Kerbal Space Program 2 now has more negative reveiews than the original game.

[Fullmetal Analyst]

43 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

Assuming there is such a mythical "dev buid,"

where do you think all the colony, multiplayer, interstellar stuff etc. that we have confirmedly seen in videos went? lol
they probably cut out a lot of stuff that was interwoven with all kinds of other stuff, and made some sort of frankenstein build, and thats likely whats causing many the problems we are seeing now

Edited March 6, 2023 by Fullmetal Analyst

[skogs]

All of these people review bombing with the excuse along the lines of "I expected more for $50" ... 

Clearly not a single one of those buffoons have been out to eat with a family of 4 lately.

If you're unhappy that is cool.  Either keep it to yourself or make meaningful contributions to the community [snip]

Edited March 7, 2023 by Vanamonde

[Kerbart]

1 hour ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

where do you think all the colony, multiplayer, interstellar stuff etc. that we have confirmedly seen in videos went? lol
they probably cut out a lot of stuff that was interwoven with all kinds of other stuff, and made some sort of frankenstein build, and thats likely whats causing many the problems we are seeing now

I thought it would be clear that the -quotes- "dev build" -quotes- mentioned would be a coherent unit, suitable for distribution, and not a hodgepodge of semi-working code with certain parts intended to be "do not play, testing only", etc. Surely there are several builds floating around. But one that's laden with all features and in a playable state? You are thinking that they are keeping the good one to themselves and instead dumping a buggy, worse version on paying customers? Why? That doesn't make sense at all.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Kerbart
neuropathy

[MarcAbaddon]

Being unhappy with what you get for the price is not review bombing. Opinions may vary (I did leave a cautiously positive review myself), but you do yourself a disservice by claiming people who leave negative reviews are dishonest.

Don't mistake what I am saying - there are definitely games that got review bombed, but that's usually done by people who have nothing to do with the game for some silly 'culture war' reasons.

 

Anyway, I think the theory that the problems are caused by removing parts in development is wishful thinking. There's too many systems affected that are pretty isolated - shifting AP/PE, fuel crossfeed bug and the savegame corruption load? Falling through terrain? Explosions caused by physicless parts? There's no good reason to believe those are due to removed parts of the game. 

The only relatively minor bug where I could possibly see this being the case is your trajectory going weird when escaping the Kerbol system.

[KSK]

3 hours ago, Moons said:

Yes its a game - and a game is a product. When you pay money for a product - do you have no expectations?

Sure, but not to the extent of ‘unleashing a dung storm the likes of which the world has never seen’, over a computer game.

In this case, if I was going into this cold, I would have expected something more akin to Dyson Sphere Program for a £45 Early Access. That is, missing some quality of life stuff that fans of the genre have learned to expect but otherwise playable and more or less fully featured to the point where more features are a bonus.

So yeah - I get the disappointment but I still think the hyperbole is dumb. 

I would also argue that in an age where an internet connection is practically mandatory to play computer games anyway, that there’s really no excuse to ‘go cold’ into an Early Access purchase, as opposed to a crowd funded game where you’re always going to be taking a risk.

But that’s a whole other discussion.

Edit: For context, I don’t yet own KSP 2, had no intention of buying a Sandbox only EA at any price and have mixed feelings about what I know about the rest of the game. Bits of it I like the sound of, bits of it I don’t, so I’ll almost certainly be depending on reviews to try and figure out whether the good bits outweigh the meh.

Edited March 6, 2023 by KSK

[MarcAbaddon]

Yup, fully agree. It's a game, getting all upset and threatening a 'dung storm' is silly. Let alone one 'which the world has never seen'.

But on the other side I feel the wild speculations about the bugs being due to removed features or the evil publisher forcing the devs to release a buggy product (after so many delays) and claiming that people writing that a negative review stating that they expected more from their 50$ is review bombing? Just as silly. As is discounting the value of 50 bucks for many people.

Edited March 6, 2023 by MarcAbaddon

[TLTay]

Shocking it's not more negative. I've been scrubbing through the reviews, and it looks like most of the positive ones are about what they expect it to be in the future. 

Almost none of the positive reviews are about what they just bought and played. Most are just about signalling loyalty and hoping it will get better. 

You are doing a disservice to people by giving a game positive reviews out of hope or loyalty. Someone who might not know better might make a poor choice based on your cumulative reviews. 

DO review: The game you just downloaded and played.

DO NOT review: Your hope for future developments, your support for the devs, your love of the franchise.

[Lisias]

1 hour ago, skogs said:

All of these people review bombing with the excuse along the lines of "I expected more for $50" ... 

Clearly not a single one of those buffoons have been out to eat with a family of 4 lately.

If you're unhappy that is cool.  Either keep it to yourself or make meaningful contributions to the community instead of being toxic twits.

Today marks 10 years since the launch of SimCity 2013. A hell of interesting concept on doing SimCity in multiplayer. Problem, they made the game online only and didn't had the servers to serve everybody that bough the game.

That buffoons trashed the game in thousands, while EA was rushing into expanding the servers anyway they could - but not fast enough.

The game flopped, it was the end of the SimCity franchise.

It's not wise to call buffoons the people you are willing to get money from. You are free to disagree with them, but definitively you can't expect to call them "buffoons" and still be able to convince them on giving money to you.

[Moons]

2 hours ago, skogs said:

All of these people review bombing with the excuse along the lines of "I expected more for $50" ... 

Clearly not a single one of those buffoons have been out to eat with a family of 4 lately.

If you're unhappy that is cool.  Either keep it to yourself or make meaningful contributions to the community instead of being toxic twits.

You shouldnt use terms if you dont know the meaning.

Also what are you even talking about "if your unhappy keep it to yourself or say something positive"?

The only one toxic seems to be yourself calling people unhappy voicing their opinions "toxic twits" ...

2 hours ago, KSK said:

Sure, but not to the extent of ‘unleashing a dung storm the likes of which the world has never seen’, over a computer game.

In this case, if I was going into this cold, I would have expected something more akin to Dyson Sphere Program for a £45 Early Access. That is, missing some quality of life stuff that fans of the genre have learned to expect but otherwise playable and more or less fully featured to the point where more features are a bonus.

So yeah - I get the disappointment but I still think the hyperbole is dumb. 

I would also argue that in an age where an internet connection is practically mandatory to play computer games anyway, that there’s really no excuse to ‘go cold’ into an Early Access purchase, as opposed to a crowd funded game where you’re always going to be taking a risk.

But that’s a whole other discussion.

Edit: For context, I don’t yet own KSP 2, had no intention of buying a Sandbox only EA at any price and have mixed feelings about what I know about the rest of the game. Bits of it I like the sound of, bits of it I don’t, so I’ll almost certainly be depending on reviews to try and figure out whether the good bits outweigh the meh.

I took that for the regular exaggeration in internet  discussions - like people boycotting a game by writing that they boycott it while pre-ordering it and playing it on release

I get what you mean - havent bought it yet either. Just feels like an awful release - the price and the state of the game feels like a punch below the belt by a brand i actually liked ...

1 hour ago, TLTay said:

Shocking it's not more negative. I've been scrubbing through the reviews, and it looks like most of the positive ones are about what they expect it to be in the future. 

Almost none of the positive reviews are about what they just bought and played. Most are just about signalling loyalty and hoping it will get better. 

You are doing a disservice to people by giving a game positive reviews out of hope or loyalty. Someone who might not know better might make a poor choice based on your cumulative reviews. 

DO review: The game you just downloaded and played.

DO NOT review: Your hope for future developments, your support for the devs, your love of the franchise.

Yes and i also think the main issue is people dont even seem to understand what they buy when they buy EA. Most of them seem to think they did a pre-order when in reality the contract pretty much is that you pay for the version as it is at the time of purchase with no rights to any further content/updates.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Moons

[skogs]

2 hours ago, MarcAbaddon said:

... but you do yourself a disservice by claiming people who leave negative reviews are dishonest...

I said no such thing. 

I directly imply that people still think $50 is a lot of money and they should get some long term value that is bug free ... Go to taco bell ... I assure you it is neither bug free nor long term.

24 minutes ago, Moons said:

You shouldnt use terms if you dont know the meaning.

I know precisely the words I meant.  I'm sorry you feel upset about it. Not sure which group you're in, but arguing on the internet is definitely going to put you in a category. 
Again ... for the hearing impaired:  Many people complain because they think they should get great value for $50.  THOSE individuals ... should go and fill their gas tank for a reality check.

The feedback and bugs are not wrong.  The complaining and butt pain expressed about $50 is.  Some airlines charge you for the bag you're carrying. Get a grip.

[TLTay]

2 hours ago, skogs said:

If you're unhappy that is cool.  Either keep it to yourself or make meaningful contributions to the community [snip]

No.

2 hours ago, skogs said:

or make meaningful contributions to the community

The ones that should be making meaningful contributions to the community is/are the studio/publisher. They should contribute a game worth 50 bucks.

2 hours ago, skogs said:

All of these people review bombing with the excuse along the lines of "I expected more for $50" ... 

Clearly not a single one of those buffoons have been out to eat with a family of 4 lately.

Fam, I do weekly. This has been like waiting 3 hours for your meal, with the manager coming out multiple times to tell you "it'll be out soon," just to get served an undercooked side dish, immediately charged full price, with promise that the rest of your order will be on your plate... sometime... maybe tonight?

[Moons]

40 minutes ago, skogs said:

I said no such thing. 

I directly imply that people still think $50 is a lot of money and they should get some long term value that is bug free ... Go to taco bell ... I assure you it is neither bug free nor long term.

I know precisely the words I meant.  I'm sorry you feel upset about it. Not sure which group you're in, but arguing on the internet is definitely going to put you in a category. 
Again ... for the hearing impaired:  Many people complain because they think they should get great value for $50.  THOSE individuals ... should go and fill their gas tank for a reality check.

The feedback and bugs are not wrong.  The complaining and butt pain expressed about $50 is.  Some airlines charge you for the bag you're carrying. Get a grip.

50 Dollars still is a lot of money to many people - its enough to buy food for a week if you cook yourself. Sometimes i wonder if people that write something like that even have to work for their own money. I mean even if i can afford to to buy something for 50 Dollars - like probably most people - doesnt mean i wont expect something for it ...

No you definitely dont know the words you are using - i dont feel anything about that - i just pointed out that you obviously used a term without knowing the meaning. Your next argument makes no sense aswell - so because XY costs X aswell the price-performance ratio of something else is not to be talked about?

Edited March 7, 2023 by Moons

[Vanamonde]

Back off the personal remarks, please. 

[softweir]

Comparing Steam reviews of KSP 1 and KSP 2 isn't comparing like with like. Something that gets overlooked is that KSP 1 was a finished, mature product before it ever hit Steam, so the reviews on Steam are all those for a finished, mature product, not one in early access! It got a lot of tweaks and fixes for the low-level bugs that remained and a couple of DLCs, but that awkward "it doesn't work it's crap" stage was long gone before the first Steam review happened. If KSP 1 had been released as EA on Steam then I am sure the reviews would have been excoriating! In the early days KSP was as flaky as hell, and underwent several massive rewrites before it became anywhere near stable.

What will be interesting is to see how those two very different review sets compare once KSP 2 is released as "finished". With a bit of luck the reviews will be mostly positive - at least from those players who are the target audience for KSP.

[RocketRockington]

45 minutes ago, softweir said:

Comparing Steam reviews of KSP 1 and KSP 2 isn't comparing like with like. Something that gets overlooked is that KSP 1 was a finished, mature product before it ever hit Steam, so the reviews on Steam are all those for a finished, mature product, not one in early access!

So why didn't they release a finished, mature product?  KSP1 didn't go onto Steam right out of the gate - it instead was released as a free demo.   So yes, it got more time (though.. actually less time, since it was only in dev for 4 years when it got a steam release, not 6) to fix its bugs before asking the general public to pay for it.

Also lots of games that release in EA get pretty good reviews.  Sons of the Forest is currently sitting at 81%, just got release to EA.  And the KSP community is far more positive than the Forest community.  Come up with a better excuse than 'it's EA' when its clear that even EA expectations were missed with KSP2's release.

[almagnus1]

I'm part of that negative review swarm, and I'll flip my negative review to a positive one once KSP2 is actualy worthy of a positive review.

But to do that, the floppy rockets, kraken, and control issues all need to go away along with having ALL of the content from KSP1 (including ALL the parts from Breaking Ground and Making History) .  Until those conditions are met, it's gonna stay as a negative review.  KSP2 feels worse to play than KSP1 of 2013 did.

[Fullmetal Analyst]

6 hours ago, Kerbart said:

But one that's laden with all features and in a playable state? You are thinking that they are keeping the good one to themselves and instead dumping a buggy, worse version on paying customers? Why? That doesn't make sense at all.

the devs literally said they were having fun playing multiplayer together, its hard to imagine how that would work out with the build we got, not even the singleplayer works properly.

6 hours ago, skogs said:

Clearly not a single one of those buffoons have been out to eat with a family of 4 lately.

not everyone lives in UK etc.

[Fullmetal Analyst]

3 hours ago, softweir said:

Something that gets overlooked is that KSP 1 was a finished, mature product before it ever hit Steam, so the reviews on Steam are all those for a finished, mature product, not one in early access!

you do realize that ksp1 released in EA too and was full of bugs, right?
the guy at least had the decency to make the game playable before releasing it, and didnt charge people 50$ for his incompetence.

[mcwaffles2003]

A fun reminder of 2022 GOTYs launch

https://www.pcgamer.com/despite-critical-acclaim-elden-ring-is-currently-mixed-on-steam/

Quote

Despite critical acclaim, Elden Ring is currently 'mixed' on Steam

By Mollie Taylor

 last updated February 25, 2022

"Elden Ring? More like stuttering."

Quote

Despite receiving critical acclaim and cementing itself one of the highest-rated games of all time, Elden Ring has been having a rough time on Steam. The game is currently sitting at a mixed rating(opens in new tab) with 60% of its 19,000 user reviews being positive.

 

It's all down to the squiffy performance PC players have been dealing with. It's something Tyler also grappled with in his Elden Ring review(opens in new tab), though the hopes were that a day one patch(opens in new tab) would fix the issues. While it did squash some of the early build's major bugs, players are still experiencing major framerate drops, stuttering, crashes and screen tearing.(opens in new tab)

 

Complaints about poor optimisation are happening across both positive and negative reviews, with one Steam review(opens in new tab) summarising it as "Elden Ring runs like liquid ass," while another review (opens in new tab)called it a "typical FromSoftware PC port." Players also lamented the addition of Easy Anti-Cheat which makes modding fixes for these things more difficult.

But you know, I think this whole thing with KSP2 is completely unique and a game with a diehard community that suddenly hit the public eye like it never existed before having performance issues so bad it tanked the rating on steam to "mixed" never happened before.

[regex]

11 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

A fun reminder of 2022 GOTYs launch

Took them a while to fix that bug too. The game still sometimes freezes for a couple seconds for me, which is admittedly better than that bug (it'd get super framey and then all of a sudden speed up dramatically) but can still be annoying.

[Superfluous J]

3 hours ago, RocketRockington said:

So why didn't they release a finished, mature product?

Until someone with inside information on Take Two or Intercept's finances and schedules says otherwise, I'm going to assume that the parent company demanded they release what they have at the given date for the given price with no excuses accepted and the only other alternative being the closing down of production on the game and the members of the team being either fired or moved to other projects.

So, they could release an unfinihsed, immature product with the hopes of making it better over (even more) time, or toss it all in the bin and pretend KSP2 never happened.

I don't know which of those you'd prefer.

[mcwaffles2003]

14 minutes ago, regex said:

Took them a while to fix that bug too. The game still sometimes freezes for a couple seconds for me, which is admittedly better than that bug (it'd get super framey and then all of a sudden speed up dramatically) but can still be annoying.

I'd add on too that FPS matters far more in ER than KSP 2.

Its just funny that people treat this kind of thing like its unprecedented when its literally been the case for what feels like the majority of every major launch of a new IP for like 7 years. I think it's just the nature of the beast at this point too, games are just really complex now and no one wants to dev a game for 8 years before they launch, not only because you want to start making money, but after 8 years a lot of new technologies will have come out and what would have been a novel game would instead release as dated tech wise and old looking

[Fullmetal Analyst]

1 hour ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

Despite critical acclaim, Elden Ring is currently 'mixed' on Steam

excuse me?

[mcwaffles2003]

Just now, Fullmetal Analyst said:

excuse me?

Look at the release date then the date of the article...

Also thank you for that reaction as it proves my point

[Fullmetal Analyst]

11 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

Also thank you for that reaction as it proves my point

uhh...

the main problem with elden ring was that it was stuttering here and there.

ksp2 is completely broken.

 

where exactly are u drawing the connection here?

if elden ring was in the same state as ksp2, basically u would never get past the tutorial area because of all the bugs.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Fullmetal Analyst