[1.8.1-1.12.x] Modular Launch Pads v2.6.1: Launch clamps evolved: Real-style launch bases and towers [03 July 2023]

[Soviet_Velir]

Привет! Может ли кто-нибудь отправить файлы для кораблей «Союз» (ракета и корабль вместе, Tantares), SLS с экипажем (ReDirect) и Starship (TundraEx) with their launch pads в версии игры 1.11.0?

Edited September 27, 2021 by Soviet_Velir

[GuessingEveryDay]

3 minutes ago, Soviet_Velir said:

Привет! Может ли кто-нибудь отправить файлы для кораблей «Союз» (ракета и корабль вместе, Tantares), SLS с экипажем (ReDirect) и Starship (TundraEx) with their launch pads в версии игры 1.11.0?

Translation: Hey! Can anyone send files for the ships Soyuz (rocket and ship together, Tantares), SLS with crew (ReDirect) and Starship (TundraEx) with their launch pads in game version 1.11.0?

I believe Tantares has their craft files in a separate folder, while ReDirect and Tundra both provide theirs in the "Extras" folder.

[Soviet_Velir]

4 minutes ago, GuessingEveryDay said:

Перевод: Эй! Может ли кто-нибудь отправить файлы для кораблей Союз (ракета и корабль вместе, Tantares), SLS с экипажем (ReDirect) и Starship (TundraEx) с их стартовыми площадками в версии игры 1.11.0?

Я считаю, что Tantares хранит свои крафтовые файлы в отдельной папке, а ReDirect и Tundra предоставляют свои файлы в папке «Extras».

In Tantares, yes, there is craft with the Soyuz, but it lacks separators on accelerators, and it also turns. I would like a revised version And what about Extras, I'll see, thanks

8 minutes ago, GuessingEveryDay said:

Translation: Hey! Can anyone send files for the ships Soyuz (rocket and ship together, Tantares), SLS with crew (ReDirect) and Starship (TundraEx) with their launch pads in game version 1.11.0?

I believe Tantares has their craft files in a separate folder, while ReDirect and Tundra both provide theirs in the "Extras" folder.

Oh, and I just realized that I forgot to translate all this ... I apologize and thank you very much for translated for others!

[AlphaMensae]

11 hours ago, TruthfulGnome said:

The Saturn tower is not correctly scaled to the new Saturn parts and the umbilicals don't fit properly so i wouldn't say properly 

 

3 hours ago, Jcking said:

You sure about that? (granted the crew access arm for Saturn IB is not in a place that would be traversable by the crew, but I think it was like that for the old parts as well).

The Saturn tower was originally sized for a 64% scale Saturn V and Saturn IB (my own, actually), which means a 6.4m diameter S-IC and S-II, 4.25m S-IVB and the default 2.5m Apollo CSM (which I used as the baseline).

The old BDB Saturn V is undersized, except for the Apollo CSM which is still 2.5m. The S-IC and S-II stages are very undersized at 5.625m, and the 3.75m S-IV is also undersized. This is why the old BDB Saturn IB on the milkstool did not line up with the tower arms, as the Saturn V was too short. My own Saturn IB fit perfectly as with the IRL one.

The new BDB Saturn V, while much better, is still undersized compared to the CSM, with a 6.25m S-IC and S-II (needs to be 6.4m to match the CSM).  Cobalt unfortunately still likes his 0.625m multiples.

Whenever I find the desire (which may be never as I'm burned out) to remake the MLP Saturn tower and launcher base, they will still be sized for a full 64% scale Saturn V and Saturn IB.  Use the DECQ Saturn V for a proper fit.

Edited September 27, 2021 by AlphaMensae

[stlouis27]

Hi Alpha,

I'm using SOCK and reDirect with your shuttle launchpads and I've seem to encounter a problem. I attached the ET with the launchpad and move the height of the launchpad up to get it probably configured, but somehow when I move it up, it moves it to where the SRB hold downs are below the launchpad. Even if i move it forward, it does the same thing, making it really difficult to move it to the correct height.

Am I doing anything wrong or is this a bug?

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ygnze2dved8staw/AACOsem7w_hZ7-RqRRT6f_Wta?dl=0

Edited September 29, 2021 by stlouis27

[UnanimousCoward]

I think the CryoTanks patch might be out of date.

Something in my install (log file seems to indicate CryoTanks) was removing the LiquidFuel, Oxidizer and LqdHydrogen resources from the Static Test Stand - Engine Type and adding two B9PartSwitch fuel tanks to it, even though the CryoTanks patch in the mod is supposed to prevent this.

This MM patch will restore proper functionality and remove the erroneous tanks until such time as the mod is updated:

Spoiler

@PART[AM_MLP_TestStandEngine]:NEEDS[ModularLaunchPads]:FINAL
{
	-MODULE[ModuleB9PartSwitch]:HAS[#moduleID[fuelSwitch]]{}
	%RESOURCE[LiquidFuel]
	{
		%name = LiquidFuel
		%amount = 200
		%maxAmount = 200
	}	
	%RESOURCE[Oxidizer]
	{
		%name = Oxidizer
		%amount = 200
		%maxAmount = 200
	}
	%RESOURCE[LqdHydrogen]:NEEDS[CommunityResourcePack]
	{
		%name = LqdHydrogen
		%amount = 200
		%maxAmount = 200
	}
}

(It's possible this is not to do with CryoTanks and it's a result of one or more of the 100s of other mods I have, but the log seems to indicate that CryoTanks was doing it.)

 

[AlphaMensae]

8 hours ago, stlouis27 said:

Hi Alpha,

I'm using SOCK and reDirect with your shuttle launchpads and I've seem to encounter a problem. I attached the ET with the launchpad and move the height of the launchpad up to get it probably configured, but somehow when I move it up, it moves it to where the SRB hold downs are below the launchpad. Even if i move it forward, it does the same thing, making it really difficult to move it to the correct height.

Am I doing anything wrong or is this a bug?

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ygnze2dved8staw/AACOsem7w_hZ7-RqRRT6f_Wta?dl=0

Hold down the left shift key when using the offset gizmo to get 20m of free movement.

[Jacktical]

Hey! Do you have any desire to make a pad specifically for Delta IV/Delta IV Heavy like the one you made for the Titan IV and III? I would really like to see it to go with the other BDB rockets  

 

[jefferyharrell]

1 minute ago, Jacktical said:

Hey! Do you have any desire to make a pad specifically for Delta IV/Delta IV Heavy

I was just thinking the other day how nice it would be to have Delta IV launchpad features. Consider this a vote in favor.

[AlphaMensae]

On 9/29/2021 at 11:10 AM, Jacktical said:

Hey! Do you have any desire to make a pad specifically for Delta IV/Delta IV Heavy like the one you made for the Titan IV and III? I would really like to see it to go with the other BDB rockets  

I have thought about it, but don't know when I'll get to it.  Doesn't seem too complex, maybe in the next month or two.

[AlphaMensae]

I just posted v2.2.1 on Spacedock and the GitHub.

It has @UnanimousCoward's updated CryoTanks patch, and I removed the ring that Modular Launch Pads added to the Bluedog Design Bureau Sarnus/Saturn 1 Engine Mount to make it the Saturn IB version, which was fully circular without the cutouts and recessed sections (the ring only covered the bottom of the recesses to provide a place to attach the hold-downs). The new BDB Saturn I engine mount now has a Saturn IB variant, making the MLP-added ring unnecessary.

The lines that added the ring have only been commented out in the BluedogDB_MLP_Patches.cfg located in ModularLaunchPads/Compatibility_Patches folder for now, so if desired the '//' in front of the MODEL{} node lines can be deleted to restore the ring. Once the new BDB Saturn parts are officially released, those lines (and the .mu for the ring) will be deleted.
 

[Yaroslav Russia]

Is it planned to add a launch pad for the PH of the hangar of all modifications to the mod, that is, a universal launch pad for the Ph?

Edited October 2, 2021 by Yaroslav Russia

[Araym]

Great mod as ever... but... well... the latest release is giving me a bit of a problem:

I'm used to build thic rockets, but my previous interation (I think using MLP 2.2.0) was perfectly fine with my 8x F1 Saturn C.8....
... but with the latest this is happening:

Launchbase burnt alive!

[AlphaMensae]

1 hour ago, Araym said:

Great mod as ever... but... well... the latest release is giving me a bit of a problem:

I'm used to build thic rockets, but my previous interation (I think using MLP 2.2.0) was perfectly fine with my 8x F1 Saturn C.8....
... but with the latest this is happening:
 

Launchbase burnt alive!

The old BDB Saturn V was very undersized, and the Saturn launch base was not designed for a 64% scale C-8 unless rescaled larger.

[Araym]

24 minutes ago, AlphaMensae said:

The old BDB Saturn V was very undersized, and the Saturn launch base was not designed for a 64% scale C-8 unless rescaled larger.

Yeah... I have to keep the rocket leveled to the top of the launch base, end not "fit inside" the hole as it should be a Saturn V.
The weirdness (unless the latest dev. branches from BDB have changed heavily some F1 engine stats, so that now is generating more heat) is that the very, same first stage (aside some cosmetic new part added, with me starting again to use Procedural Fairings) is that I used basically the same first stage of a previousversion built with the actual BDB release (not dev) and it never blew...

I love to build "unconventional rocket derivation", and using parts not totally the way they are meant, so I slightly adjusted the maxtemp, knowing that my "engineering ideas" could "overstress" parts not meant to be used as I do. It was just unexpected.

(Side idea: even if meant to be a "Saturn V launch tower", maybe the base could be made, in future, with some switches to give it a larger base hole, for a bit of more "kerbal engineering" of rockets not properly in the Saturn V scale dimension: more kerbal awesomeness could be used, if there could be a switcher for a flame hole a bigger, as not-default option: My Saturn C-8 is roughly 8-8.5 m with the engine skirt, with the base first stage made with a random 7.5m tank I have from an old mod... ti's "bigger" but still "Saturn-alike" enough that could have been plced in the same tower-style... even if the one I'm using is definitely "taller")

Beside:

On 9/27/2021 at 7:03 PM, AlphaMensae said:

The Saturn tower was originally sized for a 64% scale Saturn V and Saturn IB (my own, actually), which means a 6.4m diameter S-IC and S-II, 4.25m S-IVB and the default 2.5m Apollo CSM (which I used as the baseline).

The old BDB Saturn V is undersized, except for the Apollo CSM which is still 2.5m. The S-IC and S-II stages are very undersized at 5.625m, and the 3.75m S-IV is also undersized. This is why the old BDB Saturn IB on the milkstool did not line up with the tower arms, as the Saturn V was too short. My own Saturn IB fit perfectly as with the IRL one.

The new BDB Saturn V, while much better, is still undersized compared to the CSM, with a 6.25m S-IC and S-II (needs to be 6.4m to match the CSM).  Cobalt unfortunately still likes his 0.625m multiples.

Whenever I find the desire (which may be never as I'm burned out) to remake the MLP Saturn tower and launcher base, they will still be sized for a full 64% scale Saturn V and Saturn IB.  Use the DECQ Saturn V for a proper fit.

... even if they are meant to be paired to a "someway realistical scale" of a Saturn, and the exception made for the old BDB one (soon to be dismissed) was done just cause of its popularity, please do not remove the "longer" swing arm (meant for smaller rocket) option:

yeah... those are not "hystorical", but being made for a rocket with more "stock-ish dimensions", they fit perfectly when using parts that follow the 0.625 scale, for builders (like me) that love to use the "saturn style" tower, but with tanks not directly meant to be actually Saturn replicas.
Aside that: there is no particulary needs for a rework, even with the new BDB, Saturn, that is "almost" big enough: a little snudge with the translation tool in the vab, once placed the swing arm meant to be for a "larger diameter" Saturn V (at 64% scale), can bring the swing arms perfectly on the tank skin, without any gaps where they connect to the tower (all the swing arms have enough thickness at the base to be moved a bit even "forward", toward the rocket)

Edited October 4, 2021 by Araym

[jefferyharrell]

@AlphaMensae, I'm not sure whether this is a Bluedog problem or a Modular Launch Pads problem, so I'm reporting it in both threads.

Take a Sarnus BR-375-XI SRB and attach a Modular Launch Pads launch base to its bottom node. (Here I've used General Launch Base 3 - Large but it happens with all the launch bases, I think.)

At first everything is fine, but in short order the BR-375-XI starts to oscillate. The oscillations increase until it's spinning wildly around the pad.

Weird, huh?

[AlphaMensae]

3 hours ago, jefferyharrell said:

@AlphaMensae, I'm not sure whether this is a Bluedog problem or a Modular Launch Pads problem, so I'm reporting it in both threads.

Take a Sarnus BR-375-XI SRB and attach a Modular Launch Pads launch base to its bottom node. (Here I've used General Launch Base 3 - Large but it happens with all the launch bases, I think.)

At first everything is fine, but in short order the BR-375-XI starts to oscillate. The oscillations increase until it's spinning wildly around the pad.

 

KSP sometimes glitches like that, or it could be a problem with post-1.8.1 KSP versions and KJR and/or World Stabilizer if you use them (I use neither in 1.8.1)

Use the stock autostruts instead, and autostrut the base to the root part.

[jefferyharrell]

17 minutes ago, AlphaMensae said:

KSP sometimes glitches like that, or it could be a problem with post-1.8.1 KSP versions and KJR and/or World Stabilizer if you use them (I use neither in 1.8.1)

Use the stock autostruts instead, and autostrut the base to the root part.

I tried it on a bare install with only Bluedog and Modular Launch Pads (and their prereqs) installed. The problem still happens with this one specific part, the BR-375-XI. I tried autostrutting to "root part" and also to "heaviest part" and neither of those had any effect.

I suspect it's some kind of problem with the BR-375-XI itself. For some reason its bottom node is well below the part and it's unusually small. I've left a message in the Bluedog thread to see if somebody on that team can take a look.

[AlphaMensae]

1 hour ago, jefferyharrell said:

I tried it on a bare install with only Bluedog and Modular Launch Pads (and their prereqs) installed. The problem still happens with this one specific part, the BR-375-XI. I tried autostrutting to "root part" and also to "heaviest part" and neither of those had any effect.

I suspect it's some kind of problem with the BR-375-XI itself. For some reason its bottom node is well below the part and it's unusually small. I've left a message in the Bluedog thread to see if somebody on that team can take a look.

Yeah, the extra bottom attach node (size 2....it came from Zorg   ) that a MLP patch gives those AJ260 SRBs is too small.  I tried it out too, and had the same results. Made the node size 4, and upped the breaking force and torque to 40,000 each (100x the value in BDB) as well. No problems with it after that  

You can change the node values by going into the ModularLaunchPads/Compatibility_Patches folder and opening up the BluedogDB-Solids_MLP_Patches.cfg file.  Go to the Saturn AJ260 in line SRBs and change the last value in the node definition from 2 to 4.  The increase in the breaking force and torque may not be necessary, a size 2 node is way too small for those huge SRBs.

I'll update the patches and do another minor update for MLP.

[jefferyharrell]

16 hours ago, AlphaMensae said:

Yeah, the extra bottom attach node (size 2....it came from Zorg   ) that a MLP patch gives those AJ260 SRBs is too small.  I tried it out too, and had the same results. Made the node size 4, and upped the breaking force and torque to 40,000 each (100x the value in BDB) as well. No problems with it after that  

You can change the node values by going into the ModularLaunchPads/Compatibility_Patches folder and opening up the BluedogDB-Solids_MLP_Patches.cfg file.  Go to the Saturn AJ260 in line SRBs and change the last value in the node definition from 2 to 4.  The increase in the breaking force and torque may not be necessary, a size 2 node is way too small for those huge SRBs.

I'll update the patches and do another minor update for MLP.

Yup. Tried it. Changing the node size from 2 to 4 for "bluedog_saturn_AJ260_LongFlared" and "bluedog_saturn_AJ260_ShortFlared" seems to have solved the problem completely. I didn't touch anything else, just the node sizes.

Thanks!

EDIT LATER: Thanks again for fixing this. Now my big dumb booster has a big dumb launch pad to go with it!

Edited October 5, 2021 by jefferyharrell

[davidy12]

@AlphaMensae Will the Saturn V pad get a revamp to add SRBs to the launchpad. B/C most of the MLV Saturn V versions had 4 (sometimes very massive) boosters.

[AlphaMensae]

7 hours ago, davidy12 said:

@AlphaMensae Will the Saturn V pad get a revamp to add SRBs to the launchpad. B/C most of the MLV Saturn V versions had 4 (sometimes very massive) boosters.

Well, it already has rectangular exhaust hole shapes for 2 SRBs, and that will stay, but I'm not doing anything for 4 SRBs other than raising the max temp to something high enough to withstand them firing into the base.

In fact, the Saturn base will become even more of a specialized launch base supporting just the Saturn V (with 3 exhaust hole shapes) and the SLS (with just one shape and integrated hold-downs for the SRBs). I'm not Cobalt, I don't do things for paper rockets  

[zakkpaz]

On 10/9/2021 at 8:40 PM, AlphaMensae said:

 I'm not doing anything for 4 SRBs other than raising the max temp to something high enough to withstand them firing into the base.

Speaking of, the Saturn IB stand needs its heat tolerance raised as well, the new engine mount seems to be angled in a way that exposes it to more heat

[AlphaMensae]

Uploaded v2.2.2 to Spacedock and the GitHub. Changelog:

• Updated Bluedog Design Bureau patches to give larger extra attach nodes to some of the tanks and engines to prevent catastrophic wobbling upon spawn.
• Restored missing CCK tag to the Saturn Hammerhead Crane; it's now visible in the Modular Launch Pads CCK category.
   

I tried an experiment by integrating the Command Seat module into one of the crew elevators cars; it just needs an empty transform for the "seat", the module takes care of the rest. I was able to board a Kerbal into the invisible "seat", but it didn't move with the car, just got left behind on the bottom of the tower.

I did this to see if I could provide an option to deal with the blasted anchoring system trying to pull free-standing Kerbals down through the floor of the car, without having to use the external command seat, which does work but requires Animated Attachment.  Unfortunately it turns out to be a dead end, as I have no idea how to move the integrated seat with the car, or even if it's possible (could be a stupid KSP thing).  The transform for the seat does move in Unity, but alas, not in KSP.

In other news, I have started on making the Delta IV Launch Stand.  I had to simplify the general layout, both to reduce complexity (it's more complicated than I thought, and seems to change from launch to launch) and to enable it to handle 2.5m size core tanks as well as the 3.125m BDB Delta IV. The core and side booster hold-downs and umbilicals (those wedge-shaped boxes on one side of the stand) will each be separately adjustable using deploy-limit sliders.

[OrbitalManeuvers]

34 minutes ago, AlphaMensae said:

In other news, I have started on making the Delta IV Launch Stand.

OK, no pressure but your latest Titan stuff is probably your best stuff to date. Like the whole experience with it, the looks, the functionality, it's very polished. You've set the bar pretty high, just sayin.   Seriously looking forward to this one!