[1.3.1] Aviation Lights v3.14 [use MOARdV's version instead!]

[Deadweasel]

I have been meaning to try something but have not found the time. I noticed the following code:

//Energy requirements check: if the light is not off and requires resources; request resource. If returned resource is less than requested; turn off
if (navLightSwitch > 0 && EnergyReq > 0 && part.RequestResource(Resource, EnergyReq * TimeWarp.deltaTime) == 0)
   navLightSwitch = (int)navLightStates.navLightState.Off;

and I was wondering if the game is returning 0 for the TimeWarp.deltaTime when the game is paused. Maybe that is what is causing the pause bug?

I also love these lights . Thank you.

Ohh... MAN. I wonder about that, now. Is it possible the lights are running their routine, even if the game is paused? I've been digging around for source code from other lights for comparison, but I can't find anything relevant in the B9 Aerospace pack.

[BigNose]

I don't think it's because of the energy requirements check, the bug existed already before it was implemented.

[Lacerta]

Woohoo! Now Jeb can travel in space in his brand new Interplanetary Disco Ball!

[Camacha]

I am working on a drone that does not have a discernible front or back. Does anyone know what the conventions are colour wise in those cases?

Edited November 23, 2013 by Camacha

[BigNose]

I am working on a drone that does not have a discernible front or back. Does anyone know what the conventions are colour wise it those cases?

Hmm, I don't know of any. But maybe that's because something like this never existed in real life? Am I wrong?

[Camacha]

Hmm, I don't know of any. But maybe that's because something like this never existed in real life? Am I wrong?

The only thing that comes to mind are multicopters, but those are usually not big enough to warrant navigation lights. I think I should stick to white strobes, as navigation lights that indicate the wrong direction are worse than no navigation lights at all.

[Camacha]

Is it intentional that the red and white lights flash at different speeds in flash mode?

[BigNose]

Is it intentional that the red and white lights flash at different speeds in flash mode?

Yep, Strobes and Beacons are intentionally out of sync.

[Deadweasel]

The only thing that comes to mind are multicopters, but those are usually not big enough to warrant navigation lights. I think I should stick to white strobes, as navigation lights that indicate the wrong direction are worse than no navigation lights at all.

This is the official lighting convention for aircraft:

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/electronics/lights/md11-lighting.jpg

Newer aircraft expand on this a bit with the top and bottom beacons as well.

Current convention is (facing forward aboard the aircraft)

Left: red

Right: green

Top: white beacon

Bottom: red beacon

[rdfox]

Each vehicle will have a "front" and a "rear" end, if only for reference purposes for the control system. (i.e., push the cyclic forward, and it pitches towards the reference front.) Use the standard aviation nav lighting convention, if only to save yourself confusion when flying it in KSP. (Also note that the standard has white wingtip strobes just forward of the red/green wingtip navlights, which provides further directional verification.) Just treat the "front" in the SPH as being the "forward" direction and work from there.

[Camacha]

Each vehicle will have a "front" and a "rear" end, if only for reference purposes for the control system. (i.e., push the cyclic forward, and it pitches towards the reference front.) Use the standard aviation nav lighting convention, if only to save yourself confusion when flying it in KSP. (Also note that the standard has white wingtip strobes just forward of the red/green wingtip navlights, which provides further directional verification.) Just treat the "front" in the SPH as being the "forward" direction and work from there.

Well, I could see a problem with directional lights that point the wrong way. If your lights indicate that you are moving away while you are actually moving towards another vehicle, that could lead to serious dangers. Sending out confusing signals seems worse than sending no signals at all. And of course, no signals does not mean any lights, it just means no directional signals.

For KSP just using the convention might be useful though, as steering the things can get confusing at times. I will have to think about it.

[Deadweasel]

Here's an example of the layout I generally prefer when designing my planes/ships.

(Also, I just had to share this one with y'all. These lights still make flying tons of fun!)

This is AACT-103A, similar to the 104 but with (very wonky) engines

Edited November 26, 2013 by Deadweasel

[rdfox]

Well, I could see a problem with directional lights that point the wrong way. If your lights indicate that you are moving away while you are actually moving towards another vehicle, that could lead to serious dangers. Sending out confusing signals seems worse than sending no signals at all. And of course, no signals does not mean any lights, it just means no directional signals.

For KSP just using the convention might be useful though, as steering the things can get confusing at times. I will have to think about it.

Helicopters can fly in any direction IRL, and use the same lighting conventions as fixed-wing aircraft. The lights are really less to determine direction of motion than they are to determine orientation--the direction of motion is determined by the motion of the lights against the sky.

[Camacha]

Helicopters can fly in any direction IRL, and use the same lighting conventions as fixed-wing aircraft.

Yes, but the major caveat is that helicopters will fly like normal aircraft the majority of the time. The remaining time might be spent hovering - that means being stationairy and barely moving side to side.

Helicopters flying at speed in another direction than the nose is pointing are as rare as winning the lottery. Therefore, any confusion stemming from wrong information about the direction of travel is highly unlikely to cause any problem. This is different in a craft that flies as fast backwards as it does forwards and does that frequently. For that reason I think it is better not to provide directional information at all in cases where it could be plain wrong.

Another option might be to dynamically adjust the lighting scheme of the craft to the current heading, but I am not sure that such a high tech solution is desirable.

[Deadweasel]

Helos are designed to fly in one direction. They can hover in other directions, but it's the orientation of the craft that the lights indicate, not which way it's headed (which are most frequently the same thing anyway).

Besides, the lights are there to notify other aircraft of their presence. Another pilot won't care one bit about the other aircraft's actual heading. What he wants to know is that aircraft's orientation (and therefore most like direction of flight) -relative to him- at a glance if possible.

Quadcopters, however, may end up warranting a different scenario for lighting conventions, should they ever become officially recognized by the FAA and other air regulatory agencies around the world. Then again, maybe not. I can't imagine somebody would feel the idea requires enough sophistication as to include a cockpit that swivels to accomodate whatever direction the craft happens to be moving in.

EDIT:

Aaaaand just as I posted the foregoing text, I find this:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57613608-1/18-rotor-electric-helicopter-makes-maiden-flight/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title

Why, oh why? This will not end well.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Deadweasel

[Camacha]

For a short moment I thought the thing was called Yolocopter. I must say that would have completed the concept beautifully.

[Andersenman]

One thing that keeps bugging me with the lights, or KSP's lighting system in general, is that the effect lives and dies with pixel size. Even when there's a massive flash on an object: once the object is far enough away it becomes just a single pixel flashing at "only" 100 % screen brightness, and not even that once it starts to drown in Anti-Aliasing before finally getting swallowed by view distance. I do realise that this is just the way the engine works, so I'd simply be interested in you guys' thoughts about this problem - if I may use this thread for that.

Thanks!

[Taki117]

For a short moment I thought the thing was called Yolocopter. I must say that would have completed the concept beautifully.

I think it should be called the ROFL-copter.

[BigNose]

One thing that keeps bugging me with the lights, or KSP's lighting system in general, is that the effect lives and dies with pixel size. Even when there's a massive flash on an object: once the object is far enough away it becomes just a single pixel flashing at "only" 100 % screen brightness, and not even that once it starts to drown in Anti-Aliasing before finally getting swallowed by view distance. I do realise that this is just the way the engine works, so I'd simply be interested in you guys' thoughts about this problem - if I may use this thread for that.

Thanks!

I don't think there is an easy way to make the lights work out of rendering distance, at least none of which I know of. One would have to replace the light with a coloured disk or something to be able to see it further out.

[Andersenman]

One would have to replace the light with a coloured disk

Perhaps not outright replacing, but yes. Something like a halo billboard that always renders on top, scaled in size and alpha depending on flash brightness and ideally view distance even, and only invoked when the camera has line-of-sight to the light source ... or illuminated objects, like adjacent fuselage. A billboard sprite ... or some shader-based overbrightening ... something like that.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Andersenman

[Carcharhinidae]

I just tested it, and this mod seems to work in .23 without any modifications whatsoever!

[Rayder]

Each vehicle will have a "front" and a "rear" end, if only for reference purposes for the control system. (i.e., push the cyclic forward, and it pitches towards the reference front.) Use the standard aviation nav lighting convention, if only to save yourself confusion when flying it in KSP. (Also note that the standard has white wingtip strobes just forward of the red/green wingtip navlights, which provides further directional verification.) Just treat the "front" in the SPH as being the "forward" direction and work from there.

1) Navigation Lights

2) Aft Light

3) Anti-Collision Strobe lights

4)Logo Light

Straight from the wiki.

[Camacha]

The colours of something like the anti-collision light seem the differ sometimes, though. I have seen those red too.

[DerekL1963]

Straight from the wiki.

Off topic nit: a wiki. Wiki is a type of software, the one behind Wikipedia and metric ton of other sites.

[rdfox]

The colours of something like the anti-collision light seem the differ sometimes, though. I have seen those red too.

Actually, the red ones you've seen are beacon lights, not anticollision lights. There's usually one on the tip of the vertical tail or the top of the fuselage (next to the top anticollision strobe) and another on the center of the belly. They predate the adoption of strobes, and they emulate the old "rotating beacon" technology you might be old enough to remember on emergency vehicles, with a continuously-lit lamp and a rotating reflector that sweeps the reflected beam of light around a circle. (The old ones really DID use that technology; the new ones are flashers, but emulate the slow flash rate they had.) They're not really considered that important in flight these days, though they're generally left on; however, they're extremely useful in ground operations at night, since, unlike the strobes, they *aren't* blindingly bright. (Strobes, like the landing lights, are not turned on until you're on the runway, ready to take off, to avoid blinding ground crew and the pilots of other airplanes on the ground.)