Landing assistant

[Kalessin1]

All of us saw landing pads in colony update. But to be honest how many of us can make pinpoint landing without assistance from mechjeb, SatNAV and other mods. Map view in KSP 1 was far from accurate. Ok I can perform landing with let's say accuracy 1000m then hover 100m from ground and move to required location but still with 30-50m accuracy and not using all my fuel reserves. That's why I think in KSP 2 there should be some more accurate landing assistant computer, I could be accessible through science tech in middle or late game. I don't mean landing autopilot but at least some guidance to land on this landing pads. And high resolution maps would be nice.

[Bej Kerman]

5 minutes ago, Kalessin1 said:

But to be honest how many of us can make pinpoint landing without assistance from mechjeb, SatNAV and other mods.

Not many. But then again, KSP 1 demanded that you go from knowing nothing to knowing how to enter orbit. I don't think KSP 2 asking you to learn atmospheric landings after learning vacuum landings is that big of an ask.

[The Aziz]

Proper projection tools and you're settled. Assuming you don't screw up the accuracy back in orbit like I did. And yes that's atmospheric landing, things most people are worried about. Pinpoint landings in vacuum are relatively easy.

[Kalessin1]

1 hour ago, The Aziz said:

Proper projection tools and you're settled. Assuming you don't screw up the accuracy back in orbit like I did. And yes that's atmospheric landing, things most people are worried about. Pinpoint landings in vacuum are relatively easy.

But not everyone are so pro  

That's what I meant. It would be nice to have some tool to accurately show landing spot or even mark for example middle of landing pad and assist during descending. Not full autopilot but some assistance to make it nicely. 

When you landing your first module it doesn't matter few meters to the left or right. But when you have colony like in this KSP2 movies it would be nice if you can land on landing pad and not in the middle of solar panels arrays or fuel factory.

[The Aziz]

34 minutes ago, Kalessin1 said:

But not everyone are so pro  

At the end of the video I say it was my 4th time ever in atmo with those two tools. In fact I haven't done that again since recording that video. But again, it's all you need, and some practice (there was loong and hot discussion about it some time ago and I agree that in some cases, practice just can't cut it for various reasons and either there needs to be a way to land far from the colony and still have mission accomplished status, or an autopilot.)

34 minutes ago, Kalessin1 said:

When you landing your first module it doesn't matter few meters to the left or right. But when you have colony like in this KSP2 movies it would be nice if you can land on landing pad and not in the middle of solar panels arrays or fuel factory.

Well then, aside from what I mentioned above, by the time you enter a phase where you land on top of VAB, you should have dozens of landings behind you. All in all it's down to the tools and what the game shows you.

Edited February 8, 2023 by The Aziz

[Bej Kerman]

Just now, The Aziz said:

(there was loong and hot discussion about it some time ago and I agree that in some cases, practice just can't cut it for various reasons and either there needs to be a way to land far from the colony and still have mission accomplished status, or an autopilot.)

But, as you said, practice can cover this. It's only another step of the learning curve.

[The Aziz]

I learned back then there are people with eye-hand coordination problems who would very much like to play as everyone but are unable to hit the same level of precision as your average kerbonaut, no matter how much they practice. Many modern games have accessibility options, why not KSP then? A fine middle ground between making the mid-game too easy for most and unplayable for some.

[Bej Kerman]

1 minute ago, The Aziz said:

I learned back then there are people with eye-hand coordination problems who would very much like to play as everyone but are unable to hit the same level of precision as your average kerbonaut, no matter how much they practice. Many modern games have accessibility options, why not KSP then? A fine middle ground between making the mid-game too easy for most and unplayable for some.

Like slow-mo. KSP already has timewarp, they only need to remove 1x as the lower cap.

[pandaman]

I'd certainly be in favour of a stock equivalent to 'Trajectories'.  

As for landing assistance/autopilot then there is a real life precedent for it (Space X most notably).

So some form of 'unlockable' tech would seem appropriate.  Possibly also pilot skill could be used as a 'low tech', but less precise erratic option.

[intelliCom]

Somewhat unrelated point: In KSP1, it is generally better to overshoot the KSC than undershoot it.

With the rocket facing backwards, thrust can be applied to adjust as you're approaching. Even if you overshoot too much, there's water directly ahead.
If you undershoot, there's no real way to push further to the KSC, and an even bigger risk of crashing into the mountain range.

I've managed multiple landings near the KSC, even without mods. It's not that hard.

Edited February 10, 2023 by intelliCom

[The Aziz]

That applies to everywhere. But without mods it's hard to predict how much you have to overshoot when you set up reentry. With unpowered landings I very often just see KSC below as I pass it by, far from landing and end up many kilometers to the east.

[Vl3d]

22 hours ago, pandaman said:

I'd certainly be in favour of a stock equivalent to 'Trajectories'.  

I cannot imagine stock KSP2 without this feature.

[The Aziz]

Correct. Not when they expect us to build early colonies by landing the modules next to each other. Unless they come up with some clever workarounds.

[Lowi_Sace]

On 2/8/2023 at 8:46 PM, Kalessin1 said:

That's why I think in KSP 2 there should be some more accurate landing assistant computer, I could be accessible through science tech in middle or late game. I don't mean landing autopilot but at least some guidance to land on this landing pads. And high resolution maps would be nice.

Yeah there should be something like a landing planner. Like a map indicator that shows to wich place of the surface you are heading (taking rotation planet/moon into account). with that function you could plan manuevres for landing precisely. Atmosphere would make such a landing harder because airdrag would change depending on how craft is oriented (wich will make it challenging and fun) 

[darthgently]

Something like the Trajectories mod perhaps

[pandaman]

2 hours ago, Vl3d said:

I cannot imagine stock KSP2 without this feature.

Unfortunately I can.  

I think it's likely something along those lines will be included, before v1.0 anyway, but I don’t share your apparent over optimism.

[Bej Kerman]

5 hours ago, The Aziz said:

Correct. Not when they expect us to build early colonies by landing the modules next to each other. Unless they come up with some clever workarounds.

I don't remember seeing anything like Trajectories last time I seen a screenshot of the map view, the orbit just continues until it hits the surface IIRC.

[The Aziz]

Well, yes, but maybe it uses Trajectories view by default, if you get what I mean. Then maybe it shows when you target something on the surface, there's a lot of maybes until we see it or not.

[Bej Kerman]

9 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Well, yes, but maybe it uses Trajectories view by default, if you get what I mean. Then maybe it shows when you target something on the surface, there's a lot of maybes until we see it or not.

I can't think of a reason the UI designers would do this but to spite people who also use Trajectories for things like aerobraking or picking landing spots that have nothing to do with existing surface bases.