[1.12.1] JNSQ [0.10.0] [23 Sept 2021]

[somnambulist]

1 hour ago, ForgiLaGeord said:

On Steam, you can right click the game, click properties, go to the betas tab, and select older versions of the game. Not sure what you can do if you've got the KSP store version.

Only certain versions are displayed on the store page, but you can access older versions by manually editing the URL. e.g., the URL to download KSP 1.7.2 is 

https://www.kerbalspaceprogram.com/lib/highwindsDwn.php?version=win64-zip-1-7-2

To download 1.7.1, change the version number at the end of the query to 1-7-1

https://www.kerbalspaceprogram.com/lib/highwindsDwn.php?version=win64-zip-1-7-1

 

[panarchist]

Ok, I've beaten my head against the wall enough on my own, so now I need to ask for help. :-)

With the stock system, I've gotten a lot of use out of Stevehead's "Harder Solar System", which rotated all the planetary orbits to simulate axial tilt on Kerbin. (this was prior to the same being implemented through Principia) I'm trying to write a new config file to do the same in JNSQ, but the orbital modifications don't seem to "take".  The format looks like this:

@Kopernicus:FINAL
{
	@Body[Moho]
	{
		@Orbit
		{
			%inclination = 26.611633
			%longitudeOfAscendingNode = 14.812594
			%argumentOfPeriapsis = 71.559554
		}
	}
}

and the original had a patch if OPM was installed that started off with "@Kopernicus:AFTER[OPM]".

Using "@Kopernicus:AFTER[JNSQ]" has no effect, and several variations of LAST, FINAL, FOR, and NEEDS have all proved fruitless, so either I suck worse than I
thought at crafting MM patches, or JNSQ is running after my patch and undoing the changes. Could someone with more knowledge than I let me know which is the
case, or point me in the right direction for determining patch order. I'm bringing it up here since it's dealing specifically with JNSQ's config, but if it's
more appropriate for me to tote it over to the MM thread, I can do that. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Edited June 28, 2019 by panarchist
Corrected missing bracket for clarity

[OhioBob]

@panarchist, you're missing a close bracket at the end.

[panarchist]

2 minutes ago, OhioBob said:

@panarchist, you're missing a close bracket at the end.

I only copied the first several lines to save space - the whole file has the entire stock system, and the missing close bracket.

[OhioBob]

2 minutes ago, panarchist said:

I only copied the first several lines to save space - the whole file has the entire stock system, and the missing close bracket.

I though maybe it was something like that, but I though I'd mention it.

I don't know why it's not working.  It's looks to me like it should.  I would problem do a couple things differently, namely AFTER[JNSQ] and @ instead of %.  But I don't think that should make a difference in whether or not it works.

[OhioBob]

@panarchist, I just took your patch exactly as written above and dumped it into my GameData folder and it worked for me.  So if it's not working for you there's something more wrong then what you've posted here.
 

Edited June 28, 2019 by OhioBob

[Jognt]

22 minutes ago, panarchist said:

I only copied the first several lines to save space - the whole file has the entire stock system, and the missing close bracket.

If you want to know whether your changes went through: Open up your modulemanager.configcache and do a search for "parentUrl = Kopernicus/Config/System" without the quotes of course. JNSQ adds its own nodes and removes the old ones during the FOR[JNSQ] pass so any changes done before that point will most likely not go through. For all the timings after that it should have worked fine though. Like Ohiobob mentioned

Edit:

Edited June 28, 2019 by Jognt

[jdub3350]

2 hours ago, ForgiLaGeord said:

On Steam, you can right click the game, click properties, go to the betas tab, and select older versions of the game. Not sure what you can do if you've got the KSP store version.

I unfortunately bought from the KSP store.  Thanks though.  

[panarchist]

25 minutes ago, OhioBob said:

@panarchist, I just took your patch exactly as written above and dumped it into my GameData folder and it worked for me.  So if it's not working for you there's something more wrong then what you've posted here.
 

Interesting. I *did* change the % to @ in the one I was using, but that shouldn't have any impact. I'll run it through again with the other mods stripped back out, and double-check my actual file for typos. Thanks!

25 minutes ago, Jognt said:

If you want to know whether your changes went through: Open up your modulemanager.configcache and do a search for "parentUrl = Kopernicus/Config/System" without the quotes of course. JNSQ adds its own nodes and removes the old ones during the FOR[JNSQ] pass so any changes done before that point will most likely not go through. For all the timings after that it should have worked fine though. Like Ohiobob mentioned

Edit:

Thanks, Jognt, that's very helpful - will check that out.

[Nnimrod]

What are you guys doing for contract packs?

 

Solar system replacers, contract modifiers, and tech trees kind of go together, and I guess there's strategia, but that's not really a contract pack is it? And whatever tech tree goes with this family really should play nicely with BDB...

[JadeOfMaar]

10 hours ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

Mods needed for ISRU?

Without giving any spoilers away, what are the minimum additional add-ons needed to make ISRU work for producing fuels? Is it just Community Resource Pack, or will other items be needed?

I'm only interested in producing fuels in-situ, like stock, but within Rational Resources and JNSQ constraints.

7 hours ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

and yes making sure said scanner is in the correct orbit, a stock scan yields no surface resources at all.

I'm not looking for 'easier,' though ScanSAT is a wonderful add-on for proper surface scanning. I could remove RR and revert to the stock ore configs, but I don't want that. I also want to keep add-ons down to a minimum.

I'm not sure how to tell you what ISRU mods you need without being spoiler. CRP (or Wild Blue Industries for its Classic Stock Resources) is required to define the resources. Then RR reorganizes them. RR is still very young and its ISRU chains are all unique following their own new and unique patterns, so compatibility between its resource arrangement and existing mods do get a bit of an added hiccup, and this is why RR includes its own WIP ISRU parts to try out and build from:

• Gaseous resources are abundant or given greater emphasis. If you choose to farm these you must follow the added intermediate step of chilling them into their liquid forms which are what are widely used by other mods.
• RR chokes out the production of LiquidFuel and kerosene-alike fuels (by consequence, not by design). Much emphasis is given to Nitro-based substances (Ammonia and MonoPropellant (equated to Hydrazine (N₂H₄)) and all roads lead to a Hydrogen economy with great presences of Hydrogen, Hydrates and Water.
• Emphasis is also given to Methane rocketry: the middleground between Kerolox's ranges of thrust (or rather, the ability to exceed that range) and Isp ranges between Kerolox and Hydrolox. This precisely invites the production and use of Methane ISRU and rocketry mods, and mods among these to take advantage of, and make more use of Eve (whether JNSQ's version or not). But this raises a question I've been holding onto for a while: Would it be viable IRL to produce cryo-fuels on Eve's surface? It's hot down there.

I'm aware of the "no resource problem." I recently fixed it but I bet I haven't released that fix as yet. Clone the repo and re-test please.

 

[JadeOfMaar]

30 minutes ago, Nnimrod said:

What are you guys doing for contract packs?

 

Solar system replacers, contract modifiers, and tech trees kind of go together, and I guess there's strategia, but that's not really a contract pack is it? And whatever tech tree goes with this family really should play nicely with BDB...

We're not doing anything for contract packs. Any effort in that department is being left to the players who want enough to have a compatible contract pack. Unlike GPP, however, JNSQ only re-imagines the stock planets, it doesn't replace them, so compatibility is easier than before. Strategia is a gameplay device and an alternative to the stock contract system itself. It's not a contract pack.

I've seen some debates concerning contract rewards and earning rates in general. I just happen to be working on something on the side that can help out with that.

What tech tree works with a planet pack? Is not a question that can be answered. A planet pack has no influence at all on how a tech tree fits well in a game.  Your choice of tech tree depends entirely on how you want progression to flow, and what part mods you want to progress with. That said, JNSQ is made for mods like BDB. Team Galileo has two very solid thumbs up from @CobaltWolf. As solid has his SRB models! (I'm sorry. That's terrible. Lol.)

[Jognt]

49 minutes ago, Nnimrod said:

What are you guys doing for contract packs?

Solar system replacers, contract modifiers, and tech trees kind of go together, and I guess there's strategia, but that's not really a contract pack is it? And whatever tech tree goes with this family really should play nicely with BDB...

There's config for Strategia in JNSQ that makes some minor (and appreciated) tweaks to the regular Strategia choices, but in general it's still Strategia as you know it. Contract wise: the usual suspects are available to choose from.

Now Tech Tree wise....
Take this one bit of advice from me: Only go for an unmanned-first tech tree if you really don't mind (or really like!) rough starts.

Eh? What's that Jeb? No you can't go out to play yet, I spent a fortune getting that command pod so you'll be using it to complete our commnet constellation until you die from it! What's that? No, I don't know where Valentina is. No, that's totally not a crashed pod in the ocean. You've been on the ground too long, it's getting to you Jeb.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Jognt

[Nnimrod]

27 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

We're not doing anything for contract packs. Any effort in that department is being left to the players who want enough to have a compatible contract pack. Unlike GPP, however, JNSQ only re-imagines the stock planets, it doesn't replace them, so compatibility is easier than before. Strategia is a gameplay device and an alternative to the stock contract system itself. It's not a contract pack.

I've seen some debates concerning contract rewards and earning rates in general. I just happen to be working on something on the side that can help out with that.

What tech tree works with a planet pack? Is not a question that can be answered. A planet pack has no influence at all on how a tech tree fits well in a game.  Your choice of tech tree depends entirely on how you want progression to flow, and what part mods you want to progress with. That said, JNSQ is made for mods like BDB. Team Galileo has two very solid thumbs up from @CobaltWolf. As solid has his SRB models! (I'm sorry. That's terrible. Lol.)

 

18 minutes ago, Jognt said:

There's config for Strategia in JNSQ that makes some minor (and appreciated) tweaks to the regular Strategia choices, but in general it's still Strategia as you know it. Contract wise: the usual suspects are available to choose from.

Now Tech Tree wise....
Take this one bit of advice from me: Only go for an unmanned-first tech tree if you really don't mind (or really like!) rough starts.

Eh? What's that Jeb? No you can't go out to play yet, I spent a fortune getting that command pod so you'll be using it to complete our commnet constellation until you die from it! What's that? No, I don't know where Valentina is. No, that's totally not a crashed pod in the ocean. You've been on the ground too long, it's getting to you Jeb.

Apologies, when I said "What are you guys doing for contract packs" I meant people playing JNSQ, not the team. I was just wondering what people have been using, not expecting you to do anything. Didn't realize it sounded that way.

I actually just got Strategia and it looks like I may not even need a contract pack any more. It looks pretty awesome.

And re. tech trees - No, they aren't directly related to solar system replacers or planet packs, but they are related to what contracts you use, and contracts are related to planets. I mean it would be no good to start with a contract replacer that gives you only plane contracts designed for kerbin, a solar system that replaces kerbin, and a tech tree that doesn't give you plane parts right away (Like stock).

[Jognt]

58 minutes ago, Nnimrod said:

Apologies, when I said "What are you guys doing for contract packs" I meant people playing JNSQ, not the team. I was just wondering what people have been using, not expecting you to do anything. Didn't realize it sounded that way.

I actually just got Strategia and it looks like I may not even need a contract pack any more. It looks pretty awesome.

And re. tech trees - No, they aren't directly related to solar system replacers or planet packs, but they are related to what contracts you use, and contracts are related to planets. I mean it would be no good to start with a contract replacer that gives you only plane contracts designed for kerbin, a solar system that replaces kerbin, and a tech tree that doesn't give you plane parts right away (Like stock).

The three tech trees I've read the most about are Probes Before Crew, Unkerballed Start, and Simplex. I'm running Probes Before Crew (and boy does that add difficulty when you need control to send up your satellites that are there to give.. control)
I wouldn't worry too much about contracts/tech tree integration/etc. Kerbin is still Kerbin, Mun is still Mun. If a parts mod has contracts, they'll work regardless of whether you're on JNSQ or stock kerbin.¹

¹ Terms and Conditions may apply.

Edited June 29, 2019 by Jognt

[kerbnub]

13 hours ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

Not on stock worlds normally. But my understanding is that JNSQ requires Rational Resources and one of either CRP or something else to enable mineable resources to begin with. Just cheating a stock resource scanner into orbits or various worlds, and yes making sure said scanner is in the correct orbit, a stock scan yields no surface resources at all.

I'm not looking for 'easier,' though ScanSAT is a wonderful add-on for proper surface scanning. I could remove RR and revert to the stock ore configs, but I don't want that. I also want to keep add-ons down to a minimum.

Not sure if this was a SCANSAT issue only, but Rational Resources had a problem where SCANSAT wouldn't show any resources, but this was fixed in the latest update (a version after the one bundled in JNSQ). Installing the latest RR from github fixed it for me.

[Norcalplanner]

4 hours ago, Nnimrod said:

 

Apologies, when I said "What are you guys doing for contract packs" I meant people playing JNSQ, not the team. I was just wondering what people have been using, not expecting you to do anything. Didn't realize it sounded that way.

I actually just got Strategia and it looks like I may not even need a contract pack any more. It looks pretty awesome.

And re. tech trees - No, they aren't directly related to solar system replacers or planet packs, but they are related to what contracts you use, and contracts are related to planets. I mean it would be no good to start with a contract replacer that gives you only plane contracts designed for kerbin, a solar system that replaces kerbin, and a tech tree that doesn't give you plane parts right away (Like stock).

I'm a fan of Career Evolution as a career contract pack.  It does a lot of things similar to SETI, but a bit better IMHO.  There is one little fix you have to do to prevent nullrefs for not having an agent, the same as other older contract packs, courtesy of Tonka Crash.

You can use Career Evolution with either a probes-first tech tree such as Unkerballed Start or Simplex.  Or, since you mentioned BDB, you can simply use the standard CTT (which is what I do), as BDB provides some probe cores (such as Explorer I) in the first node.

 

And yes, I'm also running Strategia.  With some of the strategies available, launch costs can be brought down quite a bit.

[StarStreak2109]

13 hours ago, ForgiLaGeord said:

On Steam, you can right click the game, click properties, go to the betas tab, and select older versions of the game. Not sure what you can do if you've got the KSP store version.

I do not know why, but @SQUAD, in their infinite wisdom, chose to not leave version 1.7.1 available for download this time... So the only way to acquire that particular version is if you have by any chance bought the game via Steam. If you only have a KSP Store version, you're out of luck, unfortunately...

[Gordon Fecyk]

10 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

CRP (or Wild Blue Industries for its Classic Stock Resources) is required to define the resources

Wild Blue was the other one I kept forgetting. Thanks!

[panarchist]

@OhioBob and @Jognt - Thanks for the help. It wasn't my MM skills, it's a mod conflict. Not sure yet if it's Kerbal Konstructs, Kerbalism, or Kerbal Construction Time, or a combination of them, but now I have seasons in JNSQ:

Kerbin nights at 1/4 scale are going to be REALLY long in winter now, I'd imagine.

If anyone here wants a 23 degree tilt to everything, here you go:
https://github.com/panarchist/Toast/releases

Now that there's city lights in JNSQ (Thanks, guys!), I'm going to try to put some Kerbal Konstructs airports together so I have somewhere to fly.

EDIT: It's definitely Kerbalism conflicting with either JNSQ or one of my other mods, and THIS Kopernicus patch I've been working on - no idea why, but if both are installed, it CTDs the game every time when entering Tracking Station view. So if you download it from my Github, please don't use it with Kerbalism without ensuring saves and instance are backed up.

EDIT 2: It's definitely an interaction between Kerbalism and other mods, not Kerbalism itself. JNSQ+Kerbalism+Toast works fine (along with EVE, Scatterer, DOE, and Kerbal Konstructs and Restock/Restock+). If you pile 63 mods on top of it, you get a CTD. So just ignore what I said earlier, and if you want a "simple" axial tilt, then this works.

Edited June 30, 2019 by panarchist
Add info

[CoriW]

22 hours ago, panarchist said:

@OhioBob and @Jognt - Thanks for the help. It wasn't my MM skills, it's a mod conflict. Not sure yet if it's Kerbal Konstructs, Kerbalism, or Kerbal Construction Time, or a combination of them, but now I have seasons in JNSQ:

Kerbin nights at 1/4 scale are going to be REALLY long in winter now, I'd imagine.

If anyone here wants a 23 degree tilt to everything, here you go:
https://github.com/panarchist/Toast/releases

Now that there's city lights in JNSQ (Thanks, guys!), I'm going to try to put some Kerbal Konstructs airports together so I have somewhere to fly.

EDIT: It's definitely Kerbalism conflicting with either JNSQ or one of my other mods, and THIS Kopernicus patch I've been working on - no idea why, but if both are installed, it CTDs the game every time when entering Tracking Station view. So if you download it from my Github, please don't use it with Kerbalism without ensuring saves and instance are backed up.

EDIT 2: It's definitely an interaction between Kerbalism and other mods, not Kerbalism itself. JNSQ+Kerbalism+Toast works fine (along with EVE, Scatterer, DOE, and Kerbal Konstructs and Restock/Restock+). If you pile 63 mods on top of it, you get a CTD. So just ignore what I said earlier, and if you want a "simple" axial tilt, then this works.

Thanks, I've never tried RSS or anything with the axial tilt so this'll be nice to spice things up a bit!

P.S ~ I have Kerbalism along with 163 other mods and do not have the CTD.

[panarchist]

9 minutes ago, CoriW said:

Thanks, I've never tried RSS or anything with the axial tilt so this'll be nice to spice things up a bit!

P.S ~ I have Kerbalism along with 163 other mods and do not have the CTD.

Yeah, I think it's unique to my setup. I'll comb through the logs next time I get a chance. In any case, it's not due to JNSQ.

[jefferyharrell]

@panarchist Any chance one of those mods you're running is Research Bodies? When JNSQ first came out I tried starting a game with that mod and eventually (I can't remember what I had to do in the game to trigger it) I started getting hard crashes whenever I went to the tracking station scene.

[panarchist]

1 hour ago, jefferyharrell said:

@panarchist Any chance one of those mods you're running is Research Bodies? When JNSQ first came out I tried starting a game with that mod and eventually (I can't remember what I had to do in the game to trigger it) I started getting hard crashes whenever I went to the tracking station scene.

No, but one of them is Textures Unlimited, so I can't rule out that dx11 and the TU shaders might not be what's interacting with Kerbalism, JNSQ/Kopernicus, and PSA Toast.

[jdub3350]

On 6/28/2019 at 4:42 PM, somnambulist said:

Only certain versions are displayed on the store page, but you can access older versions by manually editing the URL. e.g., the URL to download KSP 1.7.2 is 

https://www.kerbalspaceprogram.com/lib/highwindsDwn.php?version=win64-zip-1-7-2

To download 1.7.1, change the version number at the end of the query to 1-7-1

https://www.kerbalspaceprogram.com/lib/highwindsDwn.php?version=win64-zip-1-7-1

 

I would have never even thought of this! Thanks so much.