[1.5.0 <-> 1.8.1] Kerbalism v3.2

[Gordon Dry]

@joespeed1952 the thread title says so ...

[Andrey.gr]

16 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

@Andrey.gr please post a link to the full log.

it's somehow interfering with ModuleManager.3.1.0. Just clean set up w/o ModuleManager, everything is ok, after I'm adding MM, log starts to fill with this message.

"[EXC 17:05:18.640] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    KERBALISM.ProcessController.Update ()"

Edited October 28, 2018 by Andrey.gr

[aluc24]

Hey, @N70, I am encountering an old bug in Kerbalism (had it before as well). I have a space station in low Kerbin orbit with solar panels, lots of batteries, and various processes going on (greenhouse, etc.). The batteries are never drained more than half their capacity when the station is in Kerbin's/Mun's shadow. When the vessel is active, or when I time-warp in KSC slowly, everything is good. But if I set the warp to maximum from KSC, my kerbals die in the station due to lack of electricity. It appears that during high time warp (default KSP, no time warp mods), Kerbalism doesn't calculate electricity consumption/production properly, and the kerbals die before even getting a warning message through.

Is this a known issue? How can I solve it? If you need logs or anything, let me know, I'm just not sure what would be relevant here.

[theJesuit]

35 minutes ago, aluc24 said:

Hey, @N70, I am encountering an old bug in Kerbalism (had it before as well). I have a space station in low Kerbin orbit with solar panels, lots of batteries, and various processes going on (greenhouse, etc.). The batteries are never drained more than half their capacity when the station is in Kerbin's/Mun's shadow. When the vessel is active, or when I time-warp in KSC slowly, everything is good. But if I set the warp to maximum from KSC, my kerbals die in the station due to lack of electricity. It appears that during high time warp (default KSP, no time warp mods), Kerbalism doesn't calculate electricity consumption/production properly, and the kerbals die before even getting a warning message through.

Is this a known issue? How can I solve it? If you need logs or anything, let me know, I'm just not sure what would be relevant here.

What version of KSP and Kerbalism are you using?

Peace.

[aluc24]

5 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

What version of KSP and Kerbalism are you using?

Peace.

KSP 1.4.5.2243

Kerbalism 1.8.0 (I know it's not the latest, but the changelog doesn't mention this problem in the latest release)

 

EDIT: damn my eyes. I just saw that this was fixed in 1.9... I'm so sorry!

Edited October 28, 2018 by aluc24

[theJesuit]

4 hours ago, aluc24 said:

KSP 1.4.5.2243

Kerbalism 1.8.0 (I know it's not the latest, but the changelog doesn't mention this problem in the latest release)

 

EDIT: damn my eyes. I just saw that this was fixed in 1.9... I'm so sorry!

No worries.  It was why I asked.

Peace.

[Gurki]

That's my first save with Kerbalism (2.0 with KSP 1.5.1) and I'm a confused how science work.

Kerbalism split experiments into two categories:

• Raw data (crew reports, temperature, pressure ...) directly upload-able to KSC but I can't make any research in lab
• Sample data (Goo, surface sample and material bay) that I can return back to Kerbin for direct science point or researched in lab to be then uploaded to KSC

From what I've tested (and I'm looking for confirmation):

• Only sample data can be researched in lab
• Researching a "Sample data" in lab only allow me to transfer it back to KSC through commnet like "Raw data"
• No more infinite science points by researching again and again the same experiment

Did I forget anything ?

 

If the above is true, I wonder how hard it will be to unlock end game parts with CTT ...

Thanks

[Sir Mortimer]

10 hours ago, Gurki said:

That's my first save with Kerbalism (2.0 with KSP 1.5.1) and I'm a confused how science work.

Kerbalism split experiments into two categories:

• Raw data (crew reports, temperature, pressure ...) directly upload-able to KSC but I can't make any research in lab
• Sample data (Goo, surface sample and material bay) that I can return back to Kerbin for direct science point or researched in lab to be then uploaded to KSC

From what I've tested (and I'm looking for confirmation):

• Only sample data can be researched in lab
• Researching a "Sample data" in lab only allow me to transfer it back to KSC through commnet like "Raw data"
• No more infinite science points by researching again and again the same experiment

Did I forget anything ?

 

If the above is true, I wonder how hard it will be to unlock end game parts with CTT ...

Thanks

You've got everything right, including that last question

The answer is: unlocking everything is very hard - unless you have additional mods that give you additional experiments. I've never even tried with stock experiments only.

[theJesuit]

What would be the total science required for CTT?

Also what might be the total science available in vanilla kerbalism with only stock science modules given that kerbalism gets rid of the lab exploit?

But before all that is answered... are asteroids there own biomes? If yes, then unlimited asteroids = unlimited science! Gotta catch 'em all... 

Just musings.  But am interested.

Peace.

[lordcirth]

7 hours ago, Sir Mortimer said:

You've got everything right, including that last question

The answer is: unlocking everything is very hard - unless you have additional mods that give you additional experiments. I've never even tried with stock experiments only.

I recommend Dmagic's Orbital Science.  You can also turn up science gains to 120%.

[Gurki]

ok I'll give a try to Dmagic's Orbital Science  then. Thanks !

[dymanoid]

I have lots of exceptions in the KSP.log file:

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	KERBALISM.Habitat.UpdateCrew (HostedFromToAction`2 dat)
	EventData`1[GameEvents+HostedFromToAction`2[ProtoCrewMember,Part]].Fire (HostedFromToAction`2 data)
	UnityEngine.Debug:LogException(Exception)
	EventData`1:Fire(HostedFromToAction`2)
	CrewTransfer:MoveCrewTo(Part)
	CrewTransfer:OnPartSelect(Part)
	PartSelector:LateUpdate()

Seems that this occurs when transferring kerbals from one part of a vessel to another. I also see a message "transfer aborted" in the game, but kerbals are transferred anyway.

There are same NREs but triggered from another place:

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	KERBALISM.Habitat.UpdateCrew (HostedFromToAction`2 dat)
	EventData`1[GameEvents+HostedFromToAction`2[ProtoCrewMember,Part]].Fire (HostedFromToAction`2 data)
	UnityEngine.Debug:LogException(Exception)
	EventData`1:Fire(HostedFromToAction`2)
	FlightEVA:onGoForEVA()
	FlightEVA:spawnEVA(ProtoCrewMember, Part, Transform, Boolean)
	FlightEVA:SpawnEVA(Kerbal)
	KSP.UI.Screens.Flight.KerbalPortrait:ClickEVA()
	UnityEngine.EventSystems.EventSystem:Update()

And:

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	KERBALISM.Habitat.UpdateCrew (HostedFromToAction`2 dat)
	EventData`1[GameEvents+HostedFromToAction`2[ProtoCrewMember,Part]].Fire (HostedFromToAction`2 data)
	UnityEngine.Debug:LogException(Exception)
	EventData`1:Fire(HostedFromToAction`2)
	KerbalEVA:proceedAndBoard(Part)
	KerbalEVA:BoardPart(Part)
	KerbalEVA:<SetupFSM>m__32()
	KerbalFSM:RunEvent(KFSMEvent)
	KerbalFSM:updateFSM(KFSMUpdateMode)
	KerbalFSM:UpdateFSM()
	KerbalEVA:Update()

The last one caused my kerbal to "not completely enter" a vessel, so the game then went mad: no staging UI anymore, no MechJeb UI, ComNet status panel showing multiple symbols with "No text" tool-tips etc. I had to restart the game.

Could you please check whether there's an issue in Kerbalism?

[Nathangun]

I've been mucking about with @bcink Deep Space Surface Habitat Unit Pack and using @MacLuky CFG file (in a Sandbox save), experimented with it and built a base on Ceti (GPP). I'm still playing a 1.4.3. install.

 

The Ammonia only lasted just over a year, weird Kerbalism says it is perpetual.

After 1Y  & 175 Days (and two solar storms) the crew have suffered 21% radiation, more experimentation needed.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Nathangun

[Vas]

I had a thought for your mod's settings page on the advanced tab with Living Temp.

You should (at the very least) put "k" after the temperature number to indicate Kelvin.  But I was hoping you might add conversion units in as well so instead of saying "Survival Temperature: 295" it would say "Survival Temperature: 295k (21.85C | 71.33F)" allowing those of us who don't know K off the top of our heads to get a guess at this setting's range and whatnot.  Same for the "range", with the displaying of C and F after it.  Reason I suggest both is that Americans use F, and I have to go to google to convert everything from C to F to figure out how hot something is.  All my laptop's monitoring stuff is even set to F.

[lajoswinkler]

I suggest the modder(s) to seriously consider switching the ionizing ray dose rate from rad/h to Gy/h. Rad is not an SI unit and strongly discouraged even by NIST. Gray is a world standard used for a long time, and easy to calculate with.

Given that KSP is a game which respects SI units, that rads are obsolete and archaic expression of physical quantity, and that dose equivalent sieverts are very tangible connection to gray, this would be a smart and reasonable change.

1 Gy = 1 J⋅kg⁻¹

1 Gy = 100 rad

1 rad = 0.01 Gy

[Vas]

9 hours ago, lajoswinkler said:

I suggest the modder(s) to seriously consider switching the ionizing ray dose rate from rad/h to Gy/h. Rad is not an SI unit and strongly discouraged even by NIST. Gray is a world standard used for a long time, and easy to calculate with.

Given that KSP is a game which respects SI units, that rads are obsolete and archaic expression of physical quantity, and that dose equivalent sieverts are very tangible connection to gray, this would be a smart and reasonable change.

I've heard of rad far more often than I've heard of "gray".  I've never even heard of "gray" till today.  In fact, I think even Take on Mars uses Rad or Sv.  Actually it uses Sv now that I think about it, but anyway.

[lajoswinkler]

16 hours ago, Vas said:

I've heard of rad far more often than I've heard of "gray".  I've never even heard of "gray" till today.  In fact, I think even Take on Mars uses Rad or Sv.  Actually it uses Sv now that I think about it, but anyway.

Sievert is equivalent dose and is directly related to gray. Gray is generalized, sievert is specified for human tissue and is a product of gray (specified for exact type of radiation) and special factors which depends on the tissue and circumstances.

It's expressed as:

H = D * Q * N

where H is equivalent dose in sieverts, D absorbed dose in grays, Q quality factor, N modification factor (usually 1 for simplicity).

 

We can simplify this as:

H = D * W_R

where W_R is weight factor (1 for electrons, photons, muons; 2 for protons and charged pions; 20 for alpha particles, fission fragments; variable for neutrons).

 

What gray is to rad, sievert is to obsolete rem. As you can see, sieverts are very complicated because they depend on several variables and are strictly for humans, where we play with Kerbals and autonomous probes.

Grays are simply J/kg, easy to work with and basis of everything.

Here's my old Geiger-Müller counter. Gray scale (pun intended).

Edited November 7, 2018 by lajoswinkler

[Moofrog]

On 10/24/2018 at 3:19 PM, Sir Mortimer said:

Me neihter. In fact, I've never seen those buttons. Are you sure they're added by Kerbalism?

 

On 10/24/2018 at 3:19 PM, Sir Mortimer said:

It's Kerbal Space Program that does this. Luckily there's a workaround: load a quicksave.

You were and are absolutety right, Sir Mortimer!

[Moofrog]

I have a question: Is Kerbalism compatible with TAC Life Support? I'd like to give Kerbalism another try , I am/was just too overwhelmed by its complexity/vastness.

[theJesuit]

20 minutes ago, Moofrog said:

I have a question: Is Kerbalism compatible with TAC Life Support? I'd like to give Kerbalism another try , I am/was just too overwhelmed by its complexity/vastness.

Kerbalism's life support is comparable in numbers to TAC now.  You probably could do away with TAC.  It does make it much more complex though as nitrogen is needed for cabin pressure and radiation is an issue.

[Moofrog]

20 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

Kerbalism's life support is comparable in numbers to TAC now.  You probably could do away with TAC.  It does make it much more complex though as nitrogen is needed for cabin pressure and radiation is an issue.

Thank you. Much obliged. I'll consider it.

[The-Doctor]

@N70 quick question, so I browsed the first page but didn't find anything, but is kerbalism supporting planetary base systems and/or stockalike station parts expansion?

 

On a side note, Shotgun mentioned to me long ago when he was back he wanted to make radiation something with a source I think? The idea was that you could use a robotic arm an a thick piece of radiation shielding to shield crew on eva like an umbrella, from radiation, he also planned a feature called hardware, which would be used to make for example a refinery for oxygen be able to be changed to refine ammonia rather than having to launch a whole new part or build a new part.

 

Im hoping that something is done about radiation and insanity cause right now kerbalism makes creating permanent outposts impossible, and makes kerbals die from insanity. My other question is does deep freeze now reset the radiation increase as well as insanity or does it no longer do that? My hope is that it does, that way I could use deep freeze modules as a fill in as a sort of medical bay to heal colonists, allowing the creation of truly massive colonies one day. I really like kerbalism and would hate to have to remove it to can do any long term base building.

[lordcirth]

31 minutes ago, The-Doctor said:

@N70 quick question, so I browsed the first page but didn't find anything, but is kerbalism supporting planetary base systems and/or stockalike station parts expansion?

 

On a side note, Shotgun mentioned to me long ago when he was back he wanted to make radiation something with a source I think? The idea was that you could use a robotic arm an a thick piece of radiation shielding to shield crew on eva like an umbrella, from radiation, he also planned a feature called hardware, which would be used to make for example a refinery for oxygen be able to be changed to refine ammonia rather than having to launch a whole new part or build a new part.

 

Im hoping that something is done about radiation and insanity cause right now kerbalism makes creating permanent outposts impossible, and makes kerbals die from insanity. My other question is does deep freeze now reset the radiation increase as well as insanity or does it no longer do that? My hope is that it does, that way I could use deep freeze modules as a fill in as a sort of medical bay to heal colonists, allowing the creation of truly massive colonies one day. I really like kerbalism and would hate to have to remove it to can do any long term base building.

Shotgun did intend to do that, but I don't believe it's high on the new maintainers' priorities.  Also I believe someone is currently working on a medbay to reverse radiation in flight.

[theJesuit]

3 hours ago, The-Doctor said:

My other question is does deep freeze now reset the radiation increase as well as insanity or does it no longer do that?

The deep Freeze exploit no longer works and there is a medbay module and tv module to get in a hitchhiker via high tech tree part upgrades to off set radiation and stress.

It may be in a beta update via github if not in the current changelog.  Check in discord.

Peace.

[Jodo42]

Does Kerbalism remove biome-specific EVA reports from LKO? I'm just getting "EVA Report from Space Near Kerbin" instead of "EVA Report from Space Just Above [biome]." It also seems like many EVA reports like high and low atmo are just completely gone.

 

Do forgive me if this is now vanilla behavior; it's been over a year since I've played KSP.

 

Another quick question: why aren't my kerbals dying once electric charge runs out? How much time do I have in general? Thanks for everything folks.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Jodo42