LOST... Old concepts to project never going off paper

[DerekL1963]

2 hours ago, tater said:

Shuttle flew for a long time and literally never used this capability, right?

They used it to some degree on practically every flight.  This file [warning:PDF file] only runs through STS-88, but it shows the amount of cross-range used on each landing.
 

2 hours ago, tater said:

All were planned well in advance (weather at the Cape bad because FL), right?

It's an issue, but not a substantial one that logistics are a concern, it would only ever be used in a dire emergency I assume (else it would have happened already during Shuttle).

Not quite.  Certainly they may have had Edwards planned as a contingency (in case the weather was bad at the Cape), but just because it was planned (whether a nominal landing or a contingency landing) doesn't mean they didn't use the Shuttle's cross range capability to execute the landing.  For example: STS-79 was planned for KSC [warning:PDF file], landed at KSC on schedule in the first planned window, and used 777nm of cross range (see first link above) to do so.

That's why I said what I did above:
 

3 hours ago, DerekL1963 said:

Even without the USAF's high crossrange requirements, crossrange is Really, Really Useful in routine operations.  Crossrange allows a wider range of abort options and widens landing windows/creates landing opportunities (as compared to less or no crossrange).  Increasing crossrange trades weight for safety and operational flexibility.

You could argue they used the capacity because they had it...  And I wouldn't disagree.  But you can't honestly deny that it's a useful capacity.  (It would probably have been better to provide it via OMS than wings though...)

[tater]

1 minute ago, DerekL1963 said:

You could argue they used the capacity because they had it...  And I wouldn't disagree.  But you can't honestly deny that it's a useful capacity.  (It would probably have been better to provide it via OMS than wings though...)

Good points, I suppose it's easy enough to look at their OMS margins to see what they could have done with minor orbital maneuvers before entry. Regardless, smaller wings are not no wings, so it's a reduction, not a removal of the entire capability.

[Guest]

Going to update board today. I’m on mobile right now so I can’t just yet

[Spaceception]

On 9/11/2020 at 3:41 PM, Dirkidirk said:

99% of rocket people already know of this rocket, but still, it is here now.

I wonder what it could've sent to the Moon, more than Starship in a single shot?

[The_Arcitect]

I, honestly find the Ares V to be interesting.

https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/396093main_HSF_Cmte_FinalReport.pdf

Here is a report on:

Why going to the moon is good

Why going to mars is good

How we get to mars.

[tater]

Found more good Bono images...

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/albums/72157669057850210/page1

Wow.

[tater]

 

[tater]

https://web.archive.org/web/20131205003134/https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1981/1981 - 4019.html

 

[tater]

This guy does great vids:

 

[Codraroll]

On 9/12/2020 at 7:02 PM, tater said:

In what world is a single stage solid at almost half a billion dollars "inexpensive?"

In Zimbabwe, cirka 2008.

Half a billion dollars would buy you a loaf of bread at government-regulated prices, but given how almost nobody sold bread at this price, you'd have to shell out around ten billion at black-market rates to get your bread.  Getting a single-stage solid rocket booster for a mere half-billion would have been an absolute bargain.

You never specified that it had to be American dollars, did you?

[magnemoe]

On 3/5/2021 at 5:02 PM, Codraroll said:

In Zimbabwe, cirka 2008.

Half a billion dollars would buy you a loaf of bread at government-regulated prices, but given how almost nobody sold bread at this price, you'd have to shell out around ten billion at black-market rates to get your bread.  Getting a single-stage solid rocket booster for a mere half-billion would have been an absolute bargain.

You never specified that it had to be American dollars, did you?

Had an 100 billion $ Zimbabwe note who I got as an gift from some collector site I do some work for. 
It was fun putting it on the table at restaurants in the US
Ended up getting an decent deal for it, was in Egypt and wanted some souvenir but was low on cash so sorted trough my wallet and the shop owner saw that weird note and wanted it for his note collection in the window, think I got around $20 for the worn note who is very good back then then they was very common. 

[tater]

I have billions of Marks in Reichsbanknote that my grandfather had lying about (Weimar Republic).

Edited March 7, 2021 by tater

[DDE]

On 3/5/2021 at 7:02 PM, Codraroll said:

In Zimbabwe, cirka 2008.

On an unrelated note (pun intended), they're doing it again!

Zimbabwe Continues Its March Back to Hyperinflation - Bloomberg

[Vanamonde]

Anyway, how about those proposed but unrealized space projects? 

[kerbiloid]

Merging both old rocket project and African topics in one, we can remember the OTRAG project, who was being tested in Zaire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTRAG_(rocket)

Spoiler

 

 

[wumpus]

11 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Merging both old rocket project and African topics in one, we can remember the OTRAG project, who was being tested in Zaire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTRAG_(rocket)

 

I think Minotaur's limitation that they couldn't use AF-surplus ICBM motors for commercial flight might have doomed the idea, but I can't help but wonder if Orbital (or anyone else) could have revived the idea with US missile parts.  Or even if the concept was viable with old Russian/Soviet missiles.

I'm guessing that reality vs. KSP was part of the problem, but OTRAG failures don't seem to even get that far.

[DDE]

On 3/8/2021 at 7:46 AM, kerbiloid said:

Merging both old rocket project and African topics in one, we can remember the OTRAG project, who was being tested in Zaire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTRAG_(rocket)

  Hide contents

 

 

That top video with salvos... I can't imagine why they thought this had military potential.

 

[tater]

Triamese:

http://spaceflighthistory.blogspot.com/2021/03/integral-launch-and-reentry-vehicle.html

http://www.pmview.com/spaceodysseytwo/spacelvs/sld020.htm

http://www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com/blog/?p=599

 

[tater]

Not a serious project, but this vid was dropped today and needed to go someplace:

 

And the same artist has ROMBUS:

 

[tater]

His channel is largely this thread, lol:

https://www.youtube.com/c/Hazegrayart/videos

[magnemoe]

3 hours ago, tater said:

His channel is largely this thread, lol:

https://www.youtube.com/c/Hazegrayart/videos

This and probably my favorite

As in maximum Kerbal, in short its two shuttle fuel tanks with their SRB connected to an huge upper stage. Not crossfeed as we know it as the fuel tanks fuels the first stage engines, this engine module drops off after the fuel tanks and the second stage starts up. 

[TheSaint]

2 hours ago, magnemoe said:

This and probably my favorite

As in maximum Kerbal, in short its two shuttle fuel tanks with their SRB connected to an huge upper stage. Not crossfeed as we know it as the fuel tanks fuels the first stage engines, this engine module drops off after the fuel tanks and the second stage starts up. 

It's the "I didn't feel like docking today," stack.

I love Hazegray, been watching them for a while.

[tater]

 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

1 hour ago, tater said:

 

The whole thing was well done - but I particularly liked what he did with the parachute.  That was unexpectedly executed (I thought it would be simple) 

[tater]