Kerbin Collaborative Space Station

Alienwall · March 16, 2019

Here's what I have for docking pier designs to choose from:

Spoiler

1.25m-1.25m:

Fits into a Lyra (w/ custom fairing: 33,234). Could fit into a Z-1 but it's at the payload limit and that would also require a custom fairing. Attaches 5 medium docking ports (4 radial, one on the bottom) to the station. Power/control in service bay.

1.25m-1.25m (XL):

Provides more clearance than the other one. Fits in a Lyra (33,994, custom fairing needed). Attaches 5 medium docking ports (4 radial, one on the bottom) to the station. Power/control in service bay.

2.5m-1.25m:

Can be launched with a Muon 6 (42,434). Technically should fit in a Lyra, but the fairing might be too big. Since a lot of the modules here are 2.5m, this might fit better than the 1.25-1.25 ones. Attaches 5 medium docking ports (4 radial, one on the bottom) to the station. Power/control in service bay.

2.5m-2.5m

Can fit in a Muon 6 (50,302) or anything larger. Attaches 8 medium docking ports (radially) and one large docking port (on the bottom) to the station. Power/control in the service bay.

It seems like only one of these can be brought to the station, so if you don't mind I'll leave the choice of which to use up to you all.

Also, I made a docking tug:

Spoiler

Fits into a Z-1 (24,370) or a Lyra (23,370 + custom fairing). It can control itself, and has solar panels in the service bay for power.

Johnster_Space_Program · March 16, 2019

@Ultimate Steve this Is what I have so far today:

I have made an improved version of the fuel tug, here are the stats:

Mass: 15.3 Tons

Delta V: 3,382 m/s (Vacuum)

Launcher: Sky III

I have designed a cheap science package, with some science experiments onboard:

Mass: 0.93 Tons

Has: Clamp-o-Tron Docking Port (Can dock with fuel tug's 2 smaller docking ports)

Launcher: Z-1

Now @Rover 6428 can add my name to the science package as well. Also its better than some stuff is cheaper now, and requires less time between launches.

Ultimate Steve · March 16, 2019

6 hours ago, GRS said:

What you guys could suggest about my part (i'm quite good in going big, i normally go big)

@Rover 6428 posted a possible list back, you could take something that isn't taken, or a better variant of something that exists, or something completely new. Also consider that big is not necessarily better, especially with the 600,000 fund budget.

4 hours ago, Alienwall said:

Here's what I have for docking pier designs to choose from:

Excellent job!

4 hours ago, Johnster_Space_Program said:

@Ultimate Steve this Is what I have so far today:

I have made an improved version of the fuel tug, here are the stats:

Also excellent job!

4 hours ago, Johnster_Space_Program said:

I have designed a cheap science package, with some science experiments onboard:

Be advised that, overall, the station needs:

Have the materials bay, goo, thermometer, barometer, gravioli detector, seismometer, surface scanner, atmosphere sensor, sentinel telescope, and narrow band scanner on board.

As in Part II. Those last 2 science experiments might benefit from launching on something else, though. Be advised, these experiments also get a bit expensive.

Also be advised that you're submitting an awful lot of stuff.

To be honest, guys, this is already going a whole lot better than I'd expected it to! Great job to all, and I wish you continued success!

fulgur · March 16, 2019

For the crew vehicles we have to design, can they be SSTOs (if they don't use RAPIERs)? And would recovery change the budget?

Ultimate Steve · March 16, 2019

22 minutes ago, fulgur said:

For the crew vehicles we have to design, can they be SSTOs (if they don't use RAPIERs)? And would recovery change the budget?

Hmm, now that's something that I didn't consider, and it wasn't really intending for an SSTO to be proposed... But, I didn't consciously make any rules against it.

From the rules:

Man rating guidelines for crew vehicles:

Backup parachute
Backup electrical systems
Can land on both water and land
Must possess a launch escape system that will work at any point during ascent
Must have a docking port
Must have full RCS capability
Must have an antenna
Must not use EVA seats
Must be able to operate without a crew
Must launch on a man rated launch vehicle

If crew and cargo vehicles are reusable, the cost of that vehicle will be dropped to 33%.

End rules.

It looks like those rules would encourage a traditional capsule design, but if your spaceplane is cheap enough, because it is a lifter and a crew vehicle, it *could* possibly drop the cost per flight to below the cost of a reusable capsule and an expendable lifter.

The only thing I have a problem with is the last bullet point, must launch on a man rated launch vehicle.

And this isn't part of the rules, but I said it earlier in the thread:

Quote

Just remember that whatever crew/cargo vehicles you design, they need to fly on existing rockets!

When I wrote the "man rated launch vehicle" requirement I was not thinking of spaceplanes, so because it's sort of a grey area...

Sure, but just this once.

New rule:

Overall, one SSTO can be accepted for either a crew vehicle or a cargo vehicle. The government is intrigued by this idea and will pay for it to be man-rated if it follows these guidelines:
- Can go-around on landing
- No solids except in abort system
- At least some margin
- Adhere to all of the normal crew vehicle guidelines
- I will make the final decision on man rating and will provide suggestions, etc.

You may propose it, but it's up to everyone else if it gets in. Luckily, there isn't much competition in that department yet.

EDIT: There is a new requirement for man rated capsules. It must be able to operate without crew.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Ultimate Steve

Rover 6428 · March 16, 2019

The Plan:

1) Control (Administrative) module [@VA7NFH]

2) Habitation Module 1 [@Rover 6428]

3) Power Array 1 [@MSA]

4) Laboratory Module [@Rover 6428]

5) Science Package [@Johnster_Space_Program]

6) Docking Pier [@Alienwall]

7) Communication Tower [@VA7NFH]

8) Escape pods [@Barzon Kerman]

(First Crew arrives [@Barzon Kerman])

9) Fuel Depot Module [@Johnster_Space_Program]

10) Laboratory Module 2 [@Rover 6428] (Piloted by @Alienwall)

11) Habitation Module 2 [@swjr-swis]

12) Cupola & EVA Modules [@GRS] (Piloted by @Barzon Kerman)

13) Power Array 2 [@MSA]

(Second Crew arrives [@fulgur)

14) Science Package [@Johnster_Space_Program] (Piloted by @VA7NFH)

If you have issues or suggestions on other modules, dm me.

This also applies to the order of launches.
Also, It would be nice if the crew members would be named after the participants (like in collaboration station)

Edited March 18, 2019 by Rover 6428

Ultimate Steve · March 16, 2019

3 minutes ago, Rover 6428 said:

So far this is the plan:

Again, I would like to stress that the limit is 2 modules per person. While some people have suggested more than two modules (which is fine) only two per person can be on the final list. thank you for taking the time to organize the plan, though!

Edited March 16, 2019 by Ultimate Steve

Rover 6428 · March 16, 2019

1 minute ago, Ultimate Steve said:

Again, I would like to stress that the limit is 2 modules per person. While some people have suggested more than two modules (which is fine) only two per person can be on the final list. thank you for taking the time to organize the plan, though!

Some modules are the same. There is just multiple of them

Ultimate Steve · March 16, 2019

Just now, Rover 6428 said:

Some modules are the same. There is just multiple of them

Correct, and I'm sorry if I'm being confusing, but there can only be two modules launched per person and 2 modules accepted per person, regardless if they are the same design or not.

Rover 6428 · March 16, 2019

1 minute ago, Ultimate Steve said:

Correct, and I'm sorry if I'm being confusing, but there can only be two modules launched per person and 2 modules accepted per person, regardless if they are the same design or not.

This is the only way so far to build the station that fits the requirements with this amount of people. I can say that other people will fly my modules, but that still would not be enough. If I were you, I would consider softening the rules a little bit in order to make the challenge possible with the given amount of participants.

Ultimate Steve · March 16, 2019

1 minute ago, Rover 6428 said:

This is the only way so far to build the station that fits the requirements with this amount of people. I can say that other people will fly my modules, but that still would not be enough. If I were you, I would consider softening the rules a little bit in order to make the challenge possible with the given amount of participants.

...Alright. I would prefer if you didn't utilize this, but I guess separating designs from launches could be alright... The limit is now 2 designs accepted and 3 modules launched.

Rover 6428 · March 16, 2019

6 minutes ago, Ultimate Steve said:

...Alright. I would prefer if you didn't utilize this, but I guess separating designs from launches could be alright... The limit is now 2 designs accepted and 3 modules launched.

Now it's perfectly feasible. We only need one independent designer for Stage 12 and we are ready for liftoff. Do you want to participate by any chance?

Edited March 16, 2019 by Rover 6428

Ultimate Steve · March 16, 2019

2 minutes ago, Rover 6428 said:

8 minutes ago, Ultimate Steve said:

Now it's perfectly feasible. We only need one independent designer for Stage 12 and we are ready for liftoff. Do you want to participate by any chance?

I'm not supposed to.

Also there's still the crew/cargo vehicles, budget considerations, and a general plan of what will dock to what, but you are almost done with the proposal and module planning phase.

Rover 6428 · March 16, 2019

1 minute ago, Ultimate Steve said:

I'm not supposed to.

Also there's still the crew/cargo vehicles, budget considerations, and a general plan of what will dock to what, but you are almost done with the proposal and module planning phase.

I think it would be okay it people just dock to wherever they can. Budget will be worried at the last moment, as I don't know the total sum of the cost of all the vehicles so far. (due to some of them not being made yet)

9 hours ago, GRS said:

What you guys could suggest about my part (i'm quite good in going big, i normally go big)

could you do iva & cupola?

Ultimate Steve · March 16, 2019

1 minute ago, Rover 6428 said:

I think it would be okay it people just dock to wherever they can. Budget will be worried at the last moment, as I don't know the total sum of the cost of all the vehicles so far. (due to some of them not being made yet)

Budget thing understandable. I would really like if there was a docking plan, however, once the modules are all designed. Can you imagine what would happen if the ISS was built without a docking plan...

Rover 6428 · March 16, 2019

9 minutes ago, Ultimate Steve said:

Budget thing understandable. I would really like if there was a docking plan, however, once the modules are all designed. Can you imagine what would happen if the ISS was built without a docking plan...

It would be nice though if I wasn't the only one doing the homework. I have REAL one to do BTW.

total budget is :funds: 4200000 btw

Edited March 16, 2019 by Rover 6428

Ultimate Steve · March 16, 2019

5 minutes ago, Rover 6428 said:

It would be nice though if I wasn't the only one doing the homework. I have REAL one to do BTW.

total budget is 4200000 btw

@Johnster_Space_Program You are pretty invested in this challenge, any suggestions for the program?

As in 4.2 million is what the cost is currently at? Ouch. 18 launches (14+4 vehicles) means 233k per flight... There's got to be some way that can be optimized... Maybe I was being too restrictive with 600k, as that means 33k per launch... I also didn't anticipate 14 modules, or as many large modules, though... If you can't get it down then I might help you out, but only if y'all make an effort to reduce costs and can't get it to the budget.

And @Rover 6428 don't feel like you have to do everything. I'm sorry if I'm making you feel like that, that was not my intent. Best of luck on your homework!

Rover 6428 · March 16, 2019

3 minutes ago, Ultimate Steve said:

As in 4.2 million is what the cost is currently at?

no, that's the overall budget for the program (Excluding GRS's money) I didn't count up the cost yet

Edited March 16, 2019 by Rover 6428

Ultimate Steve · March 16, 2019

Just now, Rover 6428 said:

no, that's the overall budget for the program (Excluding GRS's money)

Where are you getting that number from? The budget is and always has been 600k, although I may increase that due to the amount of challenge participation. It's 600k overall and not per person, sorry.

Rover 6428 · March 16, 2019

4 minutes ago, Ultimate Steve said:

It's 600k overall and not per person, sorry.

oh ... that will be problematic

If somebody counts up the cost of each rocket * number of launches (look at plan), that would be helpful.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Rover 6428

fulgur · March 16, 2019

Thanks for the clarification! Will continue designing tomorrow GMT.

Johnster_Space_Program · March 16, 2019

2 hours ago, Rover 6428 said:

If somebody counts up the cost of each rocket * number of launches (look at plan), that would be helpful.

I can do that on a google spreadsheet and recommend changes to bring down cost for everyone in total under 600k. I recommend we have at least 50-75k in funds left out of the 600k in case a bad random event where we have to pay funds or something else bad happens...

Edit: Here is the first look at it, currently has stats for all launch vehicles:

Edited March 16, 2019 by Johnster_Space_Program

GRS · March 16, 2019

2 hours ago, Rover 6428 said:

could you do iva & cupola?

I think i'll find some references from internet, for the Cupola ones, about "IVA", i think you probably meant "EVA".

Johnster_Space_Program · March 16, 2019

@Ultimate Steve and @Rover 6428 I have made this google spreadsheet to help out with figuring out costs like rover 6428 said someone should do, number of launches, current plans, etc.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1a-bhkzUqAgszINbBj0dLyvn2UGxF_EBI-Y3NJv5S9K8/edit?usp=sharing

If you have anything to add to it that would be great.

fulgur · March 17, 2019

I have begun R&D for the reusable Wisp 1 SSTO. Here's the Launch Escape System (LES) tests.

Spoiler

The Wisp 1 is probe-controlled, has a cargo bay full of supplies and solar. It has one retractable antenna and two 1x6 solar panels. There are 2 backup fuel cells and a tank of monoprop. The twin side pods are the Launch Escape System.

Spoiler