[20.x]BobCat Ind. Release

[aggressorblue]

Rebalanced version of the Mk4 and DROP released on Kerbal.net. Should launch and fly straight now.

Sorry for the error.

Thanks for the update, but unless I'm doing something wrong, parts still appear unbalanced:

Test flights were conducted with the rocket pictured (that mechanical decoupler never caused problems before)

This rocket now curves slightly toward the bottom (landing gear side) of the rocket. Nothing major, and Mech-Jeb can easily compensate. This is using the basic MK 4 with ion and bat/generator box. With a larger, orbital capable rocket, I don't imagine this being an issue, as the Center of Mass will start to average out as the side of the vessel increases. This behavior is new since the update,

[ATTACH=CONFIG]34878[/ATTACH]

The next craft, has one 'chute mounted in the highest slot. It curves sharply toward the top (non landing gear side) of the drop pod. MechJeb will most likely require thrust vectoring and fins to counter this.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]34879[/ATTACH]

Finally, With three chutes attached, the craft is difficult, if impossible, to keep flying straight with this setup.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]34880[/ATTACH]

Please don't take any of this as complaining by the way. I can make do with the current Mk 4. I just wanted to add my findings to the conversation, and see if this helps you guys with bug hunting

[CrashnBurn]

Thanks for the update, but unless I'm doing something wrong, parts still appear unbalanced:

Test flights were conducted with the rocket pictured (that mechanical decoupler never caused problems before)

This rocket now curves slightly toward the bottom (landing gear side) of the rocket. Nothing major, and Mech-Jeb can easily compensate. This is using the basic MK 4 with ion and bat/generator box. With a larger, orbital capable rocket, I don't imagine this being an issue, as the Center of Mass will start to average out as the side of the vessel increases. This behavior is new since the update,

[ATTACH=CONFIG]34878[/ATTACH]

The next craft, has one 'chute mounted in the highest slot. It curves sharply toward the top (non landing gear side) of the drop pod. MechJeb will most likely require thrust vectoring and fins to counter this.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]34879[/ATTACH]

Finally, With three chutes attached, the craft is difficult, if impossible, to keep flying straight with this setup.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]34880[/ATTACH]

Please don't take any of this as complaining by the way. I can make do with the current Mk 4. I just wanted to add my findings to the conversation, and see if this helps you guys with bug hunting

Yeah, because the DROP and Mk4 launch vertically and land horizontally AND have so many options, it's really up to you to balance the launch. I can launch with the Liquid fuel cargo and engine Mk4 options in a DROP with no SAS or RCS or mechjeb engaged and the launch is just about perfectly vertical. But as you adjust the load out you will also have to adjust your balance.

It's the price you pay for so many different optional parts.

The Mk4 release is a bit of a complicated mod, it requires somewhat more advanced building and flying skills than the stock parts. There's nothing too difficult about it, it just requires more attention to balance on both axes.

[skroid101]

my Ion engines dont work generator appears to give out no energy and engines no thrust whatsoever please help!

[THX-1138]

check the max persistent debris option in the settings menu and increase the value of it

Hello haydn1997,

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I had the "persistent debris" = 0 so now I have increased it and will try again.

[aggressorblue]

Yeah, because the DROP and Mk4 launch vertically and land horizontally AND have so many options, it's really up to you to balance the launch. I can launch with the Liquid fuel cargo and engine Mk4 options in a DROP with no SAS or RCS or mechjeb engaged and the launch is just about perfectly vertical. But as you adjust the load out you will also have to adjust your balance.

It's the price you pay for so many different optional parts.

The Mk4 release is a bit of a complicated mod, it requires somewhat more advanced building and flying skills than the stock parts. There's nothing too difficult about it, it just requires more attention to balance on both axes.

Fair enough. Thanks for the info

[CrashnBurn]

my Ion engines dont work generator appears to give out no energy and engines no thrust whatsoever please help!

From the included Field Manual FAQ:

Q: How do I turn on the generator?

A: Right click on the energy cargo pod and click activate.

[CrashnBurn]

Hello haydn1997,

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I had the "persistent debris" = 0 so now I have increased it and will try again.

THX-1138, the problem is that the Mk1 is not a command pod part and thus is considered debris when it is disconnected from the main craft. You could add mechjeb to it if you wish.

[rhn94]

are there any craft files for this?

[The Destroyer]

Page 20 http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/20286-PLUGIN-PART-0-17-BobCat-Ind-Release-DEMV/page20?p=298270#post298270

[SuitSat]

My first post, just wanted to say thanks for these great mods. They really make exploring the Kerbol System exciting.

I've had a few issues and thought I'd post them here for the creators, if they are interested.

• I have one craft that uses 2 unmanned RATs piloted by a MK1-2 command pod(no DROPs, I'll get to that later). From the very beginning of the flight (ie, on the launchpad) I have no images of my Kerbals, no logos in the lower right. Once I have landed, decoupled my RATs, and distributed my Kerbals, the problem persists.

• In the Vehicle Assembly Building I find that while the DROP will latch onto just about anything using the bottom 3 attach points, the two at either end are finicky, to the point that I simply can't use them as often as I'd like. No amount of rotating, flipping or adjusting seems to help. It could be me, but the problem seems more persistent when using unmanned RATs.

• Finally, my RATs often lose control; ie no thrust, steering, motor, etc. I can fix this by going back to the space center and re-selecting the flight. I just thought you should know.

Like I said, I love these rovers, and the DROP pod is a blessing, when I can use it.

Keep up the good work, and let me know if you'd like more info on any of these bugs.

[Geronimo]

When I applied the 2nd version of DEMV 4, it seems that MechJeb is now a bit funky. For example, SMARTAss doesn't do anything when you click on it. Some items do come up and can be used (Ascent module), but others don't. Has anyone else seen this?

[Jesrad]

my Ion engines dont work generator appears to give out no energy and engines no thrust whatsoever please help!

When that happens to me usually it means the generator or panel are from a different electric power plugin than the engine, making them incompatible.

[Khiro]

When I applied the 2nd version of DEMV 4, it seems that MechJeb is now a bit funky. For example, SMARTAss doesn't do anything when you click on it. Some items do come up and can be used (Ascent module), but others don't. Has anyone else seen this?

Yes, I am experiencing exactly the same thing at this time.

[CrashnBurn]

When I applied the 2nd version of DEMV 4, it seems that MechJeb is now a bit funky. For example, SMARTAss doesn't do anything when you click on it. Some items do come up and can be used (Ascent module), but others don't. Has anyone else seen this?

There is nothing special about the mumechlib.dll we use, it's the same one provided in the Mechjeb plugin. We just provide it in the download for your convenience. Try replacing the DLL with a fresh one from the mechjeb plugin.

Mechjeb is only required if you want to use the empty command pod cockpit, which is a mechjeb part. Otherwise the mod doesn't use mechjeb.

[CrashnBurn]

When that happens to me usually it means the generator or panel are from a different electric power plugin than the engine, making them incompatible.

The Mk4 generator, batteries and engines use the included Kreuzung Electric Energy Plugin (zKreuzung.dll). They are not incompatible with each other.

[aggressorblue]

There is nothing special about the mumechlib.dll we use, it's the same one provided in the Mechjeb plugin. We just provide it in the download for your convenience. Try replacing the DLL with a fresh one from the mechjeb plugin.

Mechjeb is only required if you want to use the empty command pod cockpit, which is a mechjeb part. Otherwise the mod doesn't use mechjeb.

For what it's worth, I'm having no issues with MechJeb, and I didn't use the DLL included with the Mk 4, so no worries on overwriting MechJeb

If that breaks things more, just overwrite your overwrite of their overwrite.

If things are still broken....go make a sandwich?

Edited October 17, 2012 by aggressorblue

[CrashnBurn]

My first post, just wanted to say thanks for these great mods. They really make exploring the Kerbol System exciting.

I've had a few issues and thought I'd post them here for the creators, if they are interested.

• I have one craft that uses 2 unmanned RATs piloted by a MK1-2 command pod(no DROPs, I'll get to that later). From the very beginning of the flight (ie, on the launchpad) I have no images of my Kerbals, no logos in the lower right. Once I have landed, decoupled my RATs, and distributed my Kerbals, the problem persists.

• In the Vehicle Assembly Building I find that while the DROP will latch onto just about anything using the bottom 3 attach points, the two at either end are finicky, to the point that I simply can't use them as often as I'd like. No amount of rotating, flipping or adjusting seems to help. It could be me, but the problem seems more persistent when using unmanned RATs.

• Finally, my RATs often lose control; ie no thrust, steering, motor, etc. I can fix this by going back to the space center and re-selecting the flight. I just thought you should know.

Like I said, I love these rovers, and the DROP pod is a blessing, when I can use it.

Keep up the good work, and let me know if you'd like more info on any of these bugs.

I don't wish to sound mean, but reading the manual would help. It's included in the mod download in both .doc and .txt formats.

From the FAQ section:

Q: Why can't I attach a part to the side nodes?

A: There is a bug in the game that required the first attachment to be connected to the last node parsed in the part.cfg file. Try connecting a part to a node on another axis first. For example, connect the cargo before the engines on the Mk4 pod.

The game has a bug in the way attach nodes are handled. The Up axis of the last attach node parsed in the part.cfg must be attached first in the VAB, before the other up axis nodes will work.

You'll find that if you attach a part to the internal floor node or one of the three parachute attach points first, then the end nodes will connect fine. Since you typically attach the commandpod version into the DROP before connecting the rest of the rocket, the bug would not be an issue. But with the empty pod, some may try to attach the drop to the rocket before adding the Mk4, and the bug rears it's ugly head. We can't fix it. But you can change your build strategy and make it work. A simple workaround would be to build the DROP + empty Mk4 horizontally on top of your rocket then rotate it and connect it vertically in the stack.

I hope that explanation is clear enough to get you building successfully. Enjoy the Mk4 and happy flying.

As far as losing control, that's a new one for me, we don't do anything special there, just use the cart dll. If you read the cart issues, you'll note that an unmanned cart with crew capacity and no crew aboard can not be controlled, also if you use the radio relayl mod, the same issue applies.

Edited October 17, 2012 by CrashnBurn

[CrashnBurn]

For what it's worth, I'm having no issues with MechJeb, and I didn't use the DLL included with the Mk 4, so no worries on overwriting MechJeb

If that breaks things more, just overwrite your overwrite of their overwrite.

If things are still broken....go make a sandwich?

I'll take a Reuben on toasted rye, please, and a potato pancake on the side. Thanks!

[SuitSat]

The game has a bug in the way attach nodes are handled. The Up axis of the last attach node parsed in the part.cfg must be attached first in the VAB, before the other up axis nodes will work.

You'll find that if you attach a part to the internal floor node or one of the three parachute attach points first, then the end nodes will connect fine.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I love the manual, wish more mods came with them. Unfortunately, this doesn't address the issue, for me, perhaps I'm missing something. For example, I've just done a very simple experiment. Mk1-2 command pod, below it a large decoupler, then a fully assembled RAT inside a fully assembled DROP module (built horizontally atop the mk1-2, then detached). I'm still unable to link the end nodes of the DROP to anything. If I sub out the decoupler for other parts, the problem persists. I'm only saying this because it sounds like you're aware of a similar problem (if not the same).

As far as losing control, that's a new one for me, we don't do anything special there, just use the cart dll.

This problem might be unique to my setup. It does reoccur, but is easily worked around.

Thanks again! I've got mk4s on Eve, Gilly, Dune, Ike, 6 on Mun, 4 on Minimus [from my multi-RAT landers]. I screwed up the... er... "math" on the Eve approach and had to use the RAT's onboard engines to de-orbit. Worked great, though.

[skroid101]

From the included Field Manual FAQ:

Q: How do I turn on the generator?

A: Right click on the energy cargo pod and click activate.

I have tried, the energy doesnt change either

[CrashnBurn]

I have tried, the energy doesnt change either

Did you place the zKreuzung.dll in the plugin directory?

[THX-1138]

THX-1138, the problem is that the Mk1 is not a command pod part and thus is considered debris when it is disconnected from the main craft. You could add mechjeb to it if you wish.

Hello CarshBurn,

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my concern. You are correct, the MKI shows up as a debris object on the surface, I will take note of adding the MechJeb to it so it can be tracked and kept in place.

In another note, I have downloaded your and Bobcat's latest creation, DEMV MKIV, it is a great piece of work! I am at awe of the detail and thought put on this DEMV; this is what I had in mind for future transports to planets. I have figured out the issues with balancing correctly the MKIV and can make my rockets fly straight but I am unable to get the MKIV to drive out of the DROP module. I have connected it "correctly" within the DROP module and deployed the wheels but it can not drive out. I have even attempted to use the jetpacks but it is like its glued into the DROP module somehow. I can get the MKIV to drive without problem if I do not have it inside the DROP module. Any insight into this issue is appreciated (I did read the included "ReadMe" file). Eitherway, keep up the good work!

[TelluriumCrystal]

>THX-1138

If I had to guess you just literally put the rover into the pod, correct? Unfortunately that has "welded" the DEMV to the pod .

You will have to use the included decoupler to actually disconnect it from the drop pod after landing. Hopefully this helps!

[THX-1138]

>THX-1138

If I had to guess you just literally put the rover into the pod, correct? Unfortunately that has "welded" the DEMV to the pod .

You will have to use the included decoupler to actually disconnect it from the drop pod after landing. Hopefully this helps!

Hello Thrfoot,

Thank you! Makes logical sense, will follow your suggestion.

[CrashnBurn]

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I love the manual, wish more mods came with them. Unfortunately, this doesn't address the issue, for me, perhaps I'm missing something. For example, I've just done a very simple experiment. Mk1-2 command pod, below it a large decoupler, then a fully assembled RAT inside a fully assembled DROP module (built horizontally atop the mk1-2, then detached). I'm still unable to link the end nodes of the DROP to anything. If I sub out the decoupler for other parts, the problem persists. I'm only saying this because it sounds like you're aware of a similar problem (if not the same).

This problem might be unique to my setup. It does reoccur, but is easily worked around.

Thanks again! I've got mk4s on Eve, Gilly, Dune, Ike, 6 on Mun, 4 on Minimus [from my multi-RAT landers]. I screwed up the... er... "math" on the Eve approach and had to use the RAT's onboard engines to de-orbit. Worked great, though.

We've had two other reports of this and although we can't reproduce it, we're going to lower the collision mesh to try to resolve the issue for the few users that are experiencing it. I don't understand why it's only a problem for a few people, but I'll do my best to fix it. 6677 commented that he moved the attach nodes slightly and that resolved the problem for him, but that would leave a slight gap that is unsightly so I'd prefer to actually adjust the model.