A tweet shared today by the team.

[Socraticat]

3 minutes ago, moeggz said:

no news this week so I guess this tweet was our dev update for the week

So bummed. As much as I feel like I'm being massaged when we get "Feature Updates" instead of news on Bugs and Performance, I still enjoy the massage. I like to see the frilly stuff they try to distract with. A photo of someone taking a photo is neat, but it's not news. We know they've been working on thermals.

My hope, or what some may see as naive optimism, is that the Devs are fully aware that the only thing that will fix the fiasco is delivering in a big way. Like, why come out and tell people again that the orbital decay bug from 0.1.0.0 is still a huge problem? The next update is going to be awesome... It has to be and they know it, which is why they settled for such an effortless metapost about thermals- because they don't want to come out with anything else until they have something to show that they can deliver what's been promised.

The cynic in me feels differently. If they come out with Thermals before fixing orbital decay I'll be completely dissapointed. After having watched the launch since February I'm afraid they might use thermals as a distraction to a far bigger problem- Every bug that currently exists has the potential to take as long as orbital decay... and that's just part of the basic gameplay loop.

They put out new parts and there's now new bugs on top of the previous ones... I can't keep track of them anymore and I feel like the same is true for the bug tracking on the forum.

[Kerbart]

23 hours ago, KerbolExplorer said:

6 months to implement a heat effect.

Damn

It's not in production yet. So the actual number will be more like 12-18 months.

[Alexoff]

2 hours ago, Wheehaw Kerman said:

bunch of other stuff CORRECTLY (we hope)

What stuff? Several parts? Or did I miss something?

[Superfluous J]

3 hours ago, Lettuce said:

KSP1 had a team of 6 and had 1.0 release 5 years after the start of development. Development for KSP2 started 5 years ago with a team of roughly 20-30 and we're nowhere near KSP1 in terms of stability at 1.0, KSP2 is just shinier.

It's almost like they're different enough that you can't reliably compare them.

[Lettuce]

22 minutes ago, Superfluous J said:

It's almost like they're different enough that you can't reliably compare them.

Please tell me how different they are.

[moeggz]

11 minutes ago, Lettuce said:

Please tell me how different they are.

In my eyes one is a sequel with more funding, more developers with more experience and yet somehow ended up with less features and more bugs after a longer development time. 
 

And the community is now expected to be excited by a teaser for a a trailer for a feature that should’ve been in the game day one and was promised to come after a “brief window” after launch.

[Meecrob]

I apologize in advance for not reading the whole thread, but I am bursting at the seams to say this; Does anyone else think that maybe Nate Simpson does not know what KSP is? I cannot help but shake the feeling that he thinks landing on the Mun and making an explosion is the end goal when the rest of us are trying to do a grand tour. This is not meant to be a takedown...deep in my heart I believe he was trying to do his best, but sometimes people are out of their depth, promoted beyond their abilities. The real people I am upset with are the people higher up than him that did not see the limits of his ability. I believe he would be a great member of the KSP2 team, just not the leader.

Please tell me how I am wrong, I genuinely wish to be wrong on this.

[DunaManiac]

15 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

It's almost like they're different enough that you can't reliably compare them.

If you're talking about the development team, you're correct. KSP1 is an indy game produced by non game developers from 2011 and KSP2 is a game published by a major studio with a much larger team of professional developers. KSP1 was able to achieve relative stability at 1.3.1 (updates afterward nonwithstanding) after about 6 years of development. KSP2, if we assume that they began in 2017, has been in development for the same time and comes out in a similar state to KSP1 was in perhaps 0.22 but with a shiny coat of very, very laggy paint. One can claim "Take Two made them restart!" but ultimately that's just a hypothesis that isn't supported by any evidence.

If you're talking about the game - you're wrong. If you compare them, right now, KSP1 and 2 are fundamentally the same game. Ultimately, none of the core features of KSP1 were reimagined in a significant way. The physics are the same, the lego approach to parts was carried over (for the most part), many of the parts are freshened versions of the ones from KSP1, part assemblies for the most part have the same physics (except far wobblier and more unreliable than KSP1 in it's current state). Others, like the UI, the "parts manager," the various QOL improvements were simply reimaginings of KSP1's system. This isn't criticism of KSP2, it's a design choice by the developers, and a perfectly logical one. However, if we simply look at the fundamentals of KSP2 it simply should not have taken six years to replicate what KSP1 had at a similar point in development, let alone create a worse version of it.

The new heating system is a step in the right direction - but I hope that they are simply stating what they already had conceptually before release. Say what you will about features, graphics, everything, but after 6 years the conceptuals should be rock solid. If they're relitigating this only in the past few months, that, in my opinion, is a very troubling sign.

Edited August 5, 2023 by DunaManiac

[PDCWolf]

11 hours ago, Alexoff said:

In the form of screenshots on Twitter?

Nah, my intuition genuinely tells me that whatever they have for science isn't more than 2 months away.

6 hours ago, Wheehaw Kerman said:

Six months to implement a heat effect and a bunch of other stuff CORRECTLY (we hope).

They’ll get it right eventually.

There's 2 truths your post ignores: Time is a finite resource, in all of its aspects, AND, we have no idea if this image shows literally anything apart from GFX, or if they really plan to release atmo heating by itself and not with the rest of the heating system.

2 hours ago, Meecrob said:

I apologize in advance for not reading the whole thread, but I am bursting at the seams to say this; Does anyone else think that maybe Nate Simpson does not know what KSP is? I cannot help but shake the feeling that he thinks landing on the Mun and making an explosion is the end goal when the rest of us are trying to do a grand tour. This is not meant to be a takedown...deep in my heart I believe he was trying to do his best, but sometimes people are out of their depth, promoted beyond their abilities. The real people I am upset with are the people higher up than him that did not see the limits of his ability. I believe he would be a great member of the KSP2 team, just not the leader.

Please tell me how I am wrong, I genuinely wish to be wrong on this.

You are not wrong. As it stands, and until proper big features start arriving and we can see what their design ideas are, KSP2 is completely bankrupt, the only reason you'd have to play it is the novelty, and maybe the graphics if you really hate your computer or hate modding.

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

8 hours ago, Socraticat said:

The next update is going to be awesome... It has to be and they know it

Well, their problem is they spaced out the updates even more.

This gets you more time but it further increases expectations for what your updates contain, and I’m not yet sure if it was wise of them or not.

I hope they delay the patch to add more features, instead of coming up with an update comparable to what we had before when the space between them was much smaller. 

5 hours ago, Meecrob said:

I apologize in advance for not reading the whole thread, but I am bursting at the seams to say this; Does anyone else think that maybe Nate Simpson does not know what KSP is? I cannot help but shake the feeling that he thinks landing on the Mun and making an explosion is the end goal when the rest of us are trying to do a grand tour. This is not meant to be a takedown...deep in my heart I believe he was trying to do his best, but sometimes people are out of their depth, promoted beyond their abilities. The real people I am upset with are the people higher up than him that did not see the limits of his ability. I believe he would be a great member of the KSP2 team, just not the leader.

Please tell me how I am wrong, I genuinely wish to be wrong on this.

I have a similar feeling that they bit more than they can chew.

I hope they do the right thing and leave the smart people some room to work and talk, and quit marketing nothing burgers. 

[Superfluous J]

15 hours ago, Lettuce said:

Please tell me how different they are.

Well I don't own KSP2 so can't speak on it, but from what I can tell from comments here everything good in KSP was changed in KSP2, and everything bad in KSP was left the same in KSP2.

[VlonaldKerman]

17 hours ago, Meecrob said:

This is not meant to be a takedown...deep in my heart I believe he was trying to do his best, but sometimes people are out of their depth, promoted beyond their abilities. The real people I am upset with are the people higher up than him that did not see the limits of his ability. I believe he would be a great member of the KSP2 team, just not the leader.

Please tell me how I am wrong, I genuinely wish to be wrong on this.

I actually am not sure it’s this- obv something happened a couple of years ago that screwed development. There are two narratives that could be true:

1) Incompetence screwed development and it’s still there so future development will be impeded, potentially fatally.

2) It was a problem which they solved by restarting, so now they’re behind, but development should continue without sever incompetence.

It’s hard to tell which of these is true. But it is important- this is what I try to communicate to those who say, “Whatever happened is water under the bridge, they’re in EA now and I’m just going to support them; they’ll finish eventually.”

What the actual problem was/is probably goes beyond Nate Simpson. He’s a nice scapegoat, but I doubt one person is responsible for what we see- like I said, it’s probably either widespread or deep incompetence or another problem that’s out of Nate’s control.

With regards to the question of “what is going on, why hasn’t anyone come clean” I wouldn’t expect Nate to be in a position to do so. That doesn’t mean it’s bad to direct your frustration at him- that’s his job, that’s why he’s paid the big bucks. But I doubt it’s actually really in his lap.

18 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

It's almost like they're different enough that you can't reliably compare them.

They were supposed to be different- ie. new core physics, graphics, etc. systems that would scale more effectively and performantly. However, many or most of those are not in place. I made a thread about this a while ago.

In other words, they are supposed to be different from the ground up (this is also the rationale some use to justify the long development time and unadvanced state of the game). However, they are factually not, in many ways. At least not yet.

Perhaps there are tons of systems laying around which are 80% ready and haven’t yet been integrated into the main build, and these are fundamentally different that the first game. In that case, you would be right(I hope you are). However, I’m skeptical of this narrative. Time will tell.

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

31 minutes ago, VlonaldKerman said:

Perhaps there are tons of systems laying around which are 80% ready and haven’t yet been integrated into the main build, and these are fundamentally different that the first game. In that case, you would be right(I hope you are). However, I’m skeptical of this narrative. Time will tell.

The reason I do not think this is true is it would be a low hanging fruit in 6 months to bundle a few of these systems and wow everyone and get some more sales and reputation, it would also be like that moment when people were genuinely cheering the iOS when they finally got Copy & Paste after 2 years, when Android had it on day one. 

[Jacke]

On 8/4/2023 at 5:52 AM, Superfluous J said:

We've reached the next stage of evolution of taking a screen shot.

• Old and busted: Taking a screen shot.
• Old hotness: Taking a picture of your screen with your phone.
• New hotness: Taking a picture of your phone taking a picture of your screen.

It's better than making it a drinking game and just "taking a shot".  Because I think no one's liver would survive that.

I also agree with you on KSP versus KSP 2, especially this.

13 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

Well I don't own KSP2 so can't speak on it, but from what I can tell from comments here everything good in KSP was changed in KSP2, and everything bad in KSP was left the same in KSP2.

[Strawberry]

Im pretty sure the reason why this is a sneak peek is not just because "Look at blurry picture of part being subject to heating visuals", is because its not a picture of someone taking a photo, its a picture of someone taking a video. We've heard a lot of times that they want to switch to video communications and I think this is meant to be a teaser for next week. Chances are next friday we'll get a 3-5 minute long video of "Hey here's a little bit of where we're at with science (with a unity window science vehicle in the background), hey we will have visuals for heating next update here's a clip and should have the basic reentry system next update, oh also we're doing an ama with darrin".

Edited August 6, 2023 by Strawberry

[Alexoff]

13 minutes ago, Strawberry said:

Chances are next friday we'll get a 3-5 minute long video

Why such a short video? Why not like before - with developers walking in slow-mo and voice-over? And at the end, a working computer with a running KSP1, behind which there is no one, and somewhere in the distance, one of the developers walks out of focus.

[Superluminal Gremlin]

On 8/4/2023 at 7:52 AM, GGG-GoodGuyGreg said:

Still, it could be worse. It could be a DLC. 

Shhhhh don't give them ideas 

 

[Strawberry]

2 hours ago, Alexoff said:

Why such a short video? Why not like before - with developers walking in slow-mo and voice-over? And at the end, a working computer with a running KSP1, behind which there is no one, and somewhere in the distance, one of the developers walks out of focus.

Because those feature videos primary function is to be trailers that build up hype, they share insight on the things people really care about in order to build up hype. What's been talked about plenty by dakota is the desire to replace the previously weekly "upnates" with more meaty videos. Since the primary function of these is to be core more frequent and focused updates on the development on the game that sustain the community instead of a wide scope video on entire game topics that excite it, they will likely be shorter and more focused.

[Strawberry]

On 8/4/2023 at 8:47 PM, PDCWolf said:

Nah, my intuition genuinely tells me that whatever they have for science isn't more than 2 months away.

Personally I'd go with three just because they seem to be going for 2 month development cycles, but considering that now the science team and the bug fixing team are fully separate, its possible their development cycles are off sync. If I were to give my update predictions, we will probably bug fix update + gridfin + reentry visual update in the week of august 21st, a month later we may see an update just for reentry heating, if not in october we will see reentry heating and science together. 

[Geredis]

2 hours ago, Strawberry said:

What's been talked about plenty by dakota is the desire to replace the previously weekly "upnates" with more meaty videos.

I'm disappointed by that. I'd much rather read a meaningful  update than waste 20 minutes on a video of dubious weight, which I'd much ratherread the transcript of in 5 minutes. Whenever they post them, there'd better be thorough and exacting transcripts of the videos. And sadly despite their general improvements in transcription with those AMA's...I do not have faith that they can/will bother with other video transcripts in a satisfactory manner.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Geredis
Point of clarification.

[TLTay]

2019 me seeing announce video: tear of pride and joys rolls down my cheek.

2020 me seeing delay: me gusta, I can take it. Do what you gotta do.

2021 me with more delays: ok.  Not ideal, but ok.

2022 me with more delays: hmm. The heck is going on over there?

Early 2023 me with EA "release": lol. The dystopian decay has spread to my favorite refuge. Not good

Mid 2023 me seeing heat effect salesmanship: lmao. Nate's used car lot in full effect. "Drives out fine" for 2 hours until you're past warranty (steam refund period) then it's your problem, pal. 

(Slaps hood) This baby can fit so much heat effects!

Edited August 7, 2023 by TLTay

[Strawberry]

3 hours ago, Geredis said:

I'm disappointed by that. I'd much rather read a meaningful  update than waste 20 minutes on a video of dubious weight

Coffee team studios (satisfactory devs) do video updates as well and the ksp2 cm team has explicitly said that their style has been inspired by them. Most of their specific "Hey here's a thing we're doing for the next update" tends to be ten minutes or under, and they tend to be pretty nice. Personally I doubt this one will be that long, I dont think they'll have that much to show, development has been slow this summer even for this team for a variety of reasons, Id be surprised if its over seven minutes. I'd recommend you give it a shot, but if not, I'm pretty sure a transcript with the specific timestamps of the juicy bits of the video seems pretty doable, god knows @Dakota has had enough transcript experience doing those hour long ama's. 

[The Aziz]

4 hours ago, TLTay said:

(Slaps hood) This baby can fit so much heat effects!

Rome wasn't burned in a day

Wait what was the phrase again?

[Superfluous J]

3 hours ago, The Aziz said:

Rome wasn't burned in a day

Wait what was the phrase again?

I believe it's "We'll burn that bridge when we get to it."

[PDCWolf]

15 hours ago, Strawberry said:

Personally I'd go with three just because they seem to be going for 2 month development cycles, but considering that now the science team and the bug fixing team are fully separate, its possible their development cycles are off sync. If I were to give my update predictions, we will probably bug fix update + gridfin + reentry visual update in the week of august 21st, a month later we may see an update just for reentry heating, if not in october we will see reentry heating and science together. 

There's no space for many extra months considering KSP2 is below 100 players again. The "Huge" spike from the previous update has died off now, so I'm sure we'll see stuff in the shorter term (bugfixes or a couple new parts like they did last time), whilst keeping science for what's essentially the only and last "big" update of the year. So yeah, I say end of October, you say November, I think we're both agreeing on the details without knowing it.

Considering their lazy pace and so, I don't think they'll be working on December at all, between vacations and holidays, so they understand the playerbase is gonna perceive them as "leaving" for a good while, and they probably have stuff lined up to not "leave" us with a broken game after the only big update, at least in their vision.