[1.12.1] JNSQ [0.10.0] [23 Sept 2021]

[Gordon Fecyk]

10 hours ago, Galileo said:

Can anyone give some feed back on the performance while using the latest update?

Just installed 0.7.0 an hour ago. I'm bottoming out at 40 FPS according to NVidia Share, when I have my 60+ part prototype landed in a scatter-heavy area. Terrain scatter and texture quality maxed out. And I noticed the quality settings had a JNSQ_ prefix, as I deleted settings.cfg as required.

Graphic add-ons: latest EVE and Scatterer as of last weekend, Textures Unlimited as of last week. Running at 1920 x 1080 with KSP native full screen, not the true-full-screen hack for Unity yet. Using -force-d3d11 switch as required by Textures Unlimited.

PC is an Intel i7 i4770 (4th gen), 32 GB RAM, NVidia-branded GeForce GTX 1080, so no overclocking hacks on any part. OS is Win10 Pro release 1809, updated as of last week. No OS hacks to stop services or unload stock kernel modules or drivers, and that includes Windows Defender.

[Galileo]

7 minutes ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

Just installed 0.7.0 an hour ago. I'm bottoming out at 40 FPS according to NVidia Share, when I have my 60+ part prototype landed in a scatter-heavy area. Terrain scatter and texture quality maxed out. And I noticed the quality settings had a JNSQ_ prefix, as I deleted settings.cfg as required.

Graphic add-ons: latest EVE and Scatterer as of last weekend, Textures Unlimited as of last week. Running at 1920 x 1080 with KSP native full screen, not the true-full-screen hack for Unity yet. Using -force-d3d11 switch as required by Textures Unlimited.

PC is an Intel i7 i4770 (4th gen), 32 GB RAM, NVidia-branded GeForce GTX 1080, so no overclocking hacks on any part. OS is Win10 Pro release 1809, updated as of last week. No OS hacks to stop services or unload stock kernel modules or drivers, and that includes Windows Defender.

Thanks! Would you say that the performance is acceptable, or comparable to stock with the same mod loadout?

[Gordon Fecyk]

14 minutes ago, Galileo said:

Would you say that the performance is acceptable, or comparable to stock with the same mod loadout?

Maybe put together a survey site for this so you can see metrics and trends (frame rate by CPU type or GPU type for instance).

If I get a frame rate above 30 on or near a surface, I consider that acceptable. I usually end up editing film at NTSC Progressive (29.97). Plus I don't get yellow timers until 20 FPS. 60 / 59.96 would be ideal; I'll usually cap my frame rate to 60 and set refresh to match VSync to prevent image tearing. In space, I ideally want to get 60.

Compared to stock, I've been getting 40 with Stock Visual Terrain on the surface until my part count gets to absurd levels. When I managed to fix Alien Space Programs for frame rate issues, I got 40 again with the same graphics add-ons but on Direct3D 9. I'll have to try Textures Unlimited and D3D11 now to properly compare, or not TU and D3D9 on JNSQ. I'll report back later.

[jefferyharrell]

3 hours ago, Galileo said:

Can you try that same install without JNSQ and compare for me? 

Okay, here are the exact steps I took. First, I made a copy of my KSP folder. Then I deleted the settings.cfg file and the JNSQ GameData folder, leaving everything else the same. I booted up the game, changed my graphics settings back to where they'd been with the exception of "Terrain Detail" which I set to "High" instead of "JNSQ_High," obviously. Scatters were ON. I then started a new game and built a very simple rocket: Advanced Nose Cone Type A, RC-001S, FL-T400, FL-T800, LV-T15 Valiant from Restock Plus. Set MechJeb's SmartASS to "SURF" and "UP," full throttle, space bar, wait until flame-out. Result: A pretty consistent 45-55 FPS all the way up. Maybe a slight rise by 3-ish FPS above 20,000 m, but I can't be sure; my FPS was quite noisy, jumping up and down in the 45-55 range the whole time.

Then for a test I turned OFF terrain scatters in this non-JNSQ-but-still-fully-modded game and did the same thing with the same rocket. Result: 80 FPS on the launchpad, rising to 90-ish above 20,000 m.

So as a fun little experiment I went back to my JNSQ folder and turned scatters OFF. Did the same test. Result: In the range of 48-50 FPS right at liftoff, then 50+ FPS climbing steadily to 60-65 by the time I got to about 60,000 m.

For your recollection, the first time I did this test in JNSQ with terrain scatters on, I was getting 30+ FPS on the pad and during ascent, spiking up pretty dramatically above 50 between 20,000 and 30,000 m.

So on my PC, with my mods (many) and my graphics settings (very high) I'm seeing roughly the same performance at low altitudes between JNSQ with scatters OFF and non-JNSQ with scatters ON. The performance hit to go from non-JNSQ-no-scatters to JNSQ-with-scatters is huge, roughly a 50 FPS penalty.

However, I personally consider anything above about 24 FPS to be utterly playable in KSP. In the 30s and I'm happy.

If I were a more fastidious person I'd remove EVE and/or Scatterer and see if any of the performance hit is attributable to those mods. But it's late here, and my game takes like five minutes to load, so ugh. I will, however, be happy to provide more information if you want it.

[kerbnub]

Is it just me or is JNSQ not configured for Kronometer? I'm still seeing 6hr days with it installed.

Edited June 19, 2019 by kerbnub

[Eklykti]

 

1 hour ago, kerbnub said:

Is it just me or is JNSQ not configured for Kronometer? I'm still seeing 6hr days with it installed.

Do you have the latest Kronometer 1.7.1x?

[kerbnub]

3 hours ago, Eklykti said:

 

Do you have the latest Kronometer 1.7.1x?

I'm still on KSP 1.6.1, so I'm using Kronometer 1.6.0-1.

[OhioBob]

2 hours ago, kerbnub said:

I'm still on KSP 1.6.1, so I'm using Kronometer 1.6.0-1. 

Are you using the backport version of Kopernicus, 1.6.1-8?  If so, that's probably your problem.  I think you need to use Kronometer 1.7.1-1 with either the new Kopernicus or its backports.  Kronometer 1.6.0-1 will probably only work with old Kopernicus 1.6.1-2.

[Jognt]

@Galileo Just checked performance on my install, playable just fine while I flew around KSC. I'm still getting a constant spam of "[Kopernicus] Remove 16 colliders" while out there with Scatters enabled (5700 entries for a ~2 minute flight). Since it's a Kopernicus error I'm not sure whether it's useful to you guys, but since you're asking about performance.. I thougth I'd mention it.

Another thing I'd like to run by you: On initial setup the Graphics>quality slider would have "JNSQ_Low" etc in it, that has now reverted back to "low, medium, high, high, high" for me, with the last 2 'high' settings throwing an outOfBoundsException. Is this expected behavior? (I recall you answering this earlier in the thread, so I'm just doublechecking)

Link to log if needed: https://www.dropbox.com/s/m9j70ghzkd94z0a/JNSQoutput_log.zip?dl=0
With regards to the nullrefs from CorrectCoL, that was due to me doing some experimenting with wings and nodes. It should be unrelated.

[HawkEngineer]

I started a new career with 0.7 version of JNSQ, KSP v1.7.1.  I noticed that my parachutes do not fully deploy and slow my probes down before crashing into the group.  I tried to adjust the altitude and pressure settings for when the parachutes deploy without any luck.  I have attached the log file below but I wanted to see if anyone else has seen this issue before I try to uninstall different mods to see if there is a conflict.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0jmm9gc9jpuwhae/KSP.log?dl=0

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by HawkEngineer

[jefferyharrell]

31 minutes ago, HawkEngineer said:

I started a new career with 0.7 version of JNSQ, KSP v1.7.2.

I don't think you can run JNSQ on 1.7.2 yet because Kopernicus hasn't been updated.

[OhioBob]

1 hour ago, HawkEngineer said:

I started a new career with 0.7 version of JNSQ, KSP v1.7.2.  I noticed that my parachutes do not fully deploy and slow my probes down before crashing into the group.  I tried to adjust the altitude and pressure settings for when the parachutes deploy without any luck.  I have attached the log file below but I wanted to see if anyone else has seen this issue before I try to uninstall different mods to see if there is a conflict.

I suspect you have a mod conflict.  I don't know what you have installed, but I see references in your log to FAR and other mods that may be altering parachutes.  I have no idea how these might interact with JNSQ and TweakChutes.

You can always try unistalling the TweakChutes config to see if that fixes the problem... GameData/JNSQ/JNSQ_Configs/TweakChutes.cfg.

(edit)

Of course uninstalling TweakChutes means that you'll have some parachute behavior that is contrary to what we want in JNSQ.  TweakChutes is there for a reason.  If some other mod is conflicting with it, we'd rather you uninstall the other mod and play JNSQ the way we intend it to be played.
 

Edited June 19, 2019 by OhioBob

[HawkEngineer]

2 minutes ago, jefferyharrell said:

I don't think you can run JNSQ on 1.7.2 yet because Kopernicus hasn't been updated.

My bad, I meant to say I was running 1.7.1 for KSP.

[jefferyharrell]

24 minutes ago, OhioBob said:

I have no idea how these might interact with JNSQ and TweakChutes.

For the record, I have Real Chute installed and have noticed no parachute-related issues. I haven't done a TON of reentries in my JNSQ game yet though.

[HawkEngineer]

3 hours ago, OhioBob said:

I suspect you have a mod conflict.  I don't know what you have installed, but I see references in your log to FAR and other mods that may be altering parachutes.  I have no idea how these might interact with JNSQ and TweakChutes.

You can always try unistalling the TweakChutes config to see if that fixes the problem... GameData/JNSQ/JNSQ_Configs/TweakChutes.cfg.

(edit)

Of course uninstalling TweakChutes means that you'll have some parachute behavior that is contrary to what we want in JNSQ.  TweakChutes is there for a reason.  If some other mod is conflicting with it, we'd rather you uninstall the other mod and play JNSQ the way we intend it to be played.
 

I uninstalled FAR and everything seems to be working fine for the parachutes on a limited test set.  Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[kerbnub]

11 hours ago, OhioBob said:

Are you using the backport version of Kopernicus, 1.6.1-8?  If so, that's probably your problem.  I think you need to use Kronometer 1.7.1-1 with either the new Kopernicus or its backports.  Kronometer 1.6.0-1 will probably only work with old Kopernicus 1.6.1-2.

Indeed; it's all working with Kronometer 1.7.1-1, Kopernicus 1.6.1-8, and KSP 1.6.1.

Thanks!

Edited June 20, 2019 by kerbnub

[jefferyharrell]

If I may be excused for asking, is anybody else finding Scatterer to be kind of crash-prone under JNSQ? I've been working on my guidance program so I've been doing a lot of revert-to-launches. Maybe as often as one time in ten, KSP will crash and the last entries in the log will be messages from Scatterer. It's possible that Scatterer is just plain buggy under these conditions and it has nothing to do with JNSQ, but I thought I'd ask.

My workaround is obvious: Just move the Scatterer folder out of GameData when I'm gonna be doing a lot of reverting. It seems to alleviate the crashes, but man the ocean is ugly.

[Galileo]

2 hours ago, jefferyharrell said:

If I may be excused for asking, is anybody else finding Scatterer to be kind of crash-prone under JNSQ? I've been working on my guidance program so I've been doing a lot of revert-to-launches. Maybe as often as one time in ten, KSP will crash and the last entries in the log will be messages from Scatterer. It's possible that Scatterer is just plain buggy under these conditions and it has nothing to do with JNSQ, but I thought I'd ask.

My workaround is obvious: Just move the Scatterer folder out of GameData when I'm gonna be doing a lot of reverting. It seems to alleviate the crashes, but man the ocean is ugly.

My updated ocean settings/textures are ugly? 

 

 

Scatter is just as as stable as it was back in the day. There are the occasional crashes unfortunately. It not exclusive to JNSQ

Edited June 20, 2019 by Galileo

[jefferyharrell]

33 minutes ago, Galileo said:

My updated ocean settings/textures are ugly? 

I'm not seeing that at all! With Scatterer removed from the GameData folder but everything else left alone, I see an ugly ocean texture that's visibly tiled, like a grid of blue-patterned squares. Is there an obvious place I should look to troubleshoot this? My game has Distant Object, EVE and PlanetShine in addition to Scatterer, all installed via CKAN. And the right version of Kopernicus, obviously.

Let me be clear: It's not your job to do tech support. So if you have any off-the-top-of-your-head hints I'd love to hear them, but other than that don't sweat it. It's clearly a problem on my end.

Oh, and re: the crashes, that's what I figured. Oh well, occasional crashes encourage me to take breaks from the game.

Edited June 20, 2019 by jefferyharrell

[TheKurgan]

Just wish I could recreate This... but with the newer shading.

I had the waves, and the whitecaps perfect

I grew up right next to the ocean in Newfoundland, and at the time this SS was taken, I had it as realistic as possible... have not been able to re-create it in at least a year... maybe 2

3 minutes ago, jefferyharrell said:

With Scatterer removed from the GameData folder

Why do you have Scatterer removed from your Gamedata folder?

[jefferyharrell]

3 minutes ago, TheKurgan said:

Why do you have Scatterer removed from your Gamedata folder?

It's a temporary thing. I'm working on my kOS guidance program, which involves a lot of reverting. I've found that with Scatterer on board, reverting has a chance of causing a game crash. Since my game takes like 5 minutes to start up each time, I've temporarily moved Scatterer out of the GameData folder to try to avoid, or at least reduce, the crashing. So far it's working well. I'm just not seeing what I think Galileo says I should be seeing with Scatterer not installed.

[Galileo]

23 minutes ago, jefferyharrell said:

I'm not seeing that at all! With Scatterer removed from the GameData folder but everything else left alone, I see an ugly ocean texture that's visibly tiled, like a grid of blue-patterned squares. Is there an obvious place I should look to troubleshoot this? My game has Distant Object, EVE and PlanetShine in addition to Scatterer, all installed via CKAN. And the right version of Kopernicus, obviously.

Let me be clear: It's not your job to do tech support. So if you have any off-the-top-of-your-head hints I'd love to hear them, but other than that don't sweat it. It's clearly a problem on my end.

Oh, and re: the crashes, that's what I figured. Oh well, occasional crashes encourage me to take breaks from the game.

The new ocean is in the latest version. It’s done via Kopernicus, so there is no extra work to be done. Scatterer just can’t be present, obviously 

[sturmhauke]

18 minutes ago, jefferyharrell said:

It's a temporary thing. I'm working on my kOS guidance program, which involves a lot of reverting. I've found that with Scatterer on board, reverting has a chance of causing a game crash. Since my game takes like 5 minutes to start up each time, I've temporarily moved Scatterer out of the GameData folder to try to avoid, or at least reduce, the crashing. So far it's working well. I'm just not seeing what I think Galileo says I should be seeing with Scatterer not installed.

When I'm experimenting with weird stuff, or even just doing a challenge that requires specific mods, I create a separate install with a stripped-down mod list. Only my main sandbox install has all my mods. That way it keeps the load times down and reduces the chance of bugs from mod interactions.

[Galileo]

27 minutes ago, TheKurgan said:

Just wish I could recreate This... but with the newer shading.

I had the waves, and the whitecaps perfect

I grew up right next to the ocean in Newfoundland, and at the time this SS was taken, I had it as realistic as possible... have not been able to re-create it in at least a year... maybe 2

Why do you have Scatterer removed from your Gamedata folder?

I do miss Scatterer looking that that too. The white caps really made a big difference 

[jefferyharrell]

31 minutes ago, sturmhauke said:

When I'm experimenting with weird stuff, or even just doing a challenge that requires specific mods, I create a separate install with a stripped-down mod list. Only my main sandbox install has all my mods. That way it keeps the load times down and reduces the chance of bugs from mod interactions.

Yeah, I'll usually do that too, but in this case it's kind of a pain. I need to be able to test my program against a variety of vehicles, which means having a bunch of parts mods installed, plus which I'm tuning it specifically to JNSQ so that adds to the load time. I've reached that unfortunate stage in the process where I really need to have my whole game up and running. Hence sliding just Scatterer out of the way to try to minimize crashes.

But hey, when I'm done I should have a pretty cool ascent guidance program.