A Taste of Science

[Alexoff]

8 minutes ago, Fluke said:

Because that's not a WIP image at all right? Or would you rather see nothing then complain about that too?

And there is nothing more about heating. Oh yeah, I forgot - not real gameplay, they had to show something - they showed.

[Spicat]

57 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

You're pretty new here but you do realize that many people, myself included and I HUNTED for anything KSP2 related for the last 3 years, have never seen this? Where'd you pull that from all of a sudden

I'm active on the discord since it opened, and one day (some months ago) a random person posted this video and I saved it since then (because it has  only 200 views).

[theonegalen]

56 minutes ago, regex said:

I just want to make clear to you (and whoever else on the Intercept team is reading) that I am NOT disappointed in the game so far, I just don't have to couch my words in a ... diplomatic manner as part of my job. While it is possible to disappoint me with future updates, especially with poorly thought-out or tacked-on mechanics, I'm here for the long run. Who cares if I'm not booting up the game every day, that's not the point. I want to see what you people do with this game. It's a very promising, if bumpy, start.

regex is a person of taste and wisdom and I agree with them 100%

[Alexoff]

Looking at the scientific detail, I remembered this mod, I flew quite a lot with it on the "new horizons".

 

[RocketRockington]

1 hour ago, FlazeTheDragon said:

New approach to science looks very exciting, i always found the old way a bit boring.

The model looks awesome  Tho i hope we also have much larger sciency stuff that is more of a hassle to transport xD

This isn't necessarily a new way to approach science.  It could still be the same way, for all we know. It's just a part you slap on a rocketz having tons of extra deedly bobs that animate out of it doesn't meaningfully change that.  Cramming more instruments into one model doesn't matter if there are just as many different science parts.  And if there are only 2-3 different science parts, which does streamline things, it only does so in a :dumbing it all down's way.

 

Tbh I don't like this approach either.  It's far less Lego and much more pre built.  I can't make a variety of different looking probes with that, everything goes exactly one way.  

 

3 hours ago, Sylvi Fisthaug said:

But why oh why, why do you find the need to just post this here? This does not give any meaningful content to the forum. 

There are many posts like that one on this thread, or in the forum.  Posts with little to add to the discussion,  The first post in the thread was just the word 'thanks'.  It's a non transitive argument to equate posts that don't like KSP2 with posts that are low content.

[snip]

Edited May 12, 2023 by RocketRockington
Redacted by moderator

[PDCWolf]

3 hours ago, Fluke said:

Because that's not a WIP image at all right? Or would you rather see nothing then complain about that too?

Now it's really gonna be a surprise when it comes out looking like that.

WIP or not, feedback is good. In fact, WIP assets are exactly the ones that better can employ feedback.

3 hours ago, Sylvi Fisthaug said:

Four years

Why do we work under the assumption that the game magically spawned ready to be announced as a full release in 2019? I can understand that it looks like it wasn't work on for more than 3/4 years, but we have no proof of that. However we do have proof they intended a full release 4 years ago.

3 hours ago, Sylvi Fisthaug said:

this is close to ten years of game development and modding

Raymarched volumetric clouds came out this year, and the Dev has been working on them for no more than a year, and I'll take the risk and say barely a couple months even. TUFX released 2020, 3 years ago.

3 hours ago, Sylvi Fisthaug said:

KSP2 which is on par

Not even close, hardly arguable. Much less when you consider performance.

3 hours ago, Strawberry said:

It's important to note that it's unclear if this code is just for colonies. It has the most ties to colonies, but there's some ties to things we think are normal parts. It probably applies to both systems as we know they both have a lot of code overlap. Personally, even if this is just for colonies I like this, I think heat would be a really good constraint for colony construction and its really nice to see that that scope is intended. Heating not just being "these parts add in x, these parts remove x", but instead a more in depth system that takes into account the environment more is great. 

Seems I'll have to take a look myself. Any keywords I could use to speed the research up? Already have the tools.

[Strawberry]

4 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

Seems I'll have to take a look myself. Any keywords I could use to speed the research up? Already have the tools.

Heatsink is a big one

[RobHeffo]

@Nate Simpson Looking great, but I feel the Jeb/Val/Tim ordering of the Challenges needs to be reversed.

Everyone KNOWS that Jebediah Kerman is the GOAT amongst Kerbals, so it makes sense the hardest challenge of all would be Jeb level!

Also maybe an in-game integration to kspbuilds.com would be great, being able to look up, download, and upload builds right from the game!

[PDCWolf]

7 minutes ago, Strawberry said:

Heatsink is a big one

My bet is we'll find that attached to radiators when they come out, a lot of the related... names give me that hint. I did however find part heating and heatshield related stuff, though nothing as deep as the skin/core system we had in KSP1. However, that might just not yet be in the game.

I've also found out that the stuff dug out on the "leak" has been greatly overstated.

[Strawberry]

8 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

My bet is we'll find that attached to radiators when they come out, a lot of the related... names give me that hint. I did however find part heating and heatshield related stuff, though nothing as deep as the skin/core system we had in KSP1. However, that might just not yet be in the game.

I've also found out that the stuff dug out on the "leak" has been greatly overstated.

The vast majority of it is traces (and its likely some of those traces are out of date), they definitely got rid of a lot of the core code involved. I don't think you could get the code already in game to work for heating, but I assume since they have debug tools for it, they had code for a working (albeit very poorly) version at release. The exciting thing for me is that Ive wanted colonies to have to deal with heat management and if that's a feature then that would be incredible.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Strawberry

[RocketRockington]

Is anyone else surprised that it seems they're working on science assets right now, btw?  It did me.

  As negative as I have been about the game - for good reasons to me - even I thought they'd have the assets done already, and would have had for a while.  I assumed most of the massive issues with the delays were with technical challenges and poor scheduling around them, as demonstrated by the build.  But that, given the wealth of bullshots created, that the artists had at least thier end of the project well in hand, and the assets and design would have been ready to go ages ago.  So either they redesigned recently and found they needed new parts, or they're behind on art as well as engineering.

[Strawberry]

Just now, RocketRockington said:

Is anyone else surprised that it seems they're working on science assets right now, btw?  It did me.

  As negative as I have been about the game - for good reasons to me - even I thought they'd have the assets done already, and would have had for a while.  I assumed most of the massive issues with the delays were with technical challenges and poor scheduling around them, as demonstrated by the build.  But that, given the wealth of bullshots created, that the artists had at least thier end of the project well in hand, and the assets and design would have been ready to go ages ago.  So either they redesigned recently and found they needed new parts, or they're behind on art as well as engineering.

I mean just because we're seeing it now doesn't mean this thing is new. Considering this thing seems to share a lot of assets with a part we saw in 2020 , heavily implies to me that this part was likely made around the same time. 

[RocketRockington]

3 hours ago, Strawberry said:

I mean just because we're seeing it now doesn't mean this thing is new. Considering this thing seems to share a lot of assets with a part we saw in 2020 , heavily implies to me that this part was likely made around the same time. 

Chris Adderley, the person cited as the designer, didn't start working AS a designer at Intercept till 8 months ago - and didn't join intercept until 14 months ago, when they started as a concept artist (I guess they needed systems designers more than concept artists?   Weird leap).   

So... if that's the designer, the part is at most 8 months old.  Maybe he's counting the 'designer' as having done the concept design - and that still doesn't make it that much further back.    Definitely nothing related to 2020.   The modller on the part cited hasn't been at Intercept that long either.

I think my rule of 'the most pessimistic interpretation of how things work at Intercept is not pessimistic enough' keeps being proven right.

Edited May 13, 2023 by RocketRockington

[Well]

I appreciate the realism of these parts.  Looking forward to the update 

It’s nice to see, because even if the Kerbals have a cartoon side. I think we all like to reproduce real missions, even for fictional missions I think it’s good that players can see correspondence with real scientifque experience, KSP is fun but if it can also educate and get players interested in science and the real mission is even better. 

[stephensmat]

3 hours ago, RocketRockington said:

Is anyone else surprised that it seems they're working on science assets right now, btw?  It did me.

We know they have multiple teams. Some working optimisation, some working bug fixes, some working on updates.

Also, the bug fixes are huge lists. Three or four patches, then the next step on the Timeline? Sounds fantastic to me.

[LoSBoL]

Nice update, keep calm and carry on. The only thing it needs is time, and time will heal all wounds.

[Alexoff]

3 hours ago, stephensmat said:

We know they have multiple teams. Some working optimisation, some working bug fixes, some working on updates.

And some team makes parts for science right now. Perhaps soon some team will start doing and testing this science.

[Nicrose]

Thanks for the update! Definitely feels good to hear that you guys are not a only aware of the bugs but the extent as well. This felt much more genuine and down to earth. I’m very excited for 1.0 and do believe it will be great, the only question is when. I am hopeful for this next update to give us more to do in the game as it stands and hopefully fix a few of the major game breaking bugs. The only negative I felt personally was the announcement to an announcement announcement. I have been checking Twitter and the forums every day for any shred of communication and then got so excited to see there was info on science only to find out that next week we will find out how long we have to wait before actually getting information. I think I’d rather hear things like “we have been working effortlessly on x but ran into a snag causing y and z” or even “science has been taking a while because of x, y, and z” or even just knowing what bugs you are prioritizing. Idk, I understand it’s a difficult tightrope walk, especially with some in this community, but it feels really bad to be this dedicated to a game while getting let down every time I look for more info. Overall though I feel this post is going in a better direction than the past few! 

[cocoscacao]

48 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

And some team makes parts for science right now

Check one of the earlies dev videos on youtube (forgot which one exactly). You'll see that new rover cockpit in it. That part has been in game for 3 years now, yet it still isn't completed (missing interior). I don't think they're making them just now from scratch. 

[Alexoff]

1 minute ago, cocoscacao said:

Check one of the earlies dev videos on youtube (forgot which one exactly). You'll see that new rover cockpit in it. That part has been in game for 3 years now, yet it still isn't completed (missing interior). I don't think they're making them just now from scratch. 

I remember the first time I realized that something terrible had happened to the development of the game, when in the fall of 2020 we were shown how the developer creates a model of a kerbal. Apparently, this happened more than once.

[Majorjim!]

15 hours ago, regex said:

That's a much more interesting part than what I was expecting; I think Squad really scarred me with crap like the barn and the dumb "junkyard" aesthetic. You all are doing a great job and clearly I should be realigning my thoughts on the future of this game.

Time will tell if this professional game making studio can create anything even close to the game that KSP1 currently is. 

[The Aziz]

Wow, a development that starts with ideas, goes through many prototypes until it sets on a certain design, finetunes it and then makes it ready for release? What a novelty!

[Majorjim!]

14 hours ago, regex said:

I'm not really changing my mind about "the game", I was already onboard for that and interested in seeing how the game develops.

What I am changing my thoughts about are the aesthetic Squad laid out and whether this team is taking it forward. Intercept is taking a departure from kerbals as mere thrill-seeking idiots with zero self-preservation as portrayed by so much media from the Squad days into what they were actually described as back in the day "overly-enthusiastic but technically competent". Now we see this description as artistic representation play out; instead of 55 gallon drums as fuel tanks we get technically competent parts that look like a professional built them. Even if they take outrageous shapes they look competent. This science part implies the overly-enthusiastic nature of kerbals-as-stated through the multitude of instruments crammed into one package, but it also looks like a damn science instrument.

I never trusted Squad to deliver because they didn't seem to have a coherent plan or aesthetic (and the game really shows this), but Intercept have a pretty clear vision from what I can see. Plus, they've given us a roadmap (albeit barebones, but it is a roadmap nonetheless! Someone made a damn plan!)

It’s almost as if KSP1 was not made by experienced game developers.. 

13 hours ago, regex said:

I just want to make clear to you (and whoever else on the Intercept team is reading) that I am NOT disappointed in the game so far, I just don't have to couch my words in a ... diplomatic manner as part of my job. While it is possible to disappoint me with future updates, especially with poorly thought-out or tacked-on mechanics, I'm here for the long run. Who cares if I'm not booting up the game every day, that's not the point. I want to see what you people do with this game. It's a very promising, if bumpy, start.

What’s promising about it exactly? After all that was said from the devs before the EA kick in the nuts and the current state of the game? 

[Alexoff]

15 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Wow, a development that starts with ideas, goes through many prototypes until it sets on a certain design, finetunes it and then makes it ready for release? What a novelty!

Have you ever seen Dmagic Science mod? It seems to me that the design was taken from there. Most likely the mod is based on real prototypes, but nevertheless

[Spicat]

36 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

Have you ever seen Dmagic Science mod? It seems to me that the design was taken from there. Most likely the mod is based on real prototypes, but nevertheless

Yes you're right on the "based on real prototypes", with some google I found where each thing came from (although I could be wrong for some things):

For the magnetometer (https://www.goes-r.gov/spacesegment/mag.html and some other satellite like voyager have one):

The red thing is probably this (https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/ames/the-near-infrared-volatiles-spectrometer-system-nirvss):

And the antennas are probably something like the Cassini RPWS Antenna (https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/missions/cassini/mission/spacecraft/cassini-orbiter/radio-and-plasma-wave-science/):

Like the JWST inspiration science part I posted earlier, they are not inspired by mods but by real life instruments which obviously mods also tend to replicate.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Spicat