Creator DLC's?

[Caerfinon]

I, for one, am looking forward to being paid handsomely for my efforts of stringing some configuration files together to encourage the flying of airplanes. I'll be rich I tell you! Rich! The fractions of a fraction of a penny will be rolling in!

Muhahahah!

 

[Markodds]

i'll never start a topic again 

[mattinoz]

Which creators would you want to lead a DLC aren't already associated with KSP2?

 

[Kerbart]

2 minutes ago, Markodds said:

i'll never start a topic again 

Just because people don't like an idea of yours doesn't mean they don't like you. Don't take it personal.

[Caerfinon]

15 minutes ago, Markodds said:

i'll never start a topic again

That would be unfortunate. I'm sure that if additional DLC where created through some mechanism by a professional group that would provide support and patches that I might be interested. 

However, as someone who writes a "niche" mod I would never think of monetizing it because it would never occur to me to do so. That doesn't make my opinion correct, it just makes it mine.

[Bej Kerman]

12 hours ago, stupid_chris said:

However, this is not the case for everyone. Modders are content creators, and everyone's life situation is very different. Dismissing so easily the the idea of them being able to be compensated for hundreds to thousands of hours of work is quite silly.

I do want to dismiss the idea of making the modding community a premium one; modding deserves to remain free with options to donate. Again, creator DLCs would fracture this community, as Dientus says here.

On 6/11/2021 at 11:49 PM, Dientus said:

I feel sure you meant no ill, just know this is a VERY anti pay-to-play and pay-to-win community. We/I deal with money hungry games and corporations a lot everyday and hate it.   [...]   We/I would never want that unspoken relationship messed with and I think "paid mods" would do that very thing.

You've also got to consider the fact that the game was built with mods as a way to extend a normally underdeveloped game in mind - this seems to be the core philosophy of many mods out there (such as ReStock+). Making mods paid would build up walls around mods that a lot of people need for their ideal install of KSP.

To wrap this up: just use Patreon, Paypal, etc. mate. You are getting compensated for your work (which I'm glad) and you aren't helping close off parts of the community in pursuit of money.

[stupid_chris]

2 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

I do want to dismiss the idea of making the modding community a premium one; modding deserves to remain free with options to donate.

Modding absolutely does not deserve do stay free. Beggars cannot be choosers. Modders are humans and content creators that deserve to make ends meet, and if modding is the way forward for them they should have a support system to put their skills to use.

Most modders will be glad to do this in their spare time and for their own enjoyment, but expecting from them to do this completely for free is honestly quite insulting to the sheer amount of work that goes into most mods.

Modders do not owe the community the mods they create.

[Bej Kerman]

18 minutes ago, stupid_chris said:

2 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

I do want to dismiss the idea of making the modding community a premium one; modding deserves to remain free with options to donate.

Modding absolutely does not deserve do stay free. Beggars cannot be choosers. Modders are humans and content creators that deserve to make ends meet, and if modding is the way forward for them they should have a support system to put their skills to use.

Most modders will be glad to do this in their spare time and for their own enjoyment, but expecting from them to do this completely for free is honestly quite insulting to the sheer amount of work that goes into most mods.

Modders do not owe the community the mods they create.

That's why we have donations, so that modders get their money and the community doesn't have a thousand and one walls built in the name of greed. Modding deserves to remain free - this community has made it clear that community > money. You also cannot speak on behalf of all the modders; I believe a few other modders here have chimed in disagreeing with the notion of paid mods.

I don't want to participate in this debate anymore. Bottom line is that paid mods are made obsolete out the door by donations and that implementation of the system anyway would absolutely be detrimental to craft sharing and the community

[Dientus]

12 hours ago, Markodds said:

i'll never start a topic again 

Just like Kerbart and Caerfinon say, don't let disagreement stop you. Do you know how many people were against JFK and the moon program? If the movers and shakers then were to stop trying due to difference of opinion, chances are man would have never went to the moon, or if we did, it would most likely have been in the last few years. My opinion is to be open to others viewpoints even if it doesn't agree with your own and make calm and calculated counterpoints. It what makes for better ideas or at the least, better informed decisions due to research and thought process.

 

24 minutes ago, stupid_chris said:

Most modders will be glad to do this in their spare time and for their own enjoyment, but expecting from them to do this completely for free is honestly quite insulting to the sheer amount of work that goes into most mods.

Modders do not owe the community the mods they create.

I understand your point. The name of the mod fails me now, but there does exist "paid mods" for another game.  Should a modder want money, they are welcome to try. What I believe the expectation is is for a working and bug free mod that adds in some way to the game through content or playability. If it delivers, it will be downloaded. If it is on par with the original game and viewed as worth it by the downloaders then they will pay. If it fails on all accounts then noone downloads it or pays for it. If a modder does it for him/her self then I doubt they would waste the time to upload and the pain of criticism. But you know it's true when you upload ajy mod for hosting, it's a given it will be judged. Not that that is good or bad, that is just gaming and modding.

[stupid_chris]

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

Bottom line is that paid mods are made obsolete out the door by donations and that implementation of the system anyway would absolutely be detrimental to craft sharing and the community

This argument is both a hasty generalization and slippery slope fallacy. Donations are not a platform that the average modder can survive on. Modders do not owe anyone free labour if they do not wish so.

If a modder wants to use his platform to make ends meet, he should not be crucified at the stake for trying to earn a living. The concept that modders are undeserving of pay because the concept of community is bigger than us is flawed.

Feel free to not reply if you do not want to participate, no one is forcing you to.

57 minutes ago, Dientus said:

I understand your point. The name of the mod fails me now, but there does exist "paid mods" for another game.  Should a modder want money, they are welcome to try. What I believe the expectation is is for a working and bug free mod that adds in some way to the game through content or playability. If it delivers, it will be downloaded. If it is on par with the original game and viewed as worth it by the downloaders then they will pay. If it fails on all accounts then noone downloads it or pays for it. If a modder does it for him/her self then I doubt they would waste the time to upload and the pain of criticism. But you know it's true when you upload ajy mod for hosting, it's a given it will be judged. Not that that is good or bad, that is just gaming and modding.

Portal is a good example of successful paid mods through Aperture Tag and Portal Stories: Mel. A free mod and paid mod has different expectations on to what is expected as far as support is concerned, and that is normal.

[Dientus]

2 minutes ago, stupid_chris said:

Portal is a good example of successful paid mods through Aperture Tag and Portal Stories: Mel. A free mod and paid mod has different expectations on to what is expected as far as support is concerned, and that is normal.

Very much yes.

 

2 minutes ago, stupid_chris said:

If a modder wants to use his platform to make ends meet, he should not be crucified at the stake for trying to earn a living. The concept that modders are undeserving of pay because the concept of community is bigger than us is flawed.

For myself, it's not so much "undeserving of pay" or being "crucified". It really depends on the game itself coupled with the modders skill and mod quality.

 

If we speak of Portal, (at one time cited as 8 million sold) obviously that model is working to some extent. If it wasn't, the paid mods and extensions would not exist.

If we speak of KSP,  (at one time cited as 2 million sold) I believe any paid for mod would fail in this model. I know you saw the uproar over the DLC's when they came out. Years later there are still people who refuse to buy the DLCs.

 

My point is I think it all depends on context and the game in question. Will I crucify a modder for charging? For KSP No. Will I pay for it? Again for KSP, No. The only thing left is for someone to charge for a mod for KSP and run the numbers and tell us what happens in a year.

 

[snkiz]

On 6/13/2021 at 12:19 PM, Bej Kerman said:

hey only encourage people to flood the place with bad mods because it would earn them a bit of money.

Have you ever played a game that has creator DLC? They not the same as mods. And there's no flood, a flood from whom? It's not like just anyone gets to slap a price on thier mod. It works like this, a well known creator is asked to create a New set of assets, sometimes including new functionality. They work on it as a contract. It gets bug tested integrated the same way any other DLC is for the game. They get downstreamed to the consoles. They get released alongside an update the supports it and does some housekeeping. They remain supported through future updates. Depending on the games cycle you may get one or two Creator DLC's a year, they are inexpensive usually. They support a member of the community, not just with cash, but with something they can possibly put on a CV. They make a good job recruitment tactic as well. If you don't like DLC that's fine, this idea isn't for you. But nothing anyone has said about Creator DLC specifically is even remotely true. There's definitely no reason to get angry about it.

[stupid_chris]

15 minutes ago, Dientus said:

If we speak of Portal, (at one time cited as 8 million sold) obviously that model is working to some extent. If it wasn't, the paid mods and extensions would not exist.

If we speak of KSP,  (at one time cited as 2 million sold) I believe any paid for mod would fail in this model. I know you saw the uproar over the DLC's when they came out. Years later there are still people who refuse to buy the DLCs.

My point is I think it all depends on context and the game in question. Will I crucify a modder for charging? For KSP No. Will I pay for it? Again for KSP, No. The only thing left is for someone to charge for a mod for KSP and run the numbers and tell us what happens in a year.

 

That's just the concept of a free market, and it's fully expected. As I mentioned, a significant step in quality, support, and content is to be expected from a paid mod, otherwise people will just... not pay for it. No one will pay for a cash-grab cheap mod.

The Unity Asset Store is the same idea. There are plenty of free cheap packages to use. But no one expects them to be free, we're simply thankful when they are. Those that aren't free have an increase in quality and support. The paid one without the quality uptick simply do not sell.

[snkiz]

13 minutes ago, stupid_chris said:

support, and content is to be expected from a paid mod,

This is the problem. When your code ships with the game it's not a mod anymore.  JLRepo Said it best, don't drag dev's into this thou.

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by snkiz
spell bad.

[stupid_chris]

1 minute ago, snkiz said:

This is the problem. When your code ships with the game it's not a mod anymore.  JLRepo Said it best, don't drag dev's into this thou.

Well yes, but I am not sure how this applies to an independent paid mod.

[snkiz]

Just now, stupid_chris said:

how this applies to an independent paid mod.

About as well as that applies to dev supported creator DLC's. Like the title. Most of the negativity in the thread is coming form not distinguishing the two.

[stupid_chris]

2 minutes ago, snkiz said:

About as well as that applies to dev supported creator DLC's. Like the title. Most of the negativity in the thread is coming form not distinguishing the two.

I was mostly arguing the point of paid mods not being the spawn of satan, but Creator DLCs are very different yes. Integrating a mod is a very different process and has very different expectations as far as quality is concerned, yet again.

Edited June 14, 2021 by stupid_chris

[chadgaskerman]

I do not know of any Creator DLC's that aren't at least on par with the base game.

[Slyguy3129]

Can't support this, ever. Sorry. Paid mods are a giant no go. Most content creators have ways you can donate, which is perfectly fine.

If you can't afford the time to make a mod, then perhaps you shouldn't make it.

Keeping mods the way they should be free, not only increases the amount of people who can play them, but also increases the content's exposure. Giving the creator the opportunity to be hired on to do that for a living if they so choose.

Not only that, but it gives the original IP, which mod creators don't have rights to profit from, a longer life. I still play Star Wars Empire at War and whatever that expansion was. Not because the base game was good, it wasn't, but because mods have given it a new breath of life.

The idea of "hundreds of thousands of work hours" is laughable. If you are spending that much time on something, it's a passion project. If you want to get paid for it, submit some resumes.

[Iapetus7342]

Paid mods are a worse idea than my first few rockets