JAFO Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 (edited) With @Mr. Peabody's blessing, I am honoured to bring to you the fifth iteration of the venerable KSP Caveman Challenge: KSP Caveman Challenge Facility upgrades are forbidden. Terrible runway and launchpad. Part count of thirty and vehicle mass limit of 18.0 tons. No fancy patched conics, no maneuver nodes and no Deep Space Network. Abhorrent fear of technology as primitive as can be. Acquire 1188 Science Points to unlock twenty nodes of the technology tree. Challenge Rules: Stock career mode (DLC expansions are allowed) EVA construction is allowed and even encouraged Use of Green Monoliths to unlock tech nodes is allowed No mods that alter game play (mods used for graphics, radio chatter, ect. are fine) Use of the KER and/or MechJeb mods, or other mods that provide more information than the stock game does, is not permitted The Making History option "Allow other Launchsites" is not permitted (it makes Caveman life too easy) No use of Mods or Cheat Menu in separate games No cheat menus or any other shenanigans No kraken/ladder drives or similar contraptions Use of spreadsheets and/or external launch window calculators such as the Alex Moon Launch Window Planner, are permitted The minimum amount of proof needed for a challenge entry is screen shots of: Your difficulty settings. (Including advanced/custom settings if needed.) Your Science Archives, showing where the bulk of your science came from. The KSC to show no buildings were upgraded. Your tech tree to show that you completed Tier 5. However, we strongly encourage you to also post interesting screenshots in occasional updates to this thread. It's always fun (and interesting!) to see the different approaches people take to the challenge. Help Resources: Previous challenge threads are the best compilations of previous attempts and useful information, but there are some other places you should check out as well. For your convenience, they are all listed below. Spoiler The Original KSP Caveman Challenge - Thirteen pages full of design ideas & previous attempts The KSP Caveman Challenge 1.1 - Seven pages of comments and previous attempts The KSP Caveman Challenge 1.2 - More attempts and information @MinimalMinmus's Resonant Orbit Table - Extremely useful tool for interplanetary missions @olex's Transfer Window Calculator - Great for planning transfer windows and ejection angles The 1.7.3 Community Caveman Jool-5 Mission - A Jool-5 mission with caveman technology The KSP Caveman Challenge - 1.3 - 1.10 - Thirty pages of design ideas and previous attempts Jacke's KSP Science Checklists - A fantastic product, custom-made to help Cavemen find (and keep track of) those precious science points, no matter where they're hiding Blaarkies' Commnet Planner - A wonderful tool that helps Cavemen (and others) design communication networks. There are 7 levels of challenge to aspire to, and one Special Award: TALC: Complete Challenge in Easy Career Mode You should be able to make quick work of this soft-rock career Spoiler FloppyRocket SpaceShane11 DennisB Apatite: Complete Challenge in Normal Career Mode The minimum amount of flare. Spoiler Popestar FloppyRocket Sirad Rakaydos Scarecrow71 Vanadium: Complete Challenge in Moderate Career Mode A tool's hard edge can make all the difference. Spoiler Topaz: Complete Challenge in Hard Career Mode Happy, shiny caveman. Spoiler Blaarkies paul_c WarSprite Corundum: Custom Difficulty This career would not wear down a tough caveman... Spoiler Diamond: Custom Difficulty For brilliant cavemen, possessed of fire. Spoiler paul_c Blaarkies Nano-crystalline Diamond: Custom Difficulty Hard caveman. Good luck, you'll need it! Spoiler paul_c king of nowhere The Trilobitic Order Legendary cavemen & cavewomen Spoiler Badges: Spoiler Talc awarded for completing talc Apatite awarded for completing apatite Vanadium awarded for completing vanadium Topaz awarded for completing topaz Corundum awarded for completing corundum Diamond awarded for completing diamond Nano-Diamond awarded for completing nano-diamond Badge of Honour awarded for completing everything! Order of the Trilobite awarded for exceptional merit & dedication Edited March 11, 2023 by JAFO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted January 11, 2021 Author Share Posted January 11, 2021 (edited) FAME AT LAST! Yes, we made it into issue 32 of The Weekly Kerman! As well as the subreddit of the same name.. Edited May 4, 2021 by JAFO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popestar Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Any chance I can get my name engraved on the wall now? It never happened in the old challenge, and I assumed it would happen here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Peabody Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 @JAFO, Good luck and have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted January 13, 2021 Author Share Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) On 1/12/2021 at 2:02 AM, Popestar said: Any chance I can get my name engraved on the wall now? It never happened in the old challenge, and I assumed it would happen here. Sure. I'd assumed @Mr. Peabody would have added you as his last official act as moderator of the previous challenge, but I'm more than happy to add you as the first entry for this one instead. Your badge will be in your inbox shortly. (If you decide to take on another level of the Caveman Challenge [and I hope you do!], please do note there is a slight change to the rules, compared to the previous challenge. MechJeb is also disallowed, now. In all previous challenges, it was not permitted, but somehow, in the last challenge, it was not explicitly banned. In this version of the challenge, I have gone back to the traditional rules, in that both KER and MJ are not allowed.) Once again, congratulations on your achievement, @Popestar! An oustanding effort, especially for someone relatively new to KSP. I can't wait to see how your next challenge attempt goes! Edited February 1, 2021 by JAFO spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popestar Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 @JAFO I shall display the Apatite badge proudly! In fact, I'm thinking of doing this again on a harder setting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloppyRocket Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Is there some more information about how to submit documentation for this achievement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popestar Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 hour ago, FloppyRocket said: Is there some more information about how to submit documentation for this achievement? All I did was just post progress updates and images here in the thread. I did have a word doc with launchband science data that I uploaded to Google Docs, and then I linked that here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloppyRocket Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Popestar said: All I did was just post progress updates and images here in the thread. I did have a word doc with launchband science data that I uploaded to Google Docs, and then I linked that here. Thanks. I'm curious what images are required? Images of each ship you launch, and the science earned on each mission, or just the initial game settings and the tech tree at the end? Edited January 16, 2021 by FloppyRocket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popestar Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) @FloppyRocket The settings and the tech tree are required. Any other images are totally optional. For myself, I'm obsessive, so I went bonkers with documentation. You can go into the previous thread and see what I did, but keep in mind that is not required. Edited January 16, 2021 by Popestar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloppyRocket Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Popestar said: @FloppyRocket The settings and the tech tree are required. Any other images are totally optional. For myself, I'm obsessive, so I went bonkers with documentation. You can go into the previous thread and see what I did, but keep in mind that is not required. Thanks much. I have some mods installed that I understand are not allowed for challenge (mechjeb, for science, x science). Is there an easy way to disable these mods, so I don't have to uninstall them? Edited January 16, 2021 by FloppyRocket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted January 16, 2021 Author Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, FloppyRocket said: Is there an easy way to disable these mods, so I don't have to uninstall them? Unfortunately not. The easiest way is to temporarily uninstall them by simply cutting and pasting the mod folders (found in the GameData folder of your KSP installation) to a separate location for the duration of your challenge attempt. After completion, you then simply cut and paste them back again. That way, you won't lose any settings changes or customisations you've made. Alternatively, if you have the hard drive space to spare, you can make a copy of your entire KSP folder in another location, uninstall the requisite mods from it, then run the main KSP executable in the duplicate folder. In fact, you can do this any number of times, so as to have several custom KSP installations. CKAN is designed to be able to manage several KSP installations at once, for this very purpose. (Using a copy of your main installation is also a good technique for preventing Steam updates from breaking mods in the middle of a game campaign.) Edited January 16, 2021 by JAFO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloppyRocket Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 22 minutes ago, JAFO said: Unfortunately not. Thanks for the tips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloppyRocket Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 I'm fairly surprised that there isn't a UI for disabling mods within the game - because having to modify your installation seems like a big kluge. It also makes it difficult to run more than one different activity setup at a time. It's weird that this hasn't ever been developed, given the age of KSP. Maybe the architecture of the game doesn't allow for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popestar Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Full disclosure: I will be starting a new caveman career for Nano-Crystalline next week. Why? Because I can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted January 16, 2021 Author Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Popestar said: Full disclosure: I will be starting a new caveman career for Nano-Crystalline next week. Why? Because I can! Kudos! Do be sure to read through the NCD attempts of others (mostly, if not all in the last CC series) beforehand. Not only is it SERIOUSLY grindy, but it pretty much requires doing interplanetary missions to succeed. If you've never done interplanetary yet, you may want to give that a shot first in a regular game, so as to have a clear idea of what's entailed. 2 hours ago, FloppyRocket said: I'm fairly surprised that there isn't a UI for disabling mods within the game - because having to modify your installation seems like a big kluge. It also makes it difficult to run more than one different activity setup at a time. It's weird that this hasn't ever been developed, given the age of KSP. Maybe the architecture of the game doesn't allow for it. I think there really hasn't been much demand for being able to disable mods. And most people who want to run "more than one different activity setup at a time" simply make multiple installations of KSP, each set up for specific types of play. I regularly have 3 or 4 different KSP installs... one fully modded, one just for Caveman runs, one of the previous version (also modded), and one for experimenting with things like RSS. Edited January 16, 2021 by JAFO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloppyRocket Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Quote And most people who want to run "more than one different activity setup at a time" simply make multiple installations of KSP, That is also a kludge that wouldn't be necessary if the UI supported it within the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popestar Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, JAFO said: Kudos! Do be sure to read through the NCD attempts of others (mostly, if not all in the last CC series) beforehand. Not only is it SERIOUSLY grindy, but it pretty much requires doing interplanetary missions to succeed. If you've never done interplanetary yet, you may want to give that a shot first in a regular game, so as to have a clear idea of what's entailed. This might be a gameplay question, but if you put the parts for a rover on the Mun and then send an engineer up there...can the engineer put the rover together? Edited January 17, 2021 by Popestar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted January 17, 2021 Author Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, FloppyRocket said: That is also a kludge that wouldn't be necessary if the UI supported it within the game. Sounds a little harsh to call it a kludge.. I can't think of any commercial game that provides that level of support for mods.. feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. 7 hours ago, Popestar said: if you put the parts for a rover on the Mun and then send an engineer up there...can the engineer put the rover together? It's been a while since I've messed around with KSP, so many of the new features I'm not up to speed with, but my understanding is that yes, in theory that ought to be possible. I might have to try it out and see. Edited January 17, 2021 by JAFO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popestar Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Well, EVA construction is only available in 1.11, and I haven't upgraded yet. So that's off the table. But I will give it my all in the NCD challenge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloppyRocket Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Sorry, did not mean to offend with my comments about kludges, but it seems to me that installing multiple copies of a program is a rather extreme work-around for a simple missing feature (disabling mods). But I took the advice of moving all the mod folders out of the GameData area. So, a progress report. I got going, flew missions around Kerbin for a while, and unlocked the first three layers of the tech tree. Then I realized that without the ability to launch a scientist to do EVAs and reset the experiments in different Mun and Minmus biomes. it's going to be a real grind getting the fourth layer completed. I have only played in career mode once, and that was a very long time ago. I have not read any of the previous posts from folks who have completed this challenge, mostly because I wanted to discover what the limitations are from playing in this caveman mode. I really don't want to just grind science on Kerbin or around KSP, but that's an option too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popestar Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 @FloppyRocket Don't forget all the science points you can acquire from around the KSC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) 14 hours ago, FloppyRocket said: Sorry, did not mean to offend with my comments about kludges, but it seems to me that installing multiple copies of a program is a rather extreme work-around for a simple missing feature (disabling mods). Oh.. you certainly didn't offend... but managing mods isn't really part of a game's job. That's the job of mod managers such as CKAN. You could always make a suggestion to the CKAN maintainers and see what they think of the idea. 14 hours ago, FloppyRocket said: So, a progress report. I got going, flew missions around Kerbin for a while, and unlocked the first three layers of the tech tree. Then I realized that without the ability to launch a scientist to do EVAs and reset the experiments in different Mun and Minmus biomes. it's going to be a real grind getting the fourth layer completed. I have only played in career mode once, and that was a very long time ago. I have not read any of the previous posts from folks who have completed this challenge, mostly because I wanted to discover what the limitations are from playing in this caveman mode. I really don't want to just grind science on Kerbin or around KSP, but that's an option too. Good for you! Please do provide progress reports, and even some screenshots if you like. It's always interesting to see the solutions people come up with for this challenge. Edited January 18, 2021 by JAFO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_c Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 I've started on "hard" caveman challenge. Down to 1 astronaut within the hour....sorry Jeb..... No facilities upgrades huh? No astronaut complex upgrade, so no EVAs except on the ground?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popestar Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) Quote @paul_c Correct. No facility upgrades, which means you can only EVA while on Kerbin. So I highly suggest hitting every building in the KSC for science, including crew reports and EVA reports. As well as every biome you can get to on Kerbin. It also means no surface samples, which isn't so bad considering you can't EVA off Kerbin anyhow. And, in addition to that, you can't even send an Engineer to the Mun to build something if you have 1.11. You can send the parts, and you could send the Engineer...but with no EVA, you can't get out of the capsule to do the building. The best thing I can tell you is to get creative. I hit everywhere on the KSC I could - including the flag pole - to get science. You will also get science and funds for all the world firsts you accomplish, so don't forget to land something at the island and desert facilities as well. The real bummer, as you pointed out, is no EVA off Kerbin. It made it harder to get what I needed, but the challenge has helped me play better and stretch farther than I ever would have otherwise! Edited January 18, 2021 by Popestar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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