totals, for each body.  I also put in a grand total per body for the Caveman Challenge, only summing Crew Reports, EVA Reports, Mystery Goo, Temperature, Pressure, and Materials.

Numbers are for 100% science, so NCD will be 10% of the numbers on the sheets.

Spoiler

EDIT: Just put out a corrected release.  Had the wrong value for Kerbin's Flying Threshold (was 25,000m, correct is 18,000m).  Found that out just after reentry of my first Kerbin orbiter.  Thought such a glaring error demanded an immediate fix.

EDIT: And another to fix Laythe's Science Parameters.  Hopefully that fixes the errors introduced by the big changes for the Science totals.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Jacke

[dvader]

On 2/13/2019 at 3:37 AM, zanie420 said:

Final album is up
https://imgur.com/a/bKE9WPw

I think I may take a break from KSP.... LOL

Well done! I liked how you used a protractor taped to the screen. I used a paper which was just transparent enough to see through (although version 2 had holes in it). My only objection is that the Eve-Gilly craft looks way too nice for a caveman!  (I really should try lawn assembly some day...)

You may rest now

 

 

[Jacke]

This morning, just completed the 10th mission of my NCD run.  So I thought I'd better organize my mission screenshots into something presentable.

Got them all roughed out (interesting how I have extra screenshots yet still miss important mission moments), but I want to go over them again before uploading.

However, I think this morning's 10th mission is one that you may not have seen before, so I thought I should work on it and share it out.  So here it is.

I had a contract offered to survey a sector near the Island Airfield under 16,700m.  And that reminded me of an old BTSM mission years ago to the Island Airfield.  So I took what I knew of that and make my Caveman mission both get the survey and Island Airfield science.

Album for my 2015 Better Than Starting Manned military mission to strike a target on the Island Airfield.

Teaser

Spoiler

Album for my Caveman LCD Mission 10 to survey and land at the Island Airfield for Science!

Teaser

Spoiler

Both really do need some more editting.

EDIT: I've done some image adjustment on the Caveman gallery images (including the teaser) to improve visibility in the darkness.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Jacke

[Jacke]

Finally got caught up with the screenshot albums of my LCD career so far.  Will post them here.

Have done my 11th mission, a Mun flyby.  Now that the albums are up to date, I can think of getting on to the next mission.

[cy4n]

In keeping with the spirit of the original Caveman Challenge, both because the original Caveman Challenge was done in 1.0.4, and because of the 'Caveman' in the name, would it be allowed for me to complete the challenge in 1.0.5?

[Mr. Peabody]

5 hours ago, cy4n said:

In keeping with the spirit of the original Caveman Challenge, both because the original Caveman Challenge was done in 1.0.4, and because of the 'Caveman' in the name, would it be allowed for me to complete the challenge in 1.0.5?

I don't really see why not. We can make exception for you. There will be a note made to your entry link in the OP, however.

[Jacke]

Been away from KSP for the last several months.  Just coming back and checking out what I was involved with.

For Caveman Challenge, I could finish my 1.6.1 game.  Or in 1.7.3, or restart in 1.7.3, as I'm not that far along.

Anyone been active recently?

[Mr. Peabody]

On 7/25/2019 at 7:15 PM, Jacke said:

Been away from KSP for the last several months.  Just coming back and checking out what I was involved with.

For Caveman Challenge, I could finish my 1.6.1 game.  Or in 1.7.3, or restart in 1.7.3, as I'm not that far along.

Anyone been active recently?

No one has been very active of late.

Feel free to complete the challenge in any recent version, but bear in mind that the rules for DLCs also apply to breaking ground.

[Jacke]

12 minutes ago, The Dunatian said:

No one has been very active of late.

Feel free to complete the challenge in any recent version, but bear in mind that the rules for DLCs also apply to breaking ground.

Thanks!  I download KSP without the DLCs just for situations like that.

[Reinhart Mk.1]

On 11/4/2017 at 9:20 AM, The Dunatian said:

landed on Bop

HOW DO YOU LAND ON BOP WITH NONE OF THIS STUFF, hats off man jeez

[Mr. Peabody]

11 minutes ago, Reinhart Mk.1 said:

HOW DO YOU LAND ON BOP WITH NONE OF THIS STUFF, hats off man jeez

It is incredible is it not? I have never attempted anything of that scale so far, save a manned Minmus land and return with caveman tech.

The easier levels (easy-moderate) can rapidly be completed without leaving kerbal's SOI. The harder levels are almost impossible and may require several flights beyond kerbal's SOI. I strongly recommend starting with an easier difficulty level to learn how everything works.

[Reinhart Mk.1]

31 minutes ago, The Dunatian said:

It is incredible is it not?

truly legendary

[Muetdhiver]

I really love interplanetary cavemens. TBH, what Jacke did with the ladder ride to Gilly is seriously badass. Much rep for the NCD run.

The Jool system in caveman is brutal. Entering the SOI of Tylo or Laythe can easily spell disaster. So, yeah, bop is quite incredible.

Impossible without a good'ol spreadsheets  (at least for me).

Open question : has anyone given serious thoughts about grav assists in caveman ? (I did try a K-K-J sling in a sandbox, but it proved... difficult to say the least)

My point is that 1) it would kick ass and 2) it would open up new possibilities like a laythe (or god forbids) tylo / moho landings without stupid amounts of kraken inducing orbital assembly. The big issue is that getting the orbital elements (inclination and the ascending node in particular) is... problematic in a caveman challenge.

[Jacke]

5 hours ago, Muetdhiver said:

I really love interplanetary cavemens. TBH, what Jacke did with the ladder ride to Gilly is seriously badass. Much rep for the NCD run.

That wasn't me.  I've not gotten to Mun or Minmus yet.  Still wondering how I can get accurate enough to go interplanetary.

[IncongruousGoat]

10 hours ago, Muetdhiver said:

I really love interplanetary cavemens. TBH, what Jacke did with the ladder ride to Gilly is seriously badass. Much rep for the NCD run.

The Jool system in caveman is brutal. Entering the SOI of Tylo or Laythe can easily spell disaster. So, yeah, bop is quite incredible.

Impossible without a good'ol spreadsheets  (at least for me).

Open question : has anyone given serious thoughts about grav assists in caveman ? (I did try a K-K-J sling in a sandbox, but it proved... difficult to say the least)

My point is that 1) it would kick ass and 2) it would open up new possibilities like a laythe (or god forbids) tylo / moho landings without stupid amounts of kraken inducing orbital assembly. The big issue is that getting the orbital elements (inclination and the ascending node in particular) is... problematic in a caveman challenge.

I've been giving the problem of a caveman Jool-5 some thought over the last month or so, and it seems to me there's a way around the Tylo mass problem if you're willing to bend the rules a little. If you turn off commnet (which is allowed under the rules of a Jool-5), you can build a probe-controlled Tylo lander that your kerbal rides by clinging onto a ladder mounted on top. With the command pod eliminated from the equation, you can get the lander mass down into the range of a couple of tons even with caveman parts, which is well within what can be sent up in a single launch. Laythe, unfortunately, is trickier since the ladder trick won't work because of aerodynamics. You might be able to get somewhere if you can cram a kerbal into a Mk.1 Service Bay, but re-mounting the lander once on Laythe would prove difficult.

[Muetdhiver]

Damn. That must be zanie !

Very much badass league and apologies for the mix up. :/

For jool5 : tylo would indeed be okay with probe core. Laythe might be too

But that would be really stretching the rules. If only we had better antennas at low level. 

Think about it : with the new DLC there are hinges at lvl5. So one could make a kind of claw/cage with them.

Also, if one gets to jool with grav assist the ejection DV goes down from 2500 to 1200 (For K-E-K-K-J). That's about 3×Isp in saving, I.e. not negligible.

 

[Mr. Peabody]

[Thread edit]

Added images of settings menu to hard+ levels for clarification.

Compressed "Order of the Trilobite" award winners into image to save space.

Edited July 31, 2019 by The Dunatian

[dvader]

On 7/31/2019 at 2:58 AM, IncongruousGoat said:

I've been giving the problem of a caveman Jool-5

Yes! That would be a worthy challenge! Unfortunately, Real Life is still keeping me busy so I might just pass. I'm also not sure if I want to do the whole Bob-on-a-ladder thing again for so many landings. Sending Bob to Bop was tedious enough and this would require a lot more catch-and-release maneuvers. With Bob on a ladder, you really want to minimize the number of catch-and-releases. Still, it is a great idea and it would be a good reason to get back in the game.

The comnet thing is a bit tricky. Easy difficulty has comnet disabled so it would be within the easy-caveman rules but not Jool-5. Alternatively, you could claim to do a a retro-caveman and use a KSP version <1.2 but I don't really see the difference to just turning comnet off and going rogue.

As for Laythe, what about sending Bob down behind a radiator and then using that new and fancy parachute to land? You could then send a mini plane to pick him up. I haven't tried taking off on a ladder from Laythe but it shouldn't be worse than Kerbin. Here's a POC badminton ball made of radiators with a ladder behind. It does get hot but not extremely hot before the speed drops.

[ManEatingApe]

On 7/31/2019 at 1:58 AM, IncongruousGoat said:

I've been giving the problem of a caveman Jool-5 some thought...

 

3 hours ago, dvader said:

Yes! That would be a worthy challenge!

Fellow cave dwellers, what do we think of the idea of a community caveman Jool-5?

My proposal is that each participant would design a craft for a specific moon, loft it into orbit then rendezvous with a mother ship for orbital assembly.

For example (just spitballing) we could break down the effort into:

• Laythe Lander
• Tylo Lander
• Val Lander
• Bop & Pol Lander
• Return vehicle
• Jool transfer vehicle

Then participants would take turns flying their respective sections of the mission.
There would be much lawn and orbital assembly!
 

Edited August 2, 2019 by ManEatingApe

[IncongruousGoat]

8 hours ago, dvader said:

The comnet thing is a bit tricky. Easy difficulty has comnet disabled so it would be within the easy-caveman rules but not Jool-5.

Actually, we're in the clear here. As per the Jool 5 rules: " Use Normal difficulty or harder, except, any ComNet settings are allowed including turning it off completely. ". As per past judgements on the Caveman Challenge, custom difficulty saves get stuck into the highest category whose difficulty settings are the same or easier across the board as the custom save, so we would get categorized as an "Easy" caveman. But I don't really care - I was planning on using a manufactured save with a pile of starting funds and science anyways. The real challenge here is the Jool 5 itself, not setting up the save.

I like the radiator cup you have there, but I have to wonder about the mini plane idea. Laythe is a tricky beast, and building a light SSTO with caveman tech is hard. Every time I've done a Jool 5, I've had a much easier time getting lander mass down for Tylo than for Laythe.

5 hours ago, ManEatingApe said:

Fellow cave dwellers, what do we think of the idea of a community caveman Jool-5?

Hmmm. I like it, especially since it means it might actually get done (I certainly don't have enough spare time on my hands to do a caveman Jool 5 on my own now that I'm out of academia and in the Real World). If we're actually going to do that, I volunteer to put together the Tylo lander.

[ManEatingApe]

10 hours ago, IncongruousGoat said:

Hmmm. I like it, especially since it means it might actually get done (I certainly don't have enough spare time on my hands to do a caveman Jool 5 on my own now that I'm out of academia and in the Real World). If we're actually going to do that, I volunteer to put together the Tylo lander.

Great! If there's enough interest, I'll split off the mission attempt into a separate thread (to not clutter this one)

Edited August 3, 2019 by ManEatingApe