For Science! - My Thoughts (And Yours Too!)

[bcink]

1) Stacked parts decouple very poorly, often not at all. Sometimes time-warp fixes it, sometimes not
2) The countdown numbers on launch staging button do not countdown
3) You cannot create maneuver nodes when the game is paused?
4) There is very little re-entry / atmospheric drag tested when aerobraking
5) Tier 2 + UI is busted on ultrawide:

6) You can't expand science parts in the VAB.

7) Maneuver node creation is really janky. AP/PE points can overlap closely with maneuver node and its impossible to hover over the maneuver node's PE / AP to see what the numbers are

8) No trajectory appeared on takeoff from Mun:

9) Light parts not shining any light.

Trying to give this a fair shake but eeesh still

Edited December 21, 2023 by bcink

[stephensmat]

1 minute ago, bcink said:

1) Stacked parts decouple very poorly, often not at all. Sometimes time-warp fixes it, sometimes not

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that one. Launch and Boosters worked and disconnected fine, but the stackers and decouplers on the rest of the craft I had to his the 'decouple' button manually in the Parts menu. Realistic for a space agency., I guess. But not convenient mid-flight.

[Urus28]

16 hours ago, Chilkoot said:

For what it's worth, actual crashes should be really uncommon.  Any chance your old vid card is heating up due to poor circulation or something?  Assuming your NVidia drivers are up-to-date?  Is it just the KSP executable crashing out, or the whole OS?

Only the game crash, my driver is up-to-date, I managed to improve the playing time by decreasing the graphic settings, it's far more stable now =)

[chefsbrian]

Welp, full disclosure, after a few bugs slapped me on my attempted Mun landings, I resumed the cycle of going back to KSP1 while thinking about what could be.

The difference I feel, this time at least, is that I went back thinking about how close it was, and whether I should try again this weekend, rather than the last times I tried KSP2 and went back to KSP1 mad about how I'd wasted my time and had an awful experience. I still don't expect KSP2 to compare to my KSP1 modded runs in so far as keeping attention and engagement, but the fact its going from being seething frustration bad to simply being lagged behind in a relatively positive light is a big win for me. The bugs still stuck, but now it feels like I played a bunch and hit some bugs, rather than fighting the game for every single thing I wanted to do. Many of the frustration points I hit were simple UI/UX issues that can be addressed (VAB Plz remember my workspace, if you want me to use workspaces then stop throwing me into a new one every time, and let me name craft in the space differently) with future updates.

I see a path forward for the game to compete with the systems I have now, which is more than I could have said back in October, when it still felt like a completely worthless venture to engage with the game. 

[Sp1f]

First impressions! I’ve only played for about an hour and a half so I’m sure there’s a lot that I haven’t seen.

I have done 2 suborbital launches and 1 orbital w/return. Very simple crafts but my launches went smoothly, no sign of wobbliness or crashing into invisible walls, so great improvement there.

My understanding was that there was supposed to be re-entry heating. No sign of it so far. Yet I see some people have commented on it. Hmmm…maybe I’ll try a clean reinstall and see if I can get it too. Or maybe the parameters for when it kicks in are different than KSP1 and my crafts just haven’t qualified. Dunno.

First mission- launch first rocket. I go up to 110km and return safely.

Second mission- get to space. Briefing says that so-and-so doesn’t believe KSP can get to space. Got to get there to prove them wrong.

Er…didn’t we just get back from space? In KSP1 career mode if you completed a “worlds first milestone” out of order, you would get credit for it and mission control would direct you to the next thing. KSP2 isn’t that smart yet I guess. 

3rd mission- go to orbit. Yep, yep. I noticed you can’t refuse missions like you could in KSP1. Not a big deal but when you combine that with not recognizing milestones already completed, I worry that the exploration mode progression is currently too linear. You should be able to skip missions or complete a number of milestones in a single launch without having to go back and forth to mission control.

4th mission-go to Mun. The pacing of this seems excessively fast. This is like 45 minutes in at most. Right now exploration mode seems to be career mode, but with only the ‘worlds first milestone’ missions, none of the commercial missions. I feel like it needs more meat on the bone. Give us some reasons to explore kerbin for a few hours before turning our attention to the Mun. Or if I choose to go to Minmus first instead, or Duna or Bop or something, pick that plotline up and adapt without a hitch,

Science collection- It’s a little unclear when I’m actually collecting science. Most of the time when I try to, it tells me I’m in an invalid location or something. But then after the mission I’ve got some science so I guess it is doing something right after all.

Other thoughts- KSP2 kerbals still seem to have no sense of personality. I feel like individual skill progression for Kerbals in KSP1, as well as cost to hire them, results in a greater sense of investment in them, whereas in KSP2 your crew choice is like pulling names out of a hat. It’s very unsatisfying. I want to have favorite kerbals, or kerbals who are better suited to particular missions. Hopefully this will come.

[tstein]

I am happy with  having a proper game now and it can nwo run on my computer. I am  a bit sad there are so few starting instruments for science. I liked a lot to have to squeeze termometer, baromether, goo etc in  the ships and   maybe have to send 2 missions to send all I  had of instruments. Now  with fewer parts and single click does all , well I will have to use the term, feels "dumbed down". I hope they iterate a bit more increasing  science granularity.

[bmcmahonwrx]

I want to say my initial review was overwhelmingly positive and filled with optimism that was quickly tempered by the state of the game. I did not update my review to reflect my experience because I don’t believe in throwing shade a group of people that were working hard.  I want to say after playing about 5 hours of the For Science! update that I’m resoundingly impressed what the Intercept Games team has accomplished this year. I’m finally playing Kerbal Space Program again and not some janky sandbox.  It’s still Kerbal Space Program, therefore it’s fun, engaging, and has bugs and quirks, but like the original, the enjoyment far outweighs any drawbacks (Finally!!) I also have to say it’s beautiful! I did a low-altitude river run from inland to sea, and I could  not get over how beautiful the water, shoreline, and color transitions were truly captivating… I won’t say much about performance because I have a monster rig, but my experience at first blush in For Science! has been exceptional. The tech tree and missions far exceed the KSP 1 experience, some quirks but well thought out. I can finally say I highly recommend this game. I look forward to what’s in the pipeline.  Thank you Intercept Games for staying with it, righting this ship, and delivering a fun and engaging game. Take some time and enjoy the holidays. You’ve certainly earned it.  Looking forward to KSP 2 in 2024!

Edited December 21, 2023 by bmcmahonwrx
Fixed typos

[Tallenn]

For the most part, I am loving it!

There are only a couple of things I'm concerned about. 

1. Parachutes seem to fail (break off after deploying, both before or after full deployment) randomly, though I admit it could be I am doing something wrong. So far, it's hard to tell which. More experimentation is needed. 

2. Maneuver nodes seem to be... I want to say unfinished? In KSP 1, there was a UI that allowed you to make subtle adjustments to the node after creating it (as part of the mode control). I can't find anything like that in KSP 2, and am having a difficult time making small changes to a node. It seems like the only way to interact with it is to drag parts of the node itself. Someone please tell me I'm just missing something. 

 

Everything else is awesome! rocket building is fun and intuitive, flying the rocket is great, the graphics and sound are phenomenal, and the countdown is a fun addition!

[bmcmahonwrx]

For sure there are some quirks and issues. I’m not have my parachutes detach, however I’m having trouble getting them to arm through staging . I usually have to go into the parts manager and arm them manually and then they deploy instantly because they’re below their trigger parameters. But I’m saving those line items for bug reports and have faith those items will get addressed. The game still requires a lot of polish but now they’re working with stone instead of a turd. Regardless of all the delays and initial state, I just wanted to give the Intercept team a solid pat on the back. I personally feel they’ve delivered something that warrants a well deserved break, a moment breathe, and hopefully opportunity to regroup for a strong 2024 update cadence (hopefully). 

1 hour ago, Tallenn said:

For the most part, I am loving it!

There are only a couple of things I'm concerned about. 

1. Parachutes seem to fail (break off after deploying, both before or after full deployment) randomly, though I admit it could be I am doing something wrong. So far, it's hard to tell which. More experimentation is needed. 

2. Maneuver nodes seem to be... I want to say unfinished? In KSP 1, there was a UI that allowed you to make subtle adjustments to the node after creating it (as part of the mode control). I can't find anything like that in KSP 2, and am having a difficult time making small changes to a node. It seems like the only way to interact with it is to drag parts of the node itself. Someone please tell me I'm just missing something. 

 

Everything else is awesome! rocket building is fun and intuitive, flying the rocket is great, the graphics and sound are phenomenal, and the countdown is a fun addition!

Edited December 21, 2023 by bmcmahonwrx
Fixed typo

[tstein]

I can just hope the next large milestone bring  the same scale step forward. If it does  we will have a quite good game (Athough  GUI/UX still need some   work, KSP 1 still worked better in several  things (specially while planning  complex maneuver sequences)

[Bej Kerman]

1 hour ago, tstein said:

I can just hope the next large milestone bring  the same scale step forward.

What was big about it? I enjoy the QOL improvements, but besides science which boils down to "don't show these parts unless player has X points" I don't recall any noteworthy features being added.

[Chilkoot]

8 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

"don't show these parts unless player has X points"

This is kind of a core concept in a progression-oriented gameplay loop.  There's quite a bit new going on under the hood to make that simple statement true.

[ArmchairGravy]

On 12/20/2023 at 1:55 PM, speceballs said:

i'm not sure the dev team worked out  aerobraking yet

I had to be up at 60k to survive the first pass coming back from Minmus.  

[KincaidFrankMF]

15 hours ago, Sp1f said:

First mission- launch first rocket. I go up to 110km and return safely.

Second mission- get to space. Briefing says that so-and-so doesn’t believe KSP can get to space. Got to get there to prove them wrong.

Er…didn’t we just get back from space? In KSP1 career mode if you completed a “worlds first milestone” out of order, you would get credit for it and mission control would direct you to the next thing. KSP2 isn’t that smart yet I guess. 

Completely agree with all your points here. I haven't got very far in yet, but so far the missions feel quite restrictive - little/no choice, and they actively discourage you from trying to achieve more than that one set goal. Even when I was brand new to KSP, the fun of trying to go further with very limited parts & tech was a bit part of the thrill.

Still an enormous step in the right direction though!

[Periple]

I thought you could do them in one mission if you went back to mission control and checked it in as soon as the goal was met? Like check in “launch a rocket” at 10 km, then check in “reach space” at 110 km and so on? 

Is this wrong?

[Superfluous J]

29 minutes ago, Periple said:

I thought you could do them in one mission if you went back to mission control and checked it in as soon as the goal was met? Like check in “launch a rocket” at 10 km, then check in “reach space” at 110 km and so on?

Only if they're available. In your example I believe it would work (if you are willing to leave a suborbital hop to go to Mission Control) but for my example (do a splashdown, even though the prior 2 missions I'd done splashdowns), the mission wasn't there there to accept.

Similarly, if your very first flight landed on Mun (Spoiler: at the correct place) without orbiting first (suicide landing from outside of Mun's SOI, for example) you could never complete the "orbit mun" contract to get the "land on mun" contract to complete.

(hmmm... there's a challenge opportunity...)
         o O

Edited December 22, 2023 by Superfluous J

[ArmchairGravy]

Question: Where did they hide the fairings? I've been all through the tree and I can't find them.

[Bej Kerman]

9 hours ago, Chilkoot said:

18 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

"don't show these parts unless player has X points"

This is kind of a core concept in a progression-oriented gameplay loop

This is kind of a core concept the 90s wants back.

10 hours ago, Chilkoot said:

There's quite a bit new going on under the hood to make that simple statement true.

There's quite a bit going on under the hood for literally everything.

[tstein]

9 hours ago, ArmchairGravy said:

I had to be up at 60k to survive the first pass coming back from Minmus.  

I had to up to  68 km. At 67.5  the ship burned to a crisp.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

Question - do farings still just drop away at a weird 90 degree angle from direction of flight?  Or do they fall away more like SRBs / old farings?

[Sea_Kerman]

5 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Question - do farings still just drop away at a weird 90 degree angle from direction of flight?  Or do they fall away more like SRBs / old farings?

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/221285-fairings-eject-forward-instead-of-sideways

 

[Lowend]

I’ve liked the update i just unlocked level 4 science . 
only real issue I’ve found is my parachutes don’t always work , I’ll need to quickly click and Rearm deploy etc . Didn’t really have that issue before. 

I had a weird issue doing one of the side task on laythe, as soon as I exited to Eva for the task  and touched the ground I stopped being able to move the kerbal.    Reloading , and even reloading even earlyier didn’t seem to fix it.  I ended up just moving my lander closer to the object and was able todo the science holding onto the craft.  This happen one other time randomly in orbit of kerbal with the craft . Could no longer rotate the craft etc even with sas.  A reload worked to fix it. 
 

I never saw the issue with flight path lines disappearing till this update . But a reload fixes it . 
 

science can be little confusing .  Just click the blinking light and your good to go.    The other window while cluttered isn’t really needed .  If you can transmit data you just need to click the transmit button .  If they added a small button or the science button turned a different color when you can transmit the data and can just click that again  that be nice quality of life feature (mod it lol). .  I only read the science window when I don’t need to worry about flying etc ie static orbit.   

saw a interview with one of the devs and he said the next big update should come much sooner. That’s nice since they don’t need to work out so many core issues and just the add on. 
 

[shdwlrd]

As someone that hated the science mode in KSP1. I do find Exploration mode quite playable. After the first couple unlocks, there's really nothing stopping you from playing your way. (Outside of reentry heating.) Now they just need to add joystick support (without monkeying with settings files) and some flying aids, I would be very happy to get back playing KSP regularly.

[CashedOut]

Honestly (though I understand the journey the devs have been on), I wish the game had been released at this stage rather than where we were last February. But I'm happy that we have FS now. This finally feels like the KSP I love. 

Sidebar - I want them to take their time and get it right/not break things, but I do hope that now we're past the first big update we'll see other roadmap items sooner than later - I'll be sad if we have to wait another year for colonies.

[HebaruSan]

On 12/21/2023 at 2:28 AM, Superfluous J said:

Speaking of wobble, I gotta come down on the side of they WAY overfixed it.

My first Exploration Mode launch begs to differ:

Spoiler

Flexing is still very much possible, especially if you go ham with the starting parts. Satisfyingly, I was able to salvage that design with some careful thought about lever arms and attachment points, and the reflight went smoothly. It felt like solving a proper puzzle.

On 12/21/2023 at 7:46 AM, Sp1f said:

Give us some reasons to explore kerbin for a few hours before turning our attention to the Mun.

I use my wish to cancel out your wish. I much prefer the current focus on space. Kerbin was always the most boring part of KSP1 career.