Roadmap inquiries

[W.V Kerman]

I am inquiring about 2 things:
1. What amount of time should I expect between releases of more features? Like for example, lets say that it is March 1st, 2023, KSP2 just released and I am wondering "When will we get science/career progression?", should I expect to get it in a few days? weeks? months? years? I personally feel like a month and a half at tops, lmk your opinion.

2. Will off-Kerbin craft building be an option at release? Will it be possible to build craft from my Jool station or Val surface base? or will it be added 2-3 updates down the line?

[regex]

Just now, W.V Kerman said:

1. What amount of time should I expect between releases of more features?

They will probably never tell us this. In software development giving out hard timelines or deadlines ties you to a schedule you may not be able to keep.

As a guess though, I imagine they'll be aiming for a quarterly release, or maybe twice a year (for the big updates, with patches in-between). Clearly they've got some stuff ready for future updates (art assets for colonies, for instance).

Just now, W.V Kerman said:

2. Will off-Kerbin craft building be an option at release?

Doesn't look like it. Orbital construction will come in the "Colonies" update.

[t_v]

Some people have personally interviewed the developers and we have a confirmation that these features are not being developed from scratch, so I don’t think it will take a year or 6 months between updates. I’m optimistic for a one or two month cycle, but to be on the safe side, I’d expect around 4 months per major update. It is just a question of whether they are mostly testing and tweaking versus hammering out entire sections of the game that haven’t been tested yet. I similarly don’t know the answer to the second question, but if there is orbital launches, it’ll likely be just a launch location set in space, not an orbital VAB that you build yourself. 

[intelliCom]

54 minutes ago, regex said:

They will probably never tell us this. In software development giving out hard timelines or deadlines ties you to a schedule you may not be able to keep.

As a guess though, I imagine they'll be aiming for a quarterly release, or maybe twice a year (for the big updates, with patches in-between). Clearly they've got some stuff ready for future updates (art assets for colonies, for instance).

Feels like how Minecraft's updating works. As long as they make the update schedule strongly consistent, I'm fine with this.

55 minutes ago, regex said:

Doesn't look like it. Orbital construction will come in the "Colonies" update.

There's also the question of surface construction on other planets and moons, such as the aforementioned Val. I think this will still be limited to the colonies update.

[regex]

2 minutes ago, intelliCom said:

As long as they make the update schedule strongly consistent, I'm fine with this.

As a professional developer myself, I hope they set realistic goals and take whatever time it needs. Aiming for consistency is laudable, crunching to meet it is really dumb,

[intelliCom]

10 minutes ago, regex said:

As a professional developer myself, I hope they set realistic goals and take whatever time it needs. Aiming for consistency is laudable, crunching to meet it is really dumb,

Maybe three times a year, with 4 month gaps in-between? Means that all the updates on the roadmap release after two years, and KSP2 is seemingly 'complete'.

[regex]

2 minutes ago, intelliCom said:

Maybe three times a year, with 4 month gaps in-between? Means that all the updates on the roadmap release after two years, and KSP2 is seemingly 'complete'.

It'll happen as it happens. Again, clearly they've already got stuff in the works for future updates so we might be surprised, but IMO a six month cycle would be a fairly reasonable goal for new features, iteration, bugfixing, and community input on the next feature round. A four month cycle might get a little tight if they're expecting community involvement but it could be doable.

It's all speculation though, just a guess. I don't know their internal processes, how many people they have, what the code looks like, team morale and quality of life, and so on. Tons of things come into play. IMO expect a six month cycle for the major updates so you're not disappointed when the first one comes out, and then be pleasantly surprised if they pull off a four or three month cycle.

[mcwaffles2003]

My guess is the release schedule will be dependent on how long it takes to perfect each segment. I hope they don't set a schedule for segments but keep a high pace for hot fixes and patches to the current segment so we can really see the improvement. If we want the segments to come quicker we could all collectively agree to be silent on the forums and let bugs go unfound, but the order of segment release makes sense for iteratively finding the right bugs in the right order. In short it makes sense to find the bugs in core building, UI, and flight mechanics before tackling bugs depending on those systems. 

I think this is a cool way to avoid the spaghetti code, as I understand it, that KSP turned into where it became impossible to patch certain bugs that were core to gameplay as that may have a catastrophic and chaotic domino effect to many systems reliant on those already faulty systems. I get why a lot of people here may find this a sad turn of events as we were all expecting a full release soon, but if this makes a better game at the end of the day and I can give a hand, even if it's a little one, to make it better I'm happy to do so. Plus, it's better than releasing a buggy mess and calling it a full release, they're being honest with us here.

[jastrone]

id say each one would take about two to 4 months each. some would go faster of course like science and multiplayer as it has already been confirmed they have already been working on it. the slower ones would probably be the new star systems

[Domonian]

16 hours ago, intelliCom said:

There's also the question of surface construction on other planets and moons, such as the aforementioned Val. I think this will still be limited to the colonies update.

The fact that they have resource gathering under the "Exploration" section worries me. If we are limited to bringing resources from Kerbin, what's the point of a colony in the first place? If we can't make refueling stations around the place or gather resources to build new craft in other solar systems, how are we supposed to fully test things like the science mode or general progression? There's a lot of questions I have about that, since certain features seem to be in very odd places.

[shdwlrd]

I'm just going to plop this thought here. I'm thinking that resource gathering and exploration should come before colonization and interstellar. I understand that resource chains may change or break when colonization and interstellar are released, but getting the tools and concepts ingrained before releasing the updates that will rely on the resource system just makes sense to me. I know that the community will hate the fact that the resource system will be lack luster until release. Along with science and tech progression, resource collection and processing will require a fair amount of tuning to feel right.

[mcwaffles2003]

5 hours ago, Domonian said:

The fact that they have resource gathering under the "Exploration" section worries me. If we are limited to bringing resources from Kerbin, what's the point of a colony in the first place? If we can't make refueling stations around the place or gather resources to build new craft in other solar systems, how are we supposed to fully test things like the science mode or general progression? There's a lot of questions I have about that, since certain features seem to be in very odd places.

4 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

I'm just going to plop this thought here. I'm thinking that resource gathering and exploration should come before colonization and interstellar. I understand that resource chains may change or break when colonization and interstellar are released, but getting the tools and concepts ingrained before releasing the updates that will rely on the resource system just makes sense to me. I know that the community will hate the fact that the resource system will be lack luster until release. Along with science and tech progression, resource collection and processing will require a fair amount of tuning to feel right.

I think resource gathering wont generate as many bugs as colonies will so the devs probably want more time to work on those features, hence having them earlier as well. Not to mention, to gather resources you will need to have colony type parts already nailed down as that is the system based in fusing structures to the ground as will be the case in gathering resources. Finally, where will you put the resources if you don't have a colony to bring them too.

Resource gathering will probably largely entail establishing logistics systems and automating resource collection. We might even see some resource gathering buildings in the colony phase, just they wont be active yet.

[shdwlrd]

25 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

I think resource gathering wont generate as many bugs as colonies will so the devs probably want more time to work on those features, hence having them earlier as well. Not to mention, to gather resources you will need to have colony type parts already nailed down as that is the system based in fusing structures to the ground as will be the case in gathering resources. Finally, where will you put the resources if you don't have a colony to bring them too.

Resource gathering will probably largely entail establishing logistics systems and automating resource collection. We might even see some resource gathering buildings in the colony phase, just they wont be active yet.

You're not wrong, I get the thought process. But the devs will be introducing a completely unfamiliar system to us with the automated supply routes. Resource gathering, storage, and conversion is relatively straightforward. It's the automation of resource transfers that may not be intuitive to use. It may require different iterations to get it "right". Of course, I may be over thinking it, but getting feedback for unfamiliar systems over a longer period of time will seem to get the best results.

[mcwaffles2003]

@shdwlrd That's all true, but I think they want early EA to focus hard on making sure base mechanics work before the stuff that stems from them. When people design colonies, I almost guarantee one will get kraken launched to escape velocity by danny2462 and I think that's a higher priority to nail down. Im hopeful the tutorial system will help guide us to a fair intuition of the automation systems and I think each stage will get a fair amount of attention . Colonies just seem like a more basic or core system while resource gathering is fluffy extension of that. And please don't get me wrong, there is a lot I am hopeful for in the resource gathering system. From resource discovery, to initial exploitation, to final automation. For instance, I am really hoping to see a SCANsat like system employed for resource discover with planetary highlighting and detailed maps being developed out of the orbital scans. I hope the system incorporates a plethora of steps like orbital data giving very broad data followed by rover prospecting to verify site resource concentration, this giving rise to some jackpot areas or flat out duds.

That all said, I don't think improvements will necessarily stop at full release either though many basic mechanics will get hard set in their approach so I get the desire for time to iterate gathering and automation methods. I got good hopes though that they've come up with good solutions.