Kerbal Space Program 1.7.3 is live!

[m4ti140]

Wow this is massive. I started working on a mini mod to make the rotor parts more appropriate for helicopter usage, you guys have just added most of what I was doing into the game now. This is all us prop/helicopter builders have dreamed of. Guess we'll spend another few months without leaving Kerbin

[StrandedonEarth]

39 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

I didn't even know they still had the Patcher. I use Steam so don't need to bother but IIRC the SOP for upgrading KSP purchased from the store is to download the entire game every single time, because the Patcher hasn't worked since... well ever I think.

Well, I use the Store, and alongside the full version there is a patch to download and apply which updates to the latest version (need the right patch for the version you currently have), which you have to steer it to the KSP directory. That's all I use for minor updates like this. But it looks like one has to download the entire BG package to update BG; no patch for that.

But the Launcher/Patcher? Yeah, I ignore that, and just patch and launch the game directly.

[Superfluous J]

35 minutes ago, Daniel Prates said:

This actually happens in RL piston engines. Unless they are counter-rotating, they will pull the plane to one side because of the engine's torque. Single engine planes too, but it will be more noticeable on multiengine setups. Hmmm... I wonder if the game is correctly depicting the torque effect of rotating shaft engines or if it is some other phenomenon of ksp physics.

It's correctly modeling it.

Put a rotor between 2 parts in space and start it turning slowly. Both parts will turn. KSP does not hold the root part still or anything.

If the root part is a huge space station and the thing turning is a small arm with a few solar panels on it you won't notice the station rotating a tiny amount, but it sill does it.

[qzgy]

6 hours ago, The Aziz said:

Thank you for that. I've been killing the exe through task manager for Kraken knows how long because quitting the game in a conventional way was taking waaay too much time after long session.

Task manager? Seems like too much work. I just use alt-f4.

[MechBFP]

Anyone know how to correct for the roll problem for a single prop aircraft without resorting to setting the trim every time?

[StrandedonEarth]

37 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

Anyone know how to correct for the roll problem for a single prop aircraft without resorting to setting the trim every time?

IIRC real single-prop planes have the engine slightly offset/twisted somewhat somehow to counter this. As well as pilots hitting the rudder to counter torque when going to full power for takeoff. Again, IIRC. Worth playing around with, I suppose. But nothing will be perfect.

[qzgy]

47 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

Anyone know how to correct for the roll problem for a single prop aircraft without resorting to setting the trim every time?

Could also stick ina  bunch of SAS wheels.

Or design some asymmetry in your craft to compensate for the torque like how StrandedonEarth mentioned or adding some wing on one side or drag on another.

[Kerbart]

1 hour ago, 5thHorseman said:

If the root part is a huge space station and the thing turning is a small arm with a few solar panels on it you won't notice the station rotating a tiny amount, but it sill does it.

Only when you start/stop the rotation. Once it’s rotating at a constant speed it’s fine.

4 minutes ago, qzgy said:

Or design some asymmetry in your craft to compensate for the torque like how StrandedonEarth mentioned or adding some wing on one side or drag on another.

With model aircraft they point the axis of the propeller  slightly sideways.

Edited July 12, 2019 by Kerbart

[The Destroyer]

Is anyone else having issues with the helicopter blades? In order to make them lift I have to use them "inverted", which visually looks wrong, I've tried rotating it many times in VAB but haven't had any success. The "authority limiter" which should be a brilliant way to manage collective, via changing the angle of the blade, *visually* does something but has absolutely zero effect on the actual thrust. I am using mods, but I don't believe any would have this sort of effect.

 

Have also been having some issues with bi or quadcopters, often one side apparently picks up lift before the other, flipping the vessel quickly over, despite being mirror'd.

Edited July 12, 2019 by The Destroyer

[The Aziz]

2 hours ago, qzgy said:

Task manager? Seems like too much work. I just use alt-f4.

Although faster, that was still taking a while. 

Also I didn't mean the "end task" (cuz it was working exactly like altf4'ing), I meant directly closing the process. Five clicks.

[Daniel Prates]

2 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

It's correctly modeling it.

Put a rotor between 2 parts in space and start it turning slowly. Both parts will turn. KSP does not hold the root part still or anything.

If the root part is a huge space station and the thing turning is a small arm with a few solar panels on it you won't notice the station rotating a tiny amount, but it sill does it.

A+ for KSP!

[I_Killed_Jeb]

Quote

* Add ability to switch secondary docking ports (docked) to primary via the PAW.
* Add advanced tweakable to docking ports that allows the user to set the attraction force percentage as they are docking.
* Convert same vessel docking connections to real docked connections whenever the vessel undocks or decouples elsewhere on the vessel.
* Remove from symmetry functionality added to all parts.
* Add capability for text entry on float fields in the Part Action Window.

This is amazing.

[JERONIMO]

Finally, good thing i'm past my sleep time... by 4 hours.

anyhow, great job for the ksp. I will build this thingy things all around Laythe called dragonflied.

[Klapaucius]

Has anyone else noticed issues with power consumption in the new update? My frog and another rover, which worked fine before now suck down power like there is no tomorrow. The fuel cells cannot at all keep up whereas previously, both had reasonable range. My frog makes 3 jumps and then collapses. My Kant rover dies after about 30 seconds.

[JERONIMO]

7 minutes ago, Klapaucius said:

Has anyone else noticed issues with power consumption in the new update? My frog and another rover, which worked fine before now suck down power like there is no tomorrow. The fuel cells cannot at all keep up whereas previously, both had reasonable range. My frog makes 3 jumps and then collapses. My Kant rover dies after about 30 seconds.

if it's a bug try to report it to the bug-tracker.

[Superfluous J]

3 hours ago, Kerbart said:

Only when you start/stop the rotation. Once it’s rotating at a constant speed it’s fine.

If you have SAS on

[Starwaster]

12 hours ago, flyfire2002 said:

Wonderful update! Could you please explain what the following changes are? Thanks!

* Convert same vessel docking connections to real docked connections whenever the vessel undocks or decouples elsewhere on the vessel.
* Remove from symmetry functionality added to all parts.

It means you can make a functional Kanadarm2 now.

[Klapaucius]

52 minutes ago, JERONIMO said:

if it's a bug try to report it to the bug-tracker.

I realize that, but I want to see if it is more widespread first before doing so.

[KerikBalm]

1 hour ago, Klapaucius said:

Has anyone else noticed issues with power consumption in the new update? My frog and another rover, which worked fine before now suck down power like there is no tomorrow. The fuel cells cannot at all keep up whereas previously, both had reasonable range. My frog makes 3 jumps and then collapses. My Kant rover dies after about 30 seconds.

Indeed, my old heavy lift quad titlt rotor is faster and more powerful now (but threatens RUD at higher throttles), but with 4 heavy rotors (supposedly 16 EC/s each) and 4 fuel cells (18 EC/sec each), it should produce a surplus of power (it also has many solar panels, and a large battery reserve).

It exhausts its power very quickly.

I also noticed the new turboshaft engines have very high fuel consumption at 100% throttle. My first design with them (after minor tweaks to prop pitch settings and mappings) got over 200 m/s, but I noticed that it hit the RPM cap at low throttle settings, and increasing throttle past that just drained fuel fast.

Something is wonky.

[KerikBalm]

So according to the part window, the turboshaft motor should drain 0.2 LF/fuel max, my inline twin should thereform drain 0.4 LF/sec max (which is already quite high), instead, its draining 0.75/sec.

Something is not right withthe fuel/power consumption of these new rotors.

Replacing the two turboshafts with a panther and thrust reversed wheesely more than halved my static fuel consumption, and dramatically reduced my cruising fuel consumption at max power ( 0.13/sec vs 0.75/sec... even worse at high speed of 0.05 LF/sec at 600 m/s)... while of course delivering much better speed, with thrust EC generation from an alternator.

Even if the consumption displax was accurate, I think these new parts consume too much LF to compete with the turbofans.

And the EC consumption is just killing solar+battery powered rechargeable designs

Edited July 12, 2019 by KerikBalm

[Noir]

10 hours ago, Boyster said:

-Motors not having any sound-

Same, no sound at all.

2 hours ago, Klapaucius said:

-Motors/robotics using to much power-

Same here.

16 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

-Motors using to much fuel-

Also same.

Really enjoying this update...

 

Edit: Also, since the new motors don't appear in the stage list, you have to rely on the resource tab to keep track of your fuel, which isn't always great. Would be nice if all the robotics parts had a toggle-able opinion to display fuel/electricity in the stage list, similar to how the decouplers and fairings work.

 

Edited July 12, 2019 by Noir
:(

[KerikBalm]

Looked in the files, there is a "reference consumption velocity" and for the large rotor, its set at 230... I think this is 230 RPM. Thus if spinning at 460, then it seems the velocity is 2x what the "reference" is, perhaps that is why they consume 2x as much as they did before.

On the other hand, my old quad tilt rotor design does perform better in some aspects. I replaced its blades (servo+strut+wing segment, 3 parts each, 6 parts per rotor) with 2x medium helo blades each (4 parts per rotor), and reduced the engine size of each rotor to 50%, it still used a bit more fuel than before, but it lifted more and flew faster.

I think changing the reference velocity to 460 instead of 230 will do what needs to be done. Maybe increase the efficiency value (its at 0.75 for the heavy rotor).

As for the LF engines, to compere with turbofans, its base fuel consumption needs to be halved, at least (combined with the change of reference velocity to 460)

[JERONIMO]

3 minutes ago, Noir said:

Same, no sound at all.

Same here.

Also same.

Really enjoying this update...

you know, i'm actually happy that they don't make sound, because i finally can build a stealth-plane on rotors. More silent then water, lower then grass (Тише воды - ниже травы)

[Acvila]

just decrease motor size, my plane consumption is 0.03. decrease motor size in editor and don't increase torque if rotor is spinning at full velocity

[KerikBalm]

It seems they also changed something so that you can't do regenerative breaking, and excess power is dumped (which is why I need to monitor rotor RPM, any more throttle than needed to maintain RPM just wastes energy)

looking at the .cfg here:

Quote

        traverseVelocityLimits = 0, 460
        rpmLimit = 460        
        motorizedMassPerKN = 0.004
        motorizedCostPerDriveUnit = 4
        brakeTorque = 1200
        rotorSpoolTime = 150
        efficiency = 0.75
        baseResourceConsumptionRate = 0.03
        referenceConsumptionVelocity = 230
        // if RESOURCE is used, negative power is simply dumped
        RESOURCE
        {
            name = ElectricCharge
            rate = 1
        }
        // INPUT_RESOURCE is by default equivalent to RESOURCE
        //INPUT_RESOURCE
        //{
        //    name = ElectricCharge
        //    rate = 1
        //}
        //OUTPUT_RESOURCE is required to reclaim energy from negative power
        //OUTPUT_RESOURCE
        //{
        //    name = ElectricCharge
        //    rate = 1
        //}

They rid of an input/output system that can reclaim energy, and have one where excess/negative power is dumped.

For me, this is a big BOOOO

You can't deploy a rotor as a windmill now, for example when landing a rapier powered jet that is nearly out of EC