Please, give the community KSP1's source code

[Cytauri]

12 hours ago, darthgently said:

Have you matched inclination? Many have gotten intercepts and landed on Dres, I've done it even, so it can be done

Don't tell the Kerbal government, but I have gotten to Dres once and it just looked like a big rock. On the surface, there were a few stones every couple miles.

[AtomicTech]

THE

SOURCE

MUST

FLOW

[RevanX_LSR]

On 7/16/2023 at 8:51 AM, Cytauri said:

Don't tell the Kerbal government, but I have gotten to Dres once and it just looked like a big rock. On the surface, there were a few stones every couple miles.

did u visit the canyon?

[Cytauri]

3 hours ago, JNSQFan said:

did u visit the canyon?

Yes, it was just a ravine with very glitchy terrain textures. Very interesting…

[Royalswissarmyknife]

Dont go to des it will cause the world to end and the flat Kerbin society to be proven right!1!11!!1111!

also the source must flow to find out if kerbin is flat or not

[Lisias]

We have yet a new argument for it! See this thread for details:

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/218634-need-a-help-on-a-ksp-bug-i-am-dealing-with/?do=findComment&comment=4309108

[Bej Kerman]

2 hours ago, Lisias said:

We have yet a new argument for it!

I think this movement is old news.

[Lisias]

1 minute ago, Bej Kerman said:

I think this movement is old news.

It will never be old news while new bugs screwing user's life on KSP will be consistently discovered.

It may take years, but this is not going away - in a way or another, it will happen.

[Bej Kerman]

1 minute ago, Lisias said:

It may take years, but this is not going away - in a way or another, it will happen.

Consider the possibility Squad doesn't see a good reason to release the source, regardless of how much the userbase pesters them.

[Lisias]

6 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Consider the possibility Squad doesn't see a good reason to release the source, regardless of how much the userbase pesters them.

It's not on their hands. The Source WILL flow - the choice they have is if they will be part of the process, dealing with people that still loves the franchise and are willing to help, or if it will happen by the hands of people that don't care about them and are going to make some bucks at their expenses, something like this video:

 

The Source WILL flow, we just don't know (yet) when or by whom. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Lisias
Grammars. Don't you hate this thing?

[Bej Kerman]

18 hours ago, Lisias said:

It's not on their hands. The Source WILL flow - the choice they have is if they will be part of the process, dealing with people that still loves the franchise and are willing to help, or if it will happen by the hands of people that don't care about them and are going to make some bucks at their expenses, something like this video:

Releasing the source against Squad's will sounds like a good way to be slapped with a cease and desist.

[Lisias]

9 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Releasing the source against Squad's will sounds like a good way to be slapped with a cease and desist.

The source was already "released", the Genie is out of the Bottle. There're already bootleg copies around, probably made by some practices that I'm not allowed to mention on this Forum. All you need is the right contacts, or the will to redo the job yourself - and a complete disregard for the Forum and Squad.

The only ones with the hands tied are people like me, willing to stick with the good Side of the Force.

[Bej Kerman]

2 minutes ago, Lisias said:

The only ones with the hands tied are people like me, willing to stick with the good Side of the Force.

I'm willing to bet they'll remain tied for as long Squad and TT are in business.

[Lisias]

Just now, Bej Kerman said:

I'm willing to bet they'll remain tied for as long Squad and TT are in business.

Their loss.

[Bej Kerman]

2 minutes ago, Lisias said:

Their loss.

I'm struggling to see how it's their loss.

[Lisias]

Just now, Bej Kerman said:

I'm struggling to see how it's their loss.

I'm not surprised.

[Bej Kerman]

18 hours ago, Lisias said:

I'm not surprised.

You could explain to me how it's their loss; so long as people are buying KSP 1 and people on this very forum are touting KSP 1 as a better alternative to KSP 2, then what's Squad losing out on?

[Lisias]

20 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

You could explain to me how it's their loss;

Gladly.

20 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

so long as people are buying KSP 1 and people on this very forum are touting KSP 1 as a better alternative to KSP 2, then what's Squad losing out on?

You may not be fully aware, but KSP¹ has an awful lot of bugs. People are touting KSP¹ because KSP2 right now is even worse - KSP¹ at least is working more or less fine for the majority of the users. For now.

But the landscape is changing, and it's changing a lot.

For starters, as people start to buy that new "hybrid" CPUs (and AMD is following suit on this), weird bugs are starting to raise due some really, really stupid decisions made in the past (not only on KSP¹, but also on Unity - things are really going to get that ugly). Things are going to go South pretty fast in the next months as these new CPUs are getting cheaper and more people start to use them on KSP¹.

Not being bad enough, we have now another GPU problem. By some reason that caught even me with my pants down, old GPUs are coming back on Steam, see the GTX 1660 - not exactly a decent GPU for serious gaming nowadays - got a 1.86% increase on the Steam user base, by the numbers of the last Steam Survey. This thing doesn't have even 8GB VRAM, it have a relatively puny (by nowadays standards) 6GB VRAM - hell, I have reports of 6GB VRAM users getting screwed by that tragedy called P.D. Launcher when used on a modestly modded KSP¹ rig. But yet, it's the GPU that most earned "market share" on June, being Steam Deck (another not exactly top notch GPU powerhouse) coming in second.

There must be a reason NVidia decided to cancel pressing wafers for the 4090 line, right?

Do a quick research on the threads I had created in the last 3 or 4 years, and you will find me complaining about threads, memory and VRAM for some time already - KSP's memory footprint had grown together the backlog, adding insult to the injury.

KSP¹ have almost 8 years of a pretty heavy backlog of bugs badly handled or just ignored, and the only two add'ons I'm aware that are trying to minimize the damages are no enough:

• One, in an excess of optimism, is making lots os changes on the game guts - without being fully aware of unintended consequences (and almost surely aggravating the crisis I described above).
• Other, in an abundance of caution, just can't do the needed white box testings fast enough - besides being able to diagnose some pretty interesting bugs nevertheless.
  • One of them plaguing users since KSP 1.2.2, and it's not impossible it's the root cause of a lot of gambiarras made as time gone by and that ended up creating a log of grief due the colateral effects.

The list of technical debits are only growing since the first Big Unity Change on KSP 1.4.0 (from Unity 5 to 2017), and the situation didn't improved too much on the second one on KSP 1.8.0 (from Unity 2017 to 2019).

The rollercoaster is starting to go down from this point, I fear things will start to happen pretty fast sooner than later.

In the mean time, KSP¹ still have a lot of highly skilled enthusiasts around, even people working on space agencies around the World (not to mention a lot of technically skilled and field experienced professionals, as yours truly). But there's a catch - professionals can't risk being caught dealing with shady practices.

Hell, NASA's trainees can't swore in public (more details here) damnit, what to say a software engineer being caught with something that is being called Piracy around here?

Right now, and unless someone else step up with a better idea, Releasing the Source Code (even in a shared source style license) is the best way to give KSP¹ a better chance to pass trough the hurricane that is approaching - from the technical, political, public relations and legal point of view.

Assuming, of course, that there's still people enough around willing to contribute as Pro Bono (because it's pretty unlikely that such people will do Charity Work for any profit pursuing Company, what to say to a hugely funded one).

The Source NEED to flow.

Spoiler

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Lisias
Some entertaining grammars made less entertaining.

[Bej Kerman]

45 minutes ago, Lisias said:

Right now, and unless someone else step up with a better idea, Releasing the Source Code (even in a shared source style license) is the best way to give KSP¹ a better chance to pass trough the hurricane that is approaching - from the technical, political, public relations and legal point of view.

Assuming, of course, that there's still people enough around willing to contribute as Pro Bono (because it's pretty unlikely that such people will do Charity Work for any profit pursuing Company, what to say to a hugely funded one).

If the source flowing is the only outcome for you, can you explain what the plan is if Squad has no plans to release it or listen to the forums?

[Lisias]

11 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

If the source flowing is the only outcome for you, can you explain what the plan is if Squad has no plans to release it or listen to the forums?

Of course I can't, I'm a skilled Software Developer, not a fortune teller by Kraken's sake!

I will not risk my name and my career on shady practices, not matter how much I like this freaking game - this is the only thing I can say for sure about the future.

But the Source will flow in a way or another - it only happens that depending on how it will happen (or it's happening), I will not be involved. As a matter of fact, this is already happening, you know?  But Forum rules prevents such discussion here - perhaps you should dig a bit on Reddit?

[Bej Kerman]

On 8/8/2023 at 4:20 AM, Lisias said:

Of course I can't, I'm a skilled Software Developer, not a fortune teller by Kraken's sake!

I will not risk my name and my career on shady practices, not matter how much I like this freaking game - this is the only thing I can say for sure about the future.

But the Source will flow in a way or another - it only happens that depending on how it will happen (or it's happening), I will not be involved. As a matter of fact, this is already happening, you know?  But Forum rules prevents such discussion here - perhaps you should dig a bit on Reddit?

Of course people can reverse engineer the game, I gathered that. But it's evidently not doing much if people still want Squad to release the source so fans can fix it. I'm saying an official source release would've happened already if it was ever going to happen. If T2 doesn't already have plans to permit a source release, it's not going to rise any further on their priority list while the playerbase dwindles.

[Lisias]

10 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Of course people can reverse engineer the game, I gathered that. But it's evidently not doing much if people still want Squad to release the source so fans can fix it.

Yep, that's the point. The best people for the job tend to avoid such controversial practices. There's a reason Open Source licensed material usually survives the challenge of time (Doom, Quake, etc - but there's also the underdogs, like Abuse.* Interesting, decided to compile it and plat a bit, it's 10 years since the last time I did it...) while commercial, closed source material usually goes to abandonware sites - if much.

 

10 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

I'm saying an official source release would've happened already if it was ever going to happen. If T2 doesn't already have plans to permit a source release, it's not going to rise any further on their priority list while the playerbase dwindles.

But since we don't know what's happening on T2, we have essentially two choices:

1: Doing nothing, and just wait for the better.

Frankly, we are a bunch of add'on Authors. Sitting on our hands and waiting for someone else doing the job is not exactly on our D.N.A.

 

2: Keep pushing the campaign.

If T2 will not ever release the Source, there's really nothing to loose by keeping doing it. Add'On authoring is already a lost fund undertaking for the most part, so why worry? It's just the same thing, but using a browser instead of an IDE.

If T2 is considering the release of the Source, what damages talking about will cause? At very least will help to stuff some reports on the meetings.

Additionally, people came and go on companies. The one that would be blocking the idea now someday will be promoted (or fired), and their replacement may be more inclined to consider the idea - but only if aware of the idea. How to make any potential future decision maker (currently not on the loop) aware of the idea? By pushing it ahead, as we are doing here.

In a way or another:

• Not talking about do no damages, but do no good neither.
• Talking about do no damages, but there's a chance that it would do some good.

The choice about what to do is logical.

— — POST EDIT — — 

* And the thing still works. Wanna play Abuse on a modern Computer?

Download 0.8 from http://abuse.zoy.org/wiki/download

Download the Source tarball from https://github.com/Xenoveritas/abuse/releases

Rename <dir>/macos to <dir>/macOS if you are on MacOS with case sensitive file system.

Follow the instructions on the BUILDING.md 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Lisias
POST EDIT

[bobjonesisthebest:D]

I think this would be great for the community but an absolutely awful business decision

[Lisias]

1 hour ago, bobjonesisthebest:D said:

I think this would be great for the community but an absolutely awful business decision

Please develop. This thread is full with cases of success,  demonstrating it's possible to open the source and still be profitable - sometimes extending the lifespan of the product beyond expectations.

If you have counterexamples, please share!

[WhatALovelyNick]

Hey, we have more than a hundred cosmonauts, who've said "yes".

Cool.

happy_jebs_face.jpg