Kerpollo - A Complete Science Mode Run In 9 Acts

[Superfluous J]

1 hour ago, έķ νίĻĻάίή said:

so, NO probe landers?

aww

so that means that I am allowed an orbital relay, as long as it's launched with the rest of the ship.

Yes. you can use them as relays and as scanners for ore, but not much else.

You could technically land one but I literally cannot think of one reason you would, except maybe to determine a nice flat spot to land your real ship. That would be okay. If you have any other reasons say them here because they may break a rule, or require a new rule .

[BeanThruster]

Hi. I'm starting here the challenge

I run very a lightly modded KSP 1.8.1 with MH & BG DLCs. 

list of mods:

• Chatterer
• alarm clock
• Transfer Window Planner

Game settings are custom, with a 80% science rewards, which I feel is a good compromise between challenge and grind.

Quicksaves and reverts are on, as well as parts and Kerbals G-force limits, parts pressure limits, and plasma blackouts

 

Here's the link my first mission (there' also some initial science harvesting aroud KSC)

https://imgur.com/a/08YYoWq

And here is Munpollo.

https://imgur.com/a/PZj99md

 

Next stop, Minmus.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by BeanThruster

[BeanThruster]

On 12/15/2019 at 6:08 AM, 5thHorseman said:

You could technically land one but I literally cannot think of one reason you would, except maybe to determine a nice flat spot to land your real ship. That would be okay. If you have any other reasons say them here because they may break a rule, or require a new rule .

Uhmm, woudn't that break lander rule #1 "Thou Shalt Not Land Thy Ship Unkerbed"?

Anyway, it is intended that the probe can land only on the world(s) being targeted by the mission, right? Otherwise, it would be a totally different game (you could land an ore harvester anywhere for refueling).

And also, can a relay that has been deployed on a given mission be used on the following missions? or should any missions be self-contained also in this sense?

[Superfluous J]

8 minutes ago, BeanThruster said:

Uhmm, woudn't that break lander rule #1 "Thou Shalt Not Land Thy Ship Unkerbed"?

Hm see even I miss out on my rules. Though I don't think it would hurt in any way you are correct, I did say all landings must be kerbed. So no, you cannot land your probes though they can do orbital duties like relays and ore scanning.

Good catch

15 minutes ago, BeanThruster said:

And also, can a relay that has been deployed on a given mission be used on the following missions? or should any missions be self-contained also in this sense?

This is a huge NO. Other than science gained (and Kerbal XP if you have that enabled), each mission should be able to be completed with the single launch for that mission. You should be able to do your entire mission after going into the tracking station and deleting all vessels.

[BeanThruster]

55 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

This is a huge NO. Other than science gained (and Kerbal XP if you have that enabled), each mission should be able to be completed with the single launch for that mission. You should be able to do your entire mission after going into the tracking station and deleting all vessels.

I see, thanks for the clarification! That's what I thought too. 

Edited December 17, 2019 by BeanThruster

[BeanThruster]

Hi again.

I'm posting my third challenge mission, Minpollo. Since I didn't get any feedback from the OP about my first submission, I'm reposting that here, too, just out of convenience.

On 12/16/2019 at 8:41 PM, BeanThruster said:

Hi. I'm starting here the challenge

I run a very a lightly modded KSP 1.8.1 with MH & BG DLCs. 

list of mods:

• Chatterer
• alarm clock
• Transfer Window Planner

Game settings are custom, with a 80% science reward, which I feel is a good compromise between challenge and grind.

Quicksaves and reverts are on, as well as parts and Kerbals G-force limits, parts pressure limits, and plasma blackouts

 

Here's the link to my first mission (there's also some initial science harvesting around KSC)

https://imgur.com/a/08YYoWq

And here is Munpollo.

https://imgur.com/a/PZj99md

and now, Minpollo.

https://imgur.com/a/gQdNdIW

I'm planning now the next mission. Probably the most obvious choice would be Duna. However, my concern is about the science harvest one may obtain from a mission. Given that a single world can be landed just once in the course of the challenge, this means that early landings involve a science loss due to the techologies that are not available yet at that moment. To minimize this loss, the ideal mission target would be a single world (less situations and just one landing, so lesser losses due to the unavailability of gravity and seismic scanners) with no atmosphere (atmospheric scanners are still not available).

In this regard, the best choice would be Dres which, among the possible candidates, has the lowest science multipliers.

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by BeanThruster

[noname_hero]

Are we allowed to delete debris left over from previous missions? I kind of didn't bother myself with that at first, but given I'm seeing Kerpollo as a learning experience, I'm wondering now.

I'll admit I'm kind of salty about how KSP treats debris, as even objects with periapsis noticeably lower than 70 km seem to remain in orbit, so I've gotten used to simply deleting the debris once it annoys me too much. Even if its orbit should be stable. Yes, I do tend to let first stages fall back to Kerbin, or crash later stages into moons if it is not too much of a hassle, but I'm far from religious about keeping space clean. However, I'm beginning to wonder whether that's considered okay-ish or an easy way out by the player community.

[GRS]

Remove it...if that's what you wish...but for more concrete answer...ask @5thHorseman

[Superfluous J]

10 hours ago, BeanThruster said:

Since I didn't get any feedback from the OP about my first submission

Yikes! So sorry! It's a busy time of year and I missed it.

Also, it's a busy time of year and I don't have time to review either of these, probably will tomorrow some time, or Saturday for sure.

[Superfluous J]

4 hours ago, noname_hero said:

Are we allowed to delete debris left over from previous missions?

Yup totally allowed. The challenge is to do everything in its own missions, not avoid debris from previous ones while not using it

[BeanThruster]

35 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

Also, it's a busy time of year and I don't have time to review either of these, probably will tomorrow some time, or Saturday for sure.

I realized my post sounds  a little bit complaining. It was  not my intention, sorry about that. Take your time, I can wait. I’m having a lot of fun anyway.

[Superfluous J]

1 hour ago, BeanThruster said:

Take your time, I can wait. I’m having a lot of fun anyway.

No worries about the tone, I genuinely felt bad because I totally missed the post and am glad you brought it up.

I'm looking at Kerpollo now and believe yours is the first manually-pushed rolly car I've ever seen.

[Superfluous J]

13 hours ago, BeanThruster said:

and now, Minpollo.

Very neat, I liked the swivel lights (I saw they were there but would have missed the hinges had you not mentioned them).

I'll be updating the rankings post when I can but it's a pain on mobile. You're looking good though to continue and I'm glad you're having fun!

7 hours ago, noname_hero said:

However, I'm beginning to wonder whether that's considered okay-ish or an easy way out by the player community.

I don't know about others but I don't think it's a big deal. Really all debris does is slow down the game. The chances of hitting any are so remote.

I do though only delete debris that will crash or intersect a moon's orbit, but on a perfect career that's all of it.

[BeanThruster]

22 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

 

I'll be updating the rankings post when I can but it's a pain on mobile. You're looking good though to continue and I'm glad you're having fun!

Yay, thanks for the review. I have the green light for the next mission, then.

I think I’ll ho for Dres.

[noname_hero]

Since it looks like I might be able to pull off at least *most* of the missions, I realized I should ask about what kind of proof is considered enough. Can I get away with screenshots from the more difficult missions, and say the final savefile? Let's begin with at least some of the screenshots I already have.

Here's the Munpollo mission. I think I have never left an orbiter around Mun before, and it shows on the design. Leaving a pointless landing can in orbit felt extra weird when the lander had two seats, because the *lander* was my return ship. And If anyone's wondering why I'm using the junior docking port, it was the only one I had at the moment.

This one is Minpollo, but taken long after leaving Minmus. 60 science in return for a kind of crazy ship design wasn't much, but the asteroid looked pretty:

Here's Bob on Dres. The wreckage in the background is definitely bigger than it appears, and IIRC there's still some fuel left in it, but Dres is too hilly for me to be able to land on transfer stage's engines.

And the last one is near Eeloo. The reason the ship shows too little delta v is the drop tanks built out of those Mk1 liquid fuel tanks. Once I ditched those, I had about 6k delta v more, but I have no idea why the game sometimes glitches like that. However, I even had enough fuel to aim for a desert on Kerbin and gain a few more science points back home.

[noname_hero]

Ummm... Are Vostok-style landings legal for this challenge?

I'm not happy to prove myself kinda stupid, but I've managed to forget to upgrade my Mohollo lander for the Dunpollo mission and I took *three* kerbonauts to Duna+Ike. And I only noticed my stupidity *after* landing on Duna.

I can brake my transfer stage to subsonic speeds, do an EVA and land my third kerbonaut on parachute, so the mission is not a deadly failure.I have more than enough fuel to land both the lander and the transfer stage in the same biome. And the rules as I read them don't require all landers to survive.

But landing on a parachute does feel kind of wrong. So can I count the mission a success, or should I rebuild my ship?

 

[GRS]

Parachuting your way after finishing the mission ? I believe it's fine...but for a more concrete answer...ask @5thHorseman, Any Landing method on a target world is fine as long as they get to the same Biome and came from orbit (or maybe Parabolic) as one...

Don't worry...you're not the only one...i went for my Mohollo and even dipping to Low Kerbol Space despite the tight-ish fuel margins for a Moho visit, and it took me long to realize...i FORGOT the Parachute...btw...i brought 5...i end up Parachuting my way down...but i repeated because i wasn't satusfied with the Science Count...

Edited December 25, 2019 by GRS

[noname_hero]

I thought that asking here would be enough, given that 5thHorseman reads this topic.

 

I'm perfectly okay with the Science, because my lander brought back 87 experiments and >7k Science. But my orbiter/transfer stage had to deorbit Kerbin with Jeb still aboard, because I forgot to upgrade my lander for three kerbonauts. I've been able to brake down to about 250 m/s, and I could push this even lower if I burned away some those 4 km/s worth of fuel it still had on board, but it has neither the TWR nor the parachutes for a safe landing. So Jeb had to land on parachute, and I'm torn between wanting a propper landing and not wanting to fly the same mission again.

[GRS]

Just land in anyways you wish to...it's your mission...

[noname_hero]

Okay, I'll call it mission accomplished, unless 5thHorseman says otherwise. And here's the first (fake, I know) sunrise the brave crew got to see after spending months on the transfer from Ike to Kerbin. Yes, the transfer stage has landing struts too, because I've landed the whole ship on Ike. Yes, there's more than 5 km/s of fuel in the transfer stage {the small Mk1 LF tanks are toggled off as a reserve), because I walk the path of overengineering one's delta v. Yes, you can see the Mk2 landing can on the transfer stage, where it shouldn't be, not on the lander, where it should have been.

I'll be a good kerbal from now on and not design my ships while there's still alcohol from a family Kristmass dinner dumbing me down.

However, I've remembered the lesson I've learned during my previous Duna+Ike mission in another playthrough, so the lander is *not* upside down this time:

 

Crap.

It was only when I posted here that I realized I forgot to leave the small lander to orbit Ike, although the rules of the challenge require a kerbal in orbit during every landing.

Oh well, at least I'll remember to leave room for all kerbonauts in the lander next time. Or maybe I'll revert to a quicksave from before my Ike landing, and make Jeb parachute down again...

 

Edited December 25, 2019 by noname_hero

[Superfluous J]

13 hours ago, noname_hero said:

I thought that asking here would be enough, given that 5thHorseman reads this topic.

It is, but as @GRS has correctly surmised through experience you get me a little quicker if you at-mention me

(more coming soon it's a busy time right now and I don't know when or how verbosely I'll be able to respond to the posts made since my last visit)

[Superfluous J]

On 12/22/2019 at 4:51 AM, noname_hero said:

Since it looks like I might be able to pull off at least *most* of the missions, I realized I should ask about what kind of proof is considered enough.

I would say bare minimum is a shot of your tech tree before the mission, the vessel on the pad, again in orbit of the target world, again landed on the target world, and finally landed back on Kerbin. And once you've gotten docking ports a picture of the lander redocking (or re-docked) to the orbiter.

No save file, I probably won't have time to go that in-depth and it wouldn't include the craft files anyway, just whatever was scattered around the system.

I love your screen shots and comments, but one picture per mission is just not enough proof Do you have more? I'm willing to bend the rules if you're missing a picture or two but this would be breaking them.

15 hours ago, noname_hero said:

Ummm... Are Vostok-style landings legal for this challenge?

I agree with GRS's comment, they are fine so long as you land in the same biome as the lander. So aim for the water or something big and well defined like the ice sheet, or be ready to reload multiple times to get it right.

 

I added this to the OP. It should have been there before.

 

PROOF

• Bare minimum proof. I need a picture of, for every mission (in sunlight if possible):
  • Your tech tree before the mission started. i.e., what you had to work with.
  • Your vessel on the launch pad.
  • Your vessel (Lander + Orbiter if you have docking ports) orbiting the target world.
  • Your lander on the surface.
  • Your vessels back in orbit after landing, if you need to re-dock. They can be docked or on the verge of docking.
  • Your return portion of your ship landed on Kerbin.
  • Any special circumstances that need explained.
• But go for broke. Take pictures like you're on vacation and post them all I'll love them. Or do a video!

[noname_hero]

I'll see what I can do if I finish the challenge, and I'll keep those standards in mind from now on, but I'm not much of an avid screenshooter, so I'd have to reload old savefiles (mission launches, target landings, returns to Kerbin) and make some new screenshots. And I'd have to fake some of those screenshots, because I usually don't have savefiles from before re-docking etc, so I'd have to launch and redock again to be able to make a re-docking screenshot. I can, but those wouldn't be screenshots from actual mission, just reenactments. However, I'd make clear distinction between original savefile shots and re-enacted scenes.

If you won't find the proof sufficient, simply don't accept it, no need to bend the rules. I began this mainly as a learning experience, and it did teach me a few things, so I promise there'll be no hard feelings if I don't make it onto a list. Oh, and I'm not trying to make the list sound pointless here, I'm trying to say *I* will know whether I finished the challenge or not, no matter what I show to the 'net.

So thanks for the original idea, no matter how how my own attemp ends up.

[Superfluous J]

1 hour ago, noname_hero said:

I'll see what I can do if I finish the challenge, and I'll keep those standards in mind from now on, but I'm not much of an avid screenshooter, so I'd have to reload old savefiles (mission launches, target landings, returns to Kerbin) and make some new screenshots. And I'd have to fake some of those screenshots, because I usually don't have savefiles from before re-docking etc, so I'd have to launch and redock again to be able to make a re-docking screenshot. I can, but those wouldn't be screenshots from actual mission, just reenactments. However, I'd make clear distinction between original savefile shots and re-enacted scenes.

This seems totally reasonable to me, as it does show that your craft (and you) are capable of what you said they did. And if a screenshot will take way too much time and effort to get mention it here, I may be overwhelmed by the Christmas spirit

Quote

If you won't find the proof sufficient, simply don't accept it, no need to bend the rules. I began this mainly as a learning experience, and it did teach me a few things

That's actually one of the reasons I did the first Kerpollo program way back before 1.0 was even a thing, so I can totally understand that

NOTE TO EVERYBODY

I'm on vacation from early Saturday morning through to late the following Saturday night, and will have little to no Internet the entire time. Those few precious moments of Internet access I happen to get, I'll likely not use here

So anything that happens on this thread (or anywhere else but this is my most active thread) will have to wait until about January 5th or even later.

Edited December 26, 2019 by 5thHorseman

[noname_hero]

'okay, I do have some time to play, so let me try to post a bit more about the first few missions.

Kerbinpollo

I had to begin with gathering plenty of science from the launchpad and surrounding biomes, as it was kind of obvious that with only nine rocket launches, getting lots of science during my first mission would make later missions both easier and more profitable in terms of even more science. So my first few launches were variations on this theme:

I've been able to get *lots* of science without taking off:

My efforts around the KSC gave me enought science to build a monster capable of landing on the Mun. However, doing so seemed like a bad idea, because I had to go there anyway, and I could use my first launch to gather science that would give me tech that would make my future Mun landing generate even *more* science. Yes, I'm sure you can see a trend here. So I went for both a Munshot and a Minmushot during my first launch. The monster I've mentioned is here:

I don't have savefiles from those flybys, just the monster ready for the gravity assist around Mun. I hope you'll agree that the delta v it shows is enough to make it past Minmus and back.

And here's a shot of my brave kerbonauts back on Kerbin, Bob getting ready to do an EVA for even *more* science. Notice the snack box Experiment Storage Unit on top of the craft, an amazing piece of technology you''ll be able to spot on *all* my Kerpollo craft.

And yes, another fixed feature of my Kerpollo missions will be Bob, for all that sweet Science he brings home.