How to remotely control a lander.

[Space boy]

I am looking to create a lander for duna which has bob and bill in it and jeb will be orbiting duna.

Now I know that maneuver nodes can only be created when there is a communication with kerbin, but how do I create maneuver nodes with jeb remotely controlling the lander.

What do I have to do in order to be able to make maneuver nodes without a pilot? The concept of antennas and relay dishes confuses me. 

[VoidSquid]

1 hour ago, Space boy said:

Now I know that maneuver nodes can only be created when there is a communication with kerbin

...or having a pilot in the vessel.

1 hour ago, Space boy said:

What do I have to do in order to be able to make maneuver nodes without a pilot?

You need a probe core for that, plus connection to Kerbin.

Or: have it controlled by a pilot from another vessel.

1 hour ago, Space boy said:

The concept of antennas and relay dishes confuses me. 

In general there are two different types of antennas, direct (e.g. the Communotron DTS-M1) and relay (e.g. RA-15 Relay Antenna), the latter ones can relay a signal, the former can not.

So, let's assume you have a vessel with just a Communotron 16 antenna in orbit of Duna. That antenna, even if you have the most powerful ground station at the KSC, is simply too weak for a direct communication. Now add a RA-100 Relay antenna in Duna orbit to that picture: the little Communotron 16 is powerful enough to connect to the close by RA-100 Relay antenna, which in turn is powerful enough to connect to the KSC: voila, you have communication, provided the Communotron 16 has line-of-sight to the RA-100, and the RA-100 has line-of-sight to the KSC  

Of course, this is just a simplified picture, but you get the idea behind direct antennas and relays.

I followed this guide here, works perfect, might even be a bit overkill:

https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Tutorial:Setting_up_a_CommNet_system

 

Here's an excellent video explaining the whole CommNet concept, including how to remotely control another vessel with a pilot:

 

If you really want to dive into this topic, you can check out this post

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by VoidSquid

[Space boy]

13 minutes ago, VoidSquid said:

...or having a pilot in the vessel.

You need a probe core for that, plus connection to Kerbin.

In general there are two different types of antennas, direct (e.g. the Communotron DTS-M1) and relay (e.g. RA-15 Relay Antenna), the latter ones can relay a signal, the former can not.

So, let's assume you have a vessel with just a Communotron 16 antenna in orbit of Duna. That antenna, even if you have the most powerful ground station at the KSC, is simply too weak for a direct communication. Now add a RA-100 Relay antenna in Duna orbit to that picture: the little Communotron 16 is powerful enough to connect to the close by RA-100 Relay antenna, which in turn is powerful enough to connect to the KSC: voila, you have communication, provided the Communotron 16 has line-of-sight to the RA-100, and the RA-100 has line-of-sight to the KSC  

Of course, this is just a simplified picture, but you get the idea behind direct antennas and relays.

I followed this guide here, works perfect, might even be a bit overkill:

https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Tutorial:Setting_up_a_CommNet_system

 

If you really want to dive into this topic, you can check out this post

 

So to make maneuver nodes without a pilot, do I need to have a probe core and connection to kerbin or just either one of them?

If I have a strong enough antenna on my lander, like the communotron DTS-M1 I dont need the relay dish, Right?

[VoidSquid]

2 minutes ago, Space boy said:

So to make maneuver nodes without a pilot, do I need to have a probe core and connection to kerbin or just either one of them?

Check out the video I linked in my post  

[Xd the great]

4 minutes ago, Space boy said:

So to make maneuver nodes without a pilot, do I need to have a probe core and connection to kerbin or just either one of them?

If I have a strong enough antenna on my lander, like the communotron DTS-M1 I dont need the relay dish, Right?

You need both probe core and connection.

Yep, but the lander cannot function as a relay.

[Space boy]

Wait, so I watched the video, why do you need two kerbals to remotely control one rover?

Do the tricks in this video also work for controlling manned ships? He says that we need a relay antenna on the main mothership, why a relay antenna and not a normal antenna to control another probe??

[VoidSquid]

43 minutes ago, Space boy said:

Wait, so I watched the video, why do you need two kerbals to remotely control one rover?

As per my understanding: one pilot controls the vessel, the other does remotely controlling the rover.

EDIT: as per the video, an alternative would be to have just one pilot, but an additional probe core, if I'm not mistaken.

43 minutes ago, Space boy said:

Do the tricks in this video also work for controlling manned ships?

If you don't have a pilot in said vessel, yes (ofc you'll need a probe core on the controlled vessel then).

Question is, do you want to control the vessel via a pilot who's aboard another vessel? Then you need two pilots aboard the controlling vessel (one is flying the vessel, the other does the remote control), plus a relay antenna, but no comms to the KSC are required.

Or do you want to control it remotely from the KSC? Then you need just comms to the KSC (read: relay network).

43 minutes ago, Space boy said:

why a relay antenna and not a normal antenna to control another probe?

I've no idea, doesn't make sense to me either, it's just the way it is.

Edited October 29, 2019 by VoidSquid

[Xd the great]

24 minutes ago, Space boy said:

why a relay antenna and not a normal antenna to control another probe??

So it looks nicer?

[Linkageless]

51 minutes ago, Space boy said:

He says that we need a relay antenna on the main mothership, why a relay antenna and not a normal antenna to control another probe??

The relay antenna is for communication with KSC, which is the place from which you remotely control the probe core. The presence of Jeb on this mothership/relay is regrettably irrelevant and doesn't help you.

Perhaps there is a mod for the sort of pilot based remote control you're imagining.

[VoidSquid]

Regarding relay network, this is from a satellite orbiting Dres, communicating with the KSC via a chain of ten relay satellites.

Edited October 29, 2019 by VoidSquid

[Space boy]

48 minutes ago, VoidSquid said:

 

Question is, do you want to control the vessel via a pilot who's aboard another vessel? Then you need two pilots aboard the controlling vessel (one is flying the vessel, the other does the remote control), plus a relay antenna, but no comms to the KSC are required.

Or do you want to control it remotely from the KSC? Then you need just comms to the KSC (read: relay network).

 

I actually dont know which way I want to do it, which way do you recommend?? I want a way which is the easiest to rendezvous and dock.

Whats the job of the remote guidance units??

Edited October 29, 2019 by Space boy

[VoidSquid]

9 minutes ago, Space boy said:

I actually dont know which way I want to do it, which way do you recommend?

Well, I'm the lazy type of guy  

I did setup my relay network as per that tutorial article mentioned, takes some work/time, yes, but once that's done, I never have to care about this controlling thingy, all and every vessel even halfway close to any CB always has CommNet contact to the KSC, as an example see the screenshot I just posted.

9 minutes ago, Space boy said:

Whats the job of the remote guidance units??

It's just a probe core. And as a probe core it can act as a pilot, that's your second pilot then in regards to remote controlling a vessel from another vessel.

Edited October 29, 2019 by VoidSquid

[Space boy]

2 minutes ago, VoidSquid said:

Well, I'm the lazy type of guy  

I did setup my relay network as per that tutorial article mentioned, takes some work/time, yes, but once that's done, I never have to care about this controlling thingy, all and every vessel even halfway close to any CB always has CommNet contact to the KSC, as an example see the screenshot I just posted.

It's just a probe core. And as a probe core it can act as a pilot, that's your second pilot then in regards to remote controlling a vessel from another vessel.

Is there a way in which a pilot can remotely give SAS control to another ship? I know it sounds way to ridiculous but, just in case.

[VoidSquid]

Not that I know of, SAS has to be provided by the remote probe core, said pilot is just the one controlling it.

[Space boy]

Ok, so basically, to sum it all up, I have to add a relay antenna on my mothership and a smaller antenna on my lander and I will be able to make maneuver nodes freely. Correct???

[VoidSquid]

Just now, Space boy said:

Ok, so basically, to sum it all up, I have to add a relay antenna on my mothership and a smaller antenna on my lander and I will be able to make maneuver nodes freely. Correct???

That's my understanding, yes.

And if the video is still correct, you'll either need a second pilot, or an additional probe core (RC-001S Remote Guidance Unit or RC-L01 Remote Guidance Unit) able to do the remote control.

[Space boy]

3 minutes ago, VoidSquid said:

That's my understanding, yes.

And if the video is still correct, you'll either need a second pilot, or an additional probe core (RC-001S Remote Guidance Unit or RC-L01 Remote Guidance Unit) able to do the remote control.

Alright, thanks!

Just now, Linkageless said:

Correct, as long as the probe has line of sight to the relay, and the relay has line of sight to a Kerbin ground station or another relay that does have line of sight.

I'm assuming you've upgraded your tracking station a bit, but Duna should not be too much trouble with the larger relay antennas.

Ok thanks

[Linkageless]

Correct, as long as the probe has line of sight to the relay, and the relay has line of sight to a Kerbin ground station or another relay that does have line of sight.

I'm assuming you've upgraded your tracking station a bit, but Duna should not be too much trouble with the larger relay antennas.

[VoidSquid]

1 minute ago, Linkageless said:

as long as the probe has line of sight to the relay, and the relay has line of sight to a Kerbin ground station

As per my understanding, @Space boy wants to control the lander/rover from another vessel, not from the KSC.

Edited October 29, 2019 by VoidSquid

[Space boy]

I think I finally get it. Though, is there a way to close a thread after you have gotten the answer?

[Linkageless]

* I should add, I forget at what level tracking station and if you need anything above basic SAS on the probe core. The small Remote Guidance Unit is a good choice if you have the tech.

This is all assuming you want to control from KSC.

[Space boy]

Just now, Linkageless said:

* I should add, I forget at what level tracking station and if you need anything above basic SAS on the probe core. The small Remote Guidance Unit is a good choice if you have the tech.

This is all assuming you want to control from KSC.

I've upgraded my tracking station to max and i am just short of science to get my hands on one of those nice remote guidance units.

[VoidSquid]

5 minutes ago, Space boy said:

Though, is there a way to close a thread after you have gotten the answer?

Yes, contact a moderator.

[Space boy]

Oh and one last question, is the communotron DTS-M1 enough to have a connection to kerbin?

Edited October 29, 2019 by Space boy

[VoidSquid]

Checked the link I gave earlier, this one?

That thread links to this Google sheet:

https://goo.gl/Wn03VL

Long story short, with Tracking Station Lvl 3 and that antenna, you get

So, depending how far Duna is from Kerbin, it should work most of the time, line-of-sight provided.

 

Let me know if there's anything else I can help you with  

Edited October 29, 2019 by VoidSquid