PC hardware advice master thread for KSP2. (Ask if your specs are good enough or what to buy here.)

[The Aziz]

3 hours ago, Streetwind said:

On the space center screen, and when launching and landing or looking at a celestial body from orbit for any other reason, you'll tank to between 20 and 30 FPS.

And for that reason, whenever I launch something I point the camera straight into sky. Makes launches more smooth.

[Hlivno]

7 hours ago, Streetwind said:

You will get >30 FPS in space, with only your craft in view of the camera, and no celestial bodies in sight. You will also get >30 FPS in the VAB. Maybe even >60, but I'm not sure. On the space center screen, and when launching and landing or looking at a celestial body from orbit for any other reason, you'll tank to between 20 and 30 FPS.

That's for 1080p. On 720p you might barely approach 30 FPS in some, but not all of those bad situations.

Reason is the 6GB VRAM on your video card, and KSP2 using an extremely performance intensive way to render planet surfaces at the moment. This chokes out any video card with 6 GB or lower, especially on 1080p and up, regardless of what graphics settings you choose. I've got a 1060 6GB, same VRAM but slower GPU, and that GPU isn't even being fully loaded because the card is desperately out of memory at all times. Your card has a fair amount more memory bandwidth, which will definitely help alleviate some symptoms, but it won't change the fact that the VRAM is too small for the game to run well.

So you can do what I'm doing - plan an upgrade in the next months - or hold off on buying the game until a few more patches have gone down the road. Performance already improved a bit going from initial release to the first patch. Intercept Games are also already trialing a replacement for the planetary surface renderer, but I would be surprised if it came out before summer. Such fundamental revamps take time.

Your CPU and memory are fine. Both are within the range of published system specs.

Thank you, I'll hold off on the game for now but l will follow up on the latest updates and patches to see if they optimize the game a little better for video cards with less VRAM as you mentioned. 

[Streetwind]

Keep in mind that VRAM use is currently going up sharply, fuelled by new render engines like UE5, and new technologies like raytracing, and the general shift towards UWQHD and UHD gaming.

Hogwarts Legacy won't run well with max settings even on 1080p unless you have at least 12GB VRAM, no matter the power of your GPU. A 3060 non-Ti with its 12GB will run that game better than a more expensive 3060 Ti, or even a 3070, with their 8! And that's not an outlier, but merely one example among a growing series of recent and upcoming PC releases where currently available video cards will run out of VRAM long before they run out of raw rendering power. Nvidia has been sitting on essentially the same VRAM setup for the past five years, with only a few outliers like the aforementioned 3060 12GB, and minor increases here and there. The 4070 series finally got bumped up from 8 to 12 GB, but only because there was a excrementsstorm after Nvidia originally tried to release the card that now became the 4070 Ti under a 4080 name. With 12GB, if you can imagine that. And still, most gaming hardware review outlets agree that in their testing, they found cases where the 4070 Ti already can't use its GPU power because it runs out of VRAM. With today's games. Nevermind the future. And nevermind the 4060 series, where even the Ti variant looks to be getting only 8GB. Like the 3060 Ti before it. And the 2060 "Ti" (okay, "Super") before that. The third generation of xx60 cards in a row with the exact same VRAM setup.

What I'm trying to say is, don't expect upcoming games to fit into old VRAM corsets. AMD is somewhat better about it, but Nvidia especially completely dropped the ball while padding its corporate margins by a few more percent through omitting a few extra memory chips.

Games going forward are going to need a lot more VRAM than entry level cards will supply. Not just KSP2. Heck, if KSP2 can remain at the current 8GB for 1080p and 10GB for 1440p recommendations by the time it releases in two years or so, it'll be considered downright frugal compared to its contemporaries. And even then, slap another 4 to 6 GB on top for if you want to run any graphics mods.

And why should Nvidia care? They do have a 24 GB card for sale if you really want one! Step right up and buy, only two thousand bucks! How nice of all those games coming out to upsell the customer to the highest margin products without Nvidia having to put in any effort whatsoever...

Yeah, I'm salty, can you tell? But it's a excrementsty situation no matter how you look at it. The market leader is charging an arm and a leg for cards that won't run the games they promise to run at the fidelity their GPUs could technically run them, because there's no memory to work with. The market runner up is sitting on a single compelling new-generation product, which just so happens to also be the maximum price, maximum margin, luxury halo item in their lineup, plus another card that's intentionally positioned so poorly on the market that its whole purpose is upselling the customer to the aforementioned halo card, and just refuses to release anything else. And the new kid on the block is likely gonna be sitting in the corner sniffing graphics driver glue for another two years before their technically good hardware stops being let down by their garbage software.

So, no offense, but hoping your 6GB card is going to carry you much further with new and upcoming games is very, very unrealistic. I really wish it wasn't so (not least because I also still have a 6GB card!), but, nothing we can really do about it.

Personally, I'll likely show the GPU makers the middle finger this time around and get a used 3060 12GB for 250€ when I build a new PC in a few months, rather than spend 700+€ on something with the exact same VRAM setup and a GPU that won't be able to flex its muscle. It'll tide me over until, hopefully, both AMD and Nvidia will set their future RX 8xxx and RTX 5xxx series up with significantly more memory. Then I might be willing to buy new again.

</rant over, I promise>

 

EDIT: Oh my dog, the profanity filter is amazing XD I'm not even gonna try and fix it, I love it.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Streetwind

[Hlivno]

2 hours ago, Streetwind said:

Keep in mind that VRAM use is currently going up sharply, fuelled by new render engines like UE5, and new technologies like raytracing, and the general shift towards UWQHD and UHD gaming.

Hogwarts Legacy won't run well with max settings even on 1080p unless you have at least 12GB VRAM, no matter the power of your GPU. A 3060 non-Ti with its 12GB will run that game better than a more expensive 3060 Ti, or even a 3070, with their 8! And that's not an outlier, but merely one example among a growing series of recent and upcoming PC releases where currently available video cards will run out of VRAM long before they run out of raw rendering power. Nvidia has been sitting on essentially the same VRAM setup for the past five years, with only a few outliers like the aforementioned 3060 12GB, and minor increases here and there. The 4070 series finally got bumped up from 8 to 12 GB, but only because there was a excrementsstorm after Nvidia originally tried to release the card that now became the 4070 Ti under a 4080 name. With 12GB, if you can imagine that. And still, most gaming hardware review outlets agree that in their testing, they found cases where the 4070 Ti already can't use its GPU power because it runs out of VRAM. With today's games. Nevermind the future. And nevermind the 4060 series, where even the Ti variant looks to be getting only 8GB. Like the 3060 Ti before it. And the 2060 "Ti" (okay, "Super") before that. The third generation of xx60 cards in a row with the exact same VRAM setup.

What I'm trying to say is, don't expect upcoming games to fit into old VRAM corsets. AMD is somewhat better about it, but Nvidia especially completely dropped the ball while padding its corporate margins by a few more percent through omitting a few extra memory chips.

Games going forward are going to need a lot more VRAM than entry level cards will supply. Not just KSP2. Heck, if KSP2 can remain at the current 8GB for 1080p and 10GB for 1440p recommendations by the time it releases in two years or so, it'll be considered downright frugal compared to its contemporaries. And even then, slap another 4 to 6 GB on top for if you want to run any graphics mods.

And why should Nvidia care? They do have a 24 GB card for sale if you really want one! Step right up and buy, only two thousand bucks! How nice of all those games coming out to upsell the customer to the highest margin products without Nvidia having to put in any effort whatsoever...

Yeah, I'm salty, can you tell? But it's a excrementsty situation no matter how you look at it. The market leader is charging an arm and a leg for cards that won't run the games they promise to run at the fidelity their GPUs could technically run them, because there's no memory to work with. The market runner up is sitting on a single compelling new-generation product, which just so happens to also be the maximum price, maximum margin, luxury halo item in their lineup, plus another card that's intentionally positioned so poorly on the market that its whole purpose is upselling the customer to the aforementioned halo card, and just refuses to release anything else. And the new kid on the block is likely gonna be sitting in the corner sniffing graphics driver glue for another two years before their technically good hardware stops being let down by their garbage software.

So, no offense, but hoping your 6GB card is going to carry you much further with new and upcoming games is very, very unrealistic. I really wish it wasn't so (not least because I also still have a 6GB card!), but, nothing we can really do about it.

Personally, I'll likely show the GPU makers the middle finger this time around and get a used 3060 12GB for 250€ when I build a new PC in a few months, rather than spend 700+€ on something with the exact same VRAM setup and a GPU that won't be able to flex its muscle. It'll tide me over until, hopefully, both AMD and Nvidia will set their future RX 8xxx and RTX 5xxx series up with significantly more memory. Then I might be willing to buy new again.

</rant over, I promise>

 

EDIT: Oh my dog, the profanity filter is amazing XD I'm not even gonna try and fix it, I love it.

 

Thank you again, I don't really play much modern games or really plan to.  After all I bought Gta4 and Gmod in 2023 lol. But I'm definitely taking VRAM into consideration when I ever upgrade my video card. 

[Montag]

Does KSP 1 and 2 count as a "game" where the AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D would be a real winner of a processor, or would it fall under productivity due to the physics calculations and a non-X3D style processor would be better?

Edited April 9, 2023 by Montag

[Streetwind]

I'm not aware of any benchmarks to this end, so this is likely unknown at this time. Also see this discussion thread.

EDIT: that thread has since received additional discussion, and the tentative answer seems to lean towards "yes, KSP does like cache".

Edited April 11, 2023 by Streetwind

[Kerbwrks]

Hello is anyone out there I want to build a PC for KSP2 and do not have any money. i only have abt $240 but i wash cars for my neighbor. every other month i make $50 and the other I make $25. I have quite a few options, and will copy the links below. KSP 1 is awesome but I cant add mods because my dad doesnt want me to crash his laptop like i did for another one ( it was just the hard drive).  MSI NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3050 Gaming X 8G 8GB GDDR6 PCI Express 4.0 Graphics Card Black RTX 3050 Gaming X 8G - Best Buy Amazon.com: AMD Ryzen 7 5700G 8-Core, 16-Thread Unlocked Desktop Processor with Radeon Graphics : Electronics MSI GeForce RTX 3060 Ventus 2x OC 8 GB GDDR6 Graphics Card | Google Shopping  Neo Forza MARS 64GB (2x32GB) 288-Pin DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) RGB SDRAM Desktop Memory Model NMGD432F82-3601DF20 - Newegg.com  PNY CS2140 2TB M.2 NVMe Gen4 X4 Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) - M280CS2140-2TB-RB | Google Shopping  Amazon.com: SHOWKINGS Radeon RX 580 8GB Graphics Card, 256Bit 2048SP GDDR5 AMD Video Card for Pc Gaming, DP HDMI DVI-Output, PCI Express 3.0 with Dual Fan for Office and Gaming : Electronics  Samsung 970 EVO Plus 2TB Internal SSD PCIe Gen 3 x4 NVMe MZ-V7S2T0B/AM - Best Buy   Amazon.com: Apevia ATX-PM1000W Premier 1000W 80+ Gold Certified Active PFC ATX Semi-Modular Gaming Power Supply with 366 RGB Light Modes : Electronics   google.com/url?url=https://www.walmart.com/ip/ASRock-Phantom-Gaming-Arc-A770-8GB-GDDR6-PCI-Express-4-0-x16-ATX-Video-Card-A770-PGD-8GO/2557117833%3Fwmlspartner%3Dwlpa%26selectedSellerId%3D101353918&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwj7qazCwu6AAxWsKkQIHb30AwEQguUECMQU&usg=AOvVaw3O7mXA0JlcFlh5ylGX2f6c https://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-Frozen-Black-ARGB-Controlled/dp/B0BWJS56BF/ref=sr_1_10?crid=2ZLBGRZ2CLZZL&keywords=liquid%2Bcooler%2Bfor%2Bryzen%2B5%2B3600%2B6%2Bcore&qid=1695091495&s=electronics&sprefix=liquid%2Bcooler%2Bfor%2Bryzen%2B5%2B3600%2B6%2Bcore%2Celectronics%2C140&sr=1-10&th=1   EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11GB FTW3 - B39, Damaged Fan Controller | eBay    Amazon.com: PNY CS2140 2TB M.2 NVMe Gen4 x4 Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) - M280CS2140-2TB-RB : Electronics   Amazon.com: MUSETEX ATX PC Case Pre-Install 6 PWM ARGB Fans, Polygonal Mesh Computer Gaming Case, Opening Tempered Glass Side Panel Mid-Tower Case, USB 3.0 x 2, Black, NN8 : Electronics  Amazon.com: MUSETEX ATX PC Case Pre-Install 6 PWM ARGB Fans, Polygonal Mesh Computer Gaming Case, Opening Tempered Glass Side Panel Mid-Tower Case, USB 3.0 x 2, Black, NN8 : Electronics  

Edited October 20, 2023 by Vanamonde

[chefsbrian]

With your income how it looks, I wouldn't worry too much about picking out parts just yet. It will take a while to save up the money for a build, and in that time period, a lot of new hardware will come out. By the time you're ready, you will almost assuredly be able to build a better computer for less money.

If you can save up $1,000 USD, you should be good to go. And by the time you've done so, KSP2 will hopefully have most of its big new features out, and a robust modding community for you to enjoy.

[cocoscacao]

There comes a time in every man's life when he has to choose. I want a car... or... I want a gaming PC...

[Alexoff]

2 hours ago, cocoscacao said:

There comes a time in every man's life when he has to choose. I want a car... or... I want a gaming PC...

What kind of computer is this for the price of a car?! A car is more of an alternative to a down payment on a mortgage.

[TLTay]

I hate to inform you, but KSP2 is not worth the time or money.

You're going to be disappointed. Have you looked into the actual state of the game and the rate at which they're putting work into it? I'd just wait on KSP2 until you get out of college, assuming you're maybe 10 I'm guessing by the post. By then, it'll either be done or unfinished abandonware.

 

Also, are you trying to solicit for someone else to buy you a computer? Cause that's what it sounds like.

Edited October 8, 2023 by TLTay

[The Aziz]

4 hours ago, Alexoff said:

What kind of computer is this for the price of a car?! A car is more of an alternative to a down payment on a mortgage.

Ever heard of second hand market?

[dave1904]

Once KSP2 is in a playable/enjoyable state then you can build a pc. Don't do it now. Its a waste of money. In the meantime the hardware you listed will get cheaper and you can save money. 

[cocoscacao]

7 hours ago, Alexoff said:

What kind of computer is this for the price of a car?! A car is more of an alternative to a down payment on a mortgage

The question ypu should be asking is "what kinda of car is this for price of a PC?". The answer is: the first one.  Old, but it can still go another 150.000kms

[Alexoff]

3 hours ago, cocoscacao said:

The question ypu should be asking is "what kinda of car is this for price of a PC?". The answer is: the first one.  Old, but it can still go another 150.000kms

It seems to me that the majority of such a choice would take a computer, since a car for that kind of money usually absorbs all the free time and money for constant repairs. I recently sold one of these to a young man for the price of scrap metal. He rarely rides on it, but often repairs it with his father.

And a normal car (which you wouldn’t be ashamed to take your girlfriend for a ride in) costs much more than the coolest computer.

[The Aziz]

1 hour ago, Alexoff said:

car for that kind of money usually absorbs all the free time and money for constant repairs

Not really. Cheers from a 20year old Renault bought for less than $1000. Sure it requires some maintenance every now and then but I've seen plenty of newer cars that break down more often.

What does it have to do with building a pc for KSP2 though?

[VlonaldKerman]

At this point, there isn’t really a point to ultra high end GPUs etc for KSP 2- I have a 4090 and I get very bad GPU utilization, and I’m pretty sure RT cores aren’t supported (I may be wrong). So that’s good budget-wise.

[Scarecrow71]

On 10/7/2023 at 5:53 PM, Alexoff said:

What kind of computer is this for the price of a car?! A car is more of an alternative to a down payment on a mortgage.

Hey, at one point in my life I had to decide if I wanted to pay rent or buy a new guitar.  My mom was not happy when I moved home.

[VlonaldKerman]

2 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Hey, at one point in my life I had to decide if I wanted to pay rent or buy a new guitar.  My mom was not happy when I moved home.

Respect.

[jost]

On 10/9/2023 at 5:56 PM, Scarecrow71 said:

Hey, at one point in my life I had to decide if I wanted to pay rent or buy a new guitar.  My mom was not happy when I moved home.

Both is totally relatable

[Alpha_star]

Hi newbie! I play KSP2 somewhat often on three computers.

1. A custom computer with a Zotac RTX 3080, a Ryzen 9 5900X and two 16g RAM sticks. It runs KSP2 fairly well, 60+ FPS all the way with max graphics except some occations. However, the rig costs more than 1500 dollars (13000RMB at the time of my purchase but changed due to currency and the price drop for GPU). It is sure expensive, but if you can save enough money, then you’ll get a good experience.

2. An Intel NUC 8th gen, which runs KSP2 at around 10 FPS when flying a plane and 20 in space. It is a lot less expensive, but since the framerate I experience is not great, this spec is not recommended.

3. An Intel NUC 11th gen. 24 FPS in the main menu and above 32 FPS in space. This is still not that great, but it is pretty cheap and thus can be used to play KSP2 with fairly low cost. I believe all you need is a computer that has roughly the sane specs. The optimization might not be as bad as you thought or people might tell you.

[Chilkoot]

PC gaming has become crazy expensive over the last 12-ish years.  It's outpaced inflation by 2x-3x.

Some real-world advice on a budget:  look at used parts.  There are a ton of used 3xxx-series Nvidia cards on the market now since many forms of mining have dried up.  Most mining rigs are under-volted and well-ventilated, and the harvested GPU's still have years of great service left in them.  You can often pick up a near-pristine 3070 for 1/2 or even 1/3 retail.  I've seen a lot of Intel 12700k's on quality Asus/Evga boards posted lately, as well.

Look for high-end names that have good thermal control and quality capacitors.  Quality used parts that were treated well are going to outlast low-end new parts, and you will get twice the bang for your hard-earned buck.  The used parts I would avoid are keyboards, mice, drives and possibly PSU's.  Get those new and with the full manufacturer's warranty.

 

[Dakitess]

Uh, even after the huge RTX 2XXX serie inflation, gaming rigs are far more affordable than they were, 12 yo, when it comes to FPS/Cost.

Nowaday a 750€ desktop PC will run 60FPS 1080P Max Settings or just one compromise or two, at most. And they will do so for a year or two.

Back in 2013, a 750€ rig would get you a GTX 660 that would barely hold 45 FPS in Medium 1080p. You would need a top of the line PC to get it without compromise, which was 1500-2000€.

Soooo nah, definitely, the ratio that include performance / visual / framerate / price is way better now, especially thanks to 4k that is carrying the whole challenge and allow us to profit from DLSS and so on.

[dragonart777]

looks meh we all been there dont sweet it. trust me  i have fallen my self in my time line a fue times.   but  as i am a intel fan  i also support amd.    and with your income i would look at amd products.  and before we go down this road.   please understand that amd is really good product and even used by high end gamers.    so lets not have a amd intel war bash in here.    price wise to get a system up and running that you can afford and still be up at the top lvl.  amd is where you wont to go.   intel is great and all. but you need a steady job or mommy and daddy credit card.    

 

[Vanamonde]

Could have sworn we already had a master thread for this sort of thing but since we apparently did not, this has been made into one.