Air Superiority Fighter Competition

[NotAnAimbot]

12 minutes ago, HeroBrian_333 said:

Only 50cal. turrets are allowed, since they are not that powerful. Also,  the Volta XV Spear is a smaller plane that is mostly lifting surfaces, so there is not a lot of space for static machine guns.

Not my problem. Find some place to fit them, but even 50 cals are op just because of the turret placement.

Even small space isn't really an excuse for no fixed guns. I place a pair of them on the cockpit and they fit just fine.

Edited December 1, 2017 by NotAnAimbot

[HeroBrian_333]

Not op, they have a limited pitch. So, if they are on top, they will only handle craft level with and slightly above and away from the craft.

[NotAnAimbot]

The plane can turn to aim the guns in addition to the swivel. Fixed guns have literally no depression, so I don't see how they are better off. 

[HeroBrian_333]

1 minute ago, NotAnAimbot said:

The plane can turn to aim the guns in addition to the swivel. Fixed guns have literally no depression, so I don't see how they are better off. 

Able to fire faster, and more accurate.

[NotAnAimbot]

26 minutes ago, HeroBrian_333 said:

Able to fire faster, and more accurate.

The 50 cal turret is a twin mount, so it ends up firing at similar speeds.

And a turret is more accurate because you can finely aim it. On a wobbly craft, fixed guns would be less accurate.

[Piatzin]

My Berzerkers have four 50 cals in an orientation that lets them shoot in literally any position. Anything within 2 km gets shredded.

So yes, they are overpowered on planes.

Whether they're allowed or not is @HeroBrian_333's decision though. IMHO, turrets can be counteracted with a good missile-heavy plane. Interceptors and long-range craft can pick off my Berzerkers from a distance, so long as they don't target the missiles (turn it off in the gun options).

Depends on the settings and such.

[drtricky]

5 minutes ago, Earthlinger said:

My Berzerkers have four 50 cals in an orientation that lets them shoot in literally any position. Anything within 2 km gets shredded.

Hmm, my testing determined that although the turrets could shoot at any angle, the .50 BMG's low velocity and accuracy, in addition to the turret's comparatively low rate of fire, offset its traversing advantage compared to the vulcans. I tested this by replacing the armament on my Cool Ranch Dorito™ with four 50 cal turrets, and the only instances where the 50 cals defeated the vulcans were in head-on gunfights. 

I'm not trying to put you down, I'm just wondering why our results are so different.

[Piatzin]

1 minute ago, drtricky said:

I'm not trying to put you down, I'm just wondering why our results are so different.

Lol :D  Was it 1v1? I did 2v2's, not single matches, and did no testing with .50 BMG's

The Berzerkers are meant for swarm tactics, btw. Hence the low part count

[drtricky]

@Earthlinger Here are some more recent results from five 3v3's of turrets vs vulcans using my planes:

#1: Turret victory: Only one turret survived intact. It managed to win despite the fire setting not being set to salvo, and two turrets killed while traversing. Their DPS and accuracy was noticeably low as a result, however. 

#2: Draw: All planes destroyed, and the only survivor was a vulcan cockpit.

#3: Draw: All planes destroyed, although the last vulcan succumbed to battle damage moments after killing the last turret.

#4 Turret victory: One vulcan was destroyed by a missile, causing another vulcan to be focused by two turrets.

In the end two turrets survived: One intact, another lost a wing, but would've survived crashing into the ground. One turret killed while traversing, although once again DPS and accuracy were low.

 

#5: Vulcan victory: Vulcans managed to eliminate all three turrets without damage to themselves.

I'd still conclude that turrets and vulcans are on par with each other, even though turrets won more out of 5. The turrets can traverse, but the only instances they killed while traversing were when they were firing on a plane distracted by another teammate, or at ranges less than 1 km 800 meters. And even then, kills are inconsistent.

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by drtricky

[Piatzin]

5 minutes ago, drtricky said:

I'd still conclude that turrets and vulcans are on par with each other, even though turrets won more out of 5. The turrets can traverse, but the only instances where they killed while traversing were when they were firing on a plane distracted by another teammate, or at ranges less than 1 km.

That seems about right, I suppose

Yeah turrets are short range. 2500 on the 50 cals, and 2000 on some of the others, right? (I think).

Now, lasers would be OP.....

*evil grin*

*sees the post that bans them*

*mourns*

[drtricky]

@Earthlinger Both the turrets and vulcans have hardcapped max firing ranges of 2.5 km.

[HeroBrian_333]

Thank you @drtricky for doing that reasearch. The 50cal. stays.

[drtricky]

Another thing I found while... "analyzing"... other people's planes was that the GAU-8 is way less accurate and powerful than the vulcan. I was testing a plane from here which had several vulcans, versus my plane with a single GAU-8. In a gunfight, the vulcans won the vast majority of the time after 10+ rounds, and this plane had worse close-quarters maneuverability than mine. In several turning fights, my GAU-8 was able to begin firing on the vulcan's tail because of its faster turn speed, and often fired for several seconds straight. Yet the whole time, the GAU-8 couldn't hit, and the enemy would turn around right in front of them, fire back, and win. In head-on bull rushes, even two GAU-8's lost the majority of the time, and while the GAU-8 struggled to hit beyond 500 meters, the vulcans killed as far as 1.5 km away.

Then I fitted several vulcans on my plane, and the odds immediately reversed. Has anyone else noticed the GAU-8 being way weaker than the vulcans?

 

[NotAnAimbot]

1 hour ago, drtricky said:

Then I fitted several vulcans on my plane,

Maybe that's the problem, number of guns. Always test with the same conditions.

As for the GAU-8, idk, I just don't use it.

[Guest]

do we have anyone who will do the dogfights?

[HeroBrian_333]

18 minutes ago, dundun93 said:

do we have anyone who will do the dogfights?

I do some when I have time, but anyone else who would be willing to help, please PM me.

[Guest]

does anyone know of any other dogfight threads that do one or two dogfights daily?

Edited December 2, 2017 by Guest

[HeroBrian_333]

No one really has that kind of time.

[exbyde]

2 hours ago, NotAnAimbot said:

Maybe that's the problem, number of guns. Always test with the same conditions.

As for the GAU-8, idk, I just don't use it.

Gau-8 weighs 5.5 times what a single vulcan does, and ammo weighs roughly 3x as much for 50 less rounds. I doubt a lot of fighters remain viable with more than one Avenger with weight/drag/recoil penalties.

 

I decided to do some testing with my Vectorhawk fighter, and made two variants, one with twin vulcans and 2700rds ammo, the other with a single Avenger and 1600rds of ammo. My observations were:

The Avenger-equipped fighters weighed 600kg more, despite having less ammo and RPM. 
Avenger-equipped fighters started shooting at 4km as opposed to 2.5km.
The stream of bullets seemed more precise with the Avenger, lacking the spread the vulcans had for error correction

Fights:
1v1, 8km :
Vulcan-Was a mirror match, each aircraft making passes. Vulcan could get a bead on the Avenger 1/8 of a second early.
Vulcan-see first.
Avenger- cannon kill at >2km on initial interception

2v2, 8km
Avenger, 2-0: One downed at distance, the other downed at close range. Noted one Vulcan had been hit at least once, sustained minimal damage, continued fighting before being shot down.
Vulcan, 0-2: One Avenger ducked away before firing initial burst, both aircraft shot down at close range from tail
Vulcan, 0-2: One Avenger had an engine shot out early on. Wingman was downed, first aircraft shot down while engaging another Vulcan from tail.

And while we're doing gun comparisons, i did another comparison with the twin .50 turrets against Vulcans. In this case, it was 2 guns above, 2 below wing, 600rds/gun. Weights were identical.

2v2, 8km
Turret, 2-0: Both opposing aircraft destroyed on initial pass.
Turret, 2-1: One turret carrier destroyed on initial pass, one vulcan lost 1/2 of left wing. Second turret killed both vulcans. Noticed a lack of head-to-head, vulcans seemed to be maneuvering to evade turrets
Turret, 2-1: One turret carrier and one vulcan destroyed in initial pass, second vulcan destroyed while firing on turret.

Conclusions:
Avenger very heavy, precise
Vulcans are lighter, more rounds per minute, slightly less accurate
.50 turrets very effective but not perfect

Edited December 2, 2017 by exbyde

[Dimas152]

bcuz no one gives a s**t on my craft, so i reposted this
 

On 11/29/2017 at 4:30 PM, [INDO]dimas_1502 said:

i have plenty of fighters to submit
but i have completed one fighter
IAIO Qaher F-313

not sure if 4 AIM-9s can beat other fighters but i still have more planees to work
craft sauce : https://kerbalx.com/dimas_1502/Qaher-F-313

 

[HeroBrian_333]

@[INDO]dimas_1502 I do care, but my schoolwork tales precedence over this thread. And I have had a lot of homework recently. It looks nice though. I like stealth fighters a lot.

[exbyde]

2 hours ago, [INDO]dimas_1502 said:

bcuz no one gives a s**t on my craft, so i reposted this
 

 

There are a lot of fighters here waiting to be tested, its not a matter of  no one giving a s**t. don't be a youtube buddy.

[exbyde]

So, after my testing last night, i've recalled my previous fighter design, and replaced it with the Berkut 1AT, a lightweight, single-seat turreted design

Its quite survivable

[Piatzin]

Ignore all of my previous submissions, except for the one with the Berzerkers.

New plane here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v516oo8s59a2gq1/Ordnance Drone - Fighter.craft?dl=0

Removed the GAU-8 cannons and the hefty ammo they use, and replaced them with the lighter 20 mm Vulcans. Better radar and maneuverability. Same part count of 42

[exbyde]

@Earthlinger i keep seeing people advertise "better radar", what do you mean by that? Also all Aim-120s is a bold move

Edited December 2, 2017 by exbyde