Procedural wings are ok but don't replace "normal" wings from KSP 1

[s_gamer101]

Edit: For clarification: I do not want the procedural wings to be replaced, I just want other wings in addition to them

Yes, the procedural wings have some potential, but for me they can't replace the KSP 1 wings. They are supposed to give creative freedom to the player, but they are limiting in their own way. And in fact, it really ruins the fun of building stuff with wings for me.

• I want wing connectors like the Wing Connector Type A, they were essential part of many beautifuly KSP 1 crafts that I've seen or even built myself. Wing connectors could be used for so much more than just to generate lift.
• They all have a wing profile that looks like a low-speed airfoil that isn't made for supersonic planes or even airliners (see below) and it bothers me a lot. It is just not fitting for like 90% of the stuff that players will build
• I just can't make something that looks like the Big-S Delta Wing from KSP 1
• For the two reasons mentioned above, space shuttle replicas in KSP 2 tend to look ugly in my opinion
• When I needed, as an example, delta wings, I was able to just grab some delta wings in KSP 1. Now I have to grab some procedural default-wings mess with the settings to turn them into delta wings

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by s_gamer101

[Lyneira]

I voted "I don't really care" for question 2 but I think the answers are flawed because my actual opinion is a strong "No" to reintroducing an explosion of wing parts.

I'm with you on the issues you quoted, but I think these can be solved with UI/UX improvements to the existing procedural wing system.

• Wing connectors: Use a stabilizer configured to be rectangular, disable the control surface if you don't want one.
• Wing profile looking like low speed airfoil: For now you'll have to live with tuning the thickness, setting it to minimum will look decent enough for high speed planes and save you some mass. Longer term, extend procwings to allow choosing a few common foil shapes. Include a "cuboid" option for those cases where you just want a big flat panel, like the old Wing connectors.
• Easily accessible delta wings: Better UI to tune the wing parameters than sliders, allow configuring your favorite wing settings as presets that you can easily load up. Also benefits the Wing Connectors issue above.

And a couple suggestions of my own for improvement of procwings:

• Wing root/tip snapping: When attaching a wing to another wing's wingtip, the child wing root should snap to the exact same location and size as the parent wingtip. Hold alt to disable snapping.
• Attached parts move with changing wing shape: When changing the shape of a main wing, attached parts and other wings (especially auto snapped wings as the previous suggestion) should move with the new wing shape so you don't end up with stuff attached in illogical places or worse, floating in mid-air.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Lyneira
Refine suggestion

[cocoscacao]

Same as what @Lyneira said. We need an option for a resounding no.

[s_gamer101]

I can't edit the poll after people have already voted (which makes sense of course)

24 minutes ago, cocoscacao said:

We need an option for a resounding no.

28 minutes ago, Lyneira said:

I'm with you on the issues you quoted, but I think these can be solved with UI/UX improvements to the existing procedural wing system.

Now after reading your suggestions I must admit, with those UI imprevements the procedural wings might indeed become a suitable replacement for the old wings and I haven't thought of that before.

[s_gamer101]

Also the reason I didn't put a "no" option in the poll was that I didn't realize that there'd also be negative aspects to adding new parts (I was like "When nothing is removed, why should anyone be against it?") so I didn't expect anyone to be strictly against it, which was a mistake, as I realized now.

Edited April 24, 2023 by s_gamer101

[cocoscacao]

2 hours ago, s_gamer101 said:

I can't edit the poll after people have already voted (which makes sense of course)

Yeah, I know. I've made a similar mistake at one of my polls.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

5 hours ago, s_gamer101 said:

I can't edit the poll after people have already voted

You could request this be shut down / merged into a new poll framed the way you prefer it.

I've had to do that before when I thought I'd put together a genius poll, only to discover it was actually 'jenius'.

[pandaman]

I think the procedural wings are a major improvement.  I see no point, or benefit, to adding numerous extra parts by adding fixed sizes.

Mind you, some way of adding fuel capacity would be very welcome.

[PDCWolf]

They method of opening up a huge window of samey-named parts to imprecisely move some sliders is the worst approach to procedural parts possible. Add to that the fact that the airfoil shape is completely disconnected from anything and limits creativity, and yeah, I understand why your reaction is like this.

I do believe, however, that if they ever bothering making the UI human-readable, proc wings can be much better. Maybe just wireframe the wing and show some vertex nodes for root and tip that we can move like we would a part?

[pandaman]

1 hour ago, PDCWolf said:

They method of opening up a huge window of samey-named parts to imprecisely move some sliders is the worst approach to procedural parts possible.

Not disputing that.  It's a real pain.

But that's not a problem with the parts.

[Heretic391]

I'd like to see the ability to create procedural curved wings rather than just straight i.e the AVT1 Winglet from KSP 1. That way I don't need to have multiple wings slapped on each other to get a 'similar' curve.

Not sure how challenging that is to implement. 

[regex]

Quote

2. Do you want KSP-1-Style wing parts to be added to KSP 2 as an addition to the new procedural wings?

No.

[Dantheollie]

4 minutes ago, Heretic391 said:

I'd like to see the ability to create procedural curved wings rather than just straight i.e the AVT1 Winglet from KSP 1. That way I don't need to have multiple wings slapped on each other to get a 'similar' curve.

This would practically solve all my issues with wings in KSP2. There would no longer be a need to add any wing parts, the basic three sizes in the game would suffice.

Man, I wish your suggestion wasn't just a suggestion 

 

[Superfluous J]

The ONLY thing I didn't like about the Procedural Wings mod for KSP1 was that there wasn't a hud-style interface like how the in-game gizmos worked for translation and rotation. Why should I have to use a gui window to resize the wing when it could instead be designed to have arrows in the "world" of the VAB to click and drag? The only use for a gui would be to enter exact numbers for things.

I was a bit disheartened when I saw that the GUI for KSP2 pretty much mimicked that UI idea.

That said (and without having touched wings (or anything else) in KSP2, my vote would also have been a resounding NO. Useless redundant parts (and the time spent making and balancing them) should not be added to the game.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Superfluous J

[Lyneira]

5 hours ago, Heretic391 said:

I'd like to see the ability to create procedural curved wings rather than just straight i.e the AVT1 Winglet from KSP 1. That way I don't need to have multiple wings slapped on each other to get a 'similar' curve.

Not sure how challenging that is to implement. 

Multiple wing shape segments in one wing part would be great. If that's not feasible, at least having the option to make wing parts snap and match their tip/root size to each other will help ease this a bit.

Another suggestion for procwings: A way to resize the wing in 2 dimensions while keeping the same aspect ratio and shape. Right now, when you're happy with a wing shape but you realize that you need more (or less) wing area, you have to do the following steps:

• increase the wing span
• Increase root length
• increase tip length
• adjust wing angle to approximate what you had
• Reposition everything that was already attached to the wing

It would make plane building so much smoother if this process could be condensed down to just a gizmo or slider to scale the wing. It doesn't need to scale it up in 3 dimensions, just dynamically calculate the existing wing parameters to maintain the same shape. If any one of them would exceed a limit for the wing part, don't let the wing scale up to that size.

[s_gamer101]

With all the good stuff added to the current procedural wings that you guys are suggesting, I think I'd really like them and not even miss the old KSP 1 wings anymore