Take Two Interactive (Rockstar, 2K, Private Division) canceling games, ending projects and laying off 5% of its workforce

[Lisias]

On 5/2/2024 at 8:22 AM, Pulstar said:

I'm interpreting this more as something that developer happens to coincidentally still be working for, despite the original pitch losing out to Star Theory. For one I think he would be less chatty about the whole thing if he did have a contract with Take Two, because then he would certainly have a gag order/NDA on it.

Finally someone playing ball with me.

So:

1. He's not working officially on KSP2, but he's willing to do so. And he's claiming he's working hard on it already, so unofficially.
   1. Do some research on his contacts over life.
2. Or he's contracted to do the work, and he's authorized to say it. [he didn't said it - got influenced by the one passing the word, just checked the posts again]

Now match these possible conclusions with my previous claims.

(I don't want to be the only one reaching into a conclusion - I'm kinda burnt already by my big, wide mouth).

--- -- - POST EDIT

25% of the Conspiracy.Theory is over. Let's see how much the remaining 75% lasts!

Edited May 3 by Lisias
burnt! :)

[Mutex]

11 hours ago, MARL_Mk1 said:

Rocketwerkz (Dean Hall's studio, creator of Icarus, Stationeers...) was one of the final bidders for KSP2. According to what he said on the Reddit's megathread, they are still developing said game (not about Kerbals obviously) (with a propietary, in-dev engine) and is asking layoffs from IG to contact him directly. There's still hope for other realistic spaceflight games to flourish for now. When asked, he said we should hear about the project in about +-1.5 years.

 

This is kinda interesting: https://old.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1chgbzl/2024_take_2_layoffs_megathread/l23nani/?context=3

Seems like Dean Hall was talking to someone who he realised was a KSP2 developer (or worked at IG), and after saying so the person deleted their posts.

[K^2]

28 minutes ago, Lisias said:

There're signs that I.G. was sacked in favour of another Studio in the same way StarTheory was sacked in favour of i.G.

You will find something on Reddit , initially mentioned here (but I can't vow for the veracity of the information).

So, yeah, apparently development will keep ongoing - but if History had taught me something, is that we don't have a good omen about how things will develop. Time will tell.

Rocketwerkz are making their own game, and since they're building it on their engine, it's in a very different category. I'm sure they could pivot more towards KSP2, but that'd be starting work from scratch, effectively. Realistically, I think RW will pick up some devs from this and continue making their own game. It's possible that it will be good. Possibly great. But I think it will be more tightly scoped than KSP2 was intended to be.

 

I see no indication at present that there is a replacement for Intercept. As it was an internal team, there would be complications with shopping for a replacement before the studio got closed, and these things take time. It's entirely possible that T2 has a studio in mind, but unless it's another internal team (and I can't think who) this would have to start with negotiations, and then we'll lose more time as the team is ramped up. I wouldn't expect any updates on how KSP2 is going for at least half a year.

[Pulstar]

Just now, Lisias said:

Or he's contracted to do the work, and he's authorized to say it.

I'm skeptical about this possibility as Take Two does not strike me as a chatty company, consider how much under the lid GTA6 was being kept. Sure PD is supposed to be "different" less corporate a more daring/niche etc. label with a different strategy/approach, but going back to how Star Theory shutting down was handled I believe it took a while before the whole thing was clarified and I do not believe Dean Hall being chatty fits that old pattern. Sure patterns can change, but I am unwilling to wager in favor of this being the case here. Just my 5 cents.

[PDCWolf]

4 hours ago, Lisias said:

The Conspiracist that lives in me salutes the Anarchist that lives in you!

 

I agree. Problem - the most simple explanation for the info I had gathered until this moment involves a serious breach of Contract at best. Or a kinda of "coup d'etat" at worst (perhaps in the same grounds StarTheory was sacked - you know, we have a precedent already).

Problem: talking too much, and I risk slandering someone - and this would be a concrete problem.

Can you give us a full-ish writeup of your theory but with safe names?

3 hours ago, Lisias said:

You get what you promotes. If we promote sociopaths into high management roles, it's a surprise some (if not most) of them will reach the top?

We (you, me, and everybody else) are the ones funding this party, that money came from our pockets.

Megalomania and narcissism are what tends to dominate management positions. In fact, the only reason management positions exist, along with all the sprint, scrum, agile and other useless management jargon that only serves for managers to slow processes to a halt so their tiny brains can keep up with it, is because they themselves decided they needed that many management positions that they and others like them occupy. In what other world would you find people that "studied" social "sciences" to be in control of the people that actually studied natural and exact sciences to do processes? Those people, from field scientists to engineers are trained not only in academia but also in economics during their time in university.

1 hour ago, Flush Foot said:

https://discord.com/channels/1039959585949237268/1039965578754007060/1235360830695145543

Dakota on Discord: “this server isn't going anywhere any time soon. same with the forums.”

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Did y'all bother to ask follow up questions to that? did he answer any?

I'm thinking: Will this remain the official discord? Will fired devs leave the server? Will new devs join? and basic stuff like that. Basically that discord is now a fan discord and a liability until a huge cleanup happens.

1 hour ago, Lisias said:

There're signs that I.G. was sacked in favour of another Studio in the same way StarTheory was sacked in favour of i.G.

You will find something on Reddit , initially mentioned here (but I can't vow for the veracity of the information).

So, yeah, apparently development will keep ongoing - but if History had taught me something, is that we don't have a good omen about how things will develop. Time will tell.

Loved seeing deanhall instantly setting up a makeshift recruitment notice. I hope he can make a worthy clone, and I remember personally congratulating him for seeing talent where most of us consumers saw a talentless mess.

[AtomicTech]

11 hours ago, Great Liao said:

Unfortunately lol. I swear to god Nate Simpson is going to end up the CEO of take two with the amount of times he's scammed people and got away with it.

Ouch, don't  you think that's a bit too extreme?

10 hours ago, stephensmat said:

I'm Choosing to hold onto the 'Still Hard At Work' tweet until we hear otherwise.

Same here

[TLTay]

If they were transferring the development to another studio instead of cancelling or sending what they have to 1.0, they would have most likely said they were "realigning operations" so investors and analysts would be less likely to discount the future revenue stream from the games cancellation.

The fact that they claim "hard at work" indicates to me a push to a half baked 1.0 product. Fans have already shown a willingness to accept an incomplete, buggy product devoid of features, while paying AA prices. There is no reason whatsoever not to take advantage of that again with a "full" release.

[AtomicTech]

1 minute ago, TLTay said:

If they were transferring the development to another studio instead of cancelling or sending what they have to 1.0, they would have most likely said they were "realigning operations" so investors and analysts would be less likely to discount the future revenue stream from the games cancellation.

The fact that they claim "hard at work" indicates to me a push to a half baked 1.0 product. Fans have already shown a willingness to accept an incomplete, buggy product devoid of features, while paying AA prices. There is no reason whatsoever not to take advantage of that again with a "full" release.

Painful but possibly true.

[Scarecrow71]

3 minutes ago, TLTay said:

they would have most likely said they were "realigning operations"

They kind of said this in that corp-speak statement they released talking about "rationalizing the pipeline".  I know it's a pretty big stretch from that to realigning projects, and they did a very lousy job of communicating (which we are all used to with this project anyhow).  Not saying I disagree with you, just pointing out that they kind of, maybe, in a round-about way, perhaps, slightly said it.  Maybe.

5 minutes ago, TLTay said:

The fact that they claim "hard at work" indicates to me a push to a half baked 1.0 product.

The more I think about what happened, the more I'm convincing myself that this is true.  I think like you do - the company will make an attempt to slap a 1.0 label on the game with the next release (which was supposed to be 0.2.2) and then call it a day.  In 12-18 months you'll then see the company potentially go over its books, take a final look at the financials of KSP2, and decide whether or not they wish to work on KSP3.

[TLTay]

1 minute ago, Scarecrow71 said:

They kind of said this in that corp-speak statement they released talking about "rationalizing the pipeline".  I know it's a pretty big stretch from that to realigning projects, and they did a very lousy job of communicating (which we are all used to with this project anyhow).  Not saying I disagree with you, just pointing out that they kind of, maybe, in a round-about way, perhaps, slightly said it.  Maybe.

The more I think about what happened, the more I'm convincing myself that this is true.  I think like you do - the company will make an attempt to slap a 1.0 label on the game with the next release (which was supposed to be 0.2.2) and then call it a day.  In 12-18 months you'll then see the company potentially go over its books, take a final look at the financials of KSP2, and decide whether or not they wish to work on KSP3.

I interpreted "rationalizing the pipeline" as terminating projects and studios that have little chance of success. Corporate speak for "we got real about it" and fired some folks.

I would not expect another Kerbal title from T2. A push to a subpar 1.0 would damage goodwill at the benefit of revenue, so I'd expect them to either idle the IP, sell it, or use it for mobile games where the existing fanbase's feelings are irrelevant.

[AtomicTech]

2 minutes ago, TLTay said:

I interpreted "rationalizing the pipeline" as terminating projects and studios that have little chance of success. Corporate speak for "we got real about it" and fired some folks.

I would not expect another Kerbal title from T2. A push to a subpar 1.0 would damage goodwill at the benefit of revenue, so I'd expect them to either idle the IP, sell it, or use it for mobile games where the existing fanbase's feelings are irrelevant.

In a weird twist of fate, it'd be interesting to see a company like Nintendo pick it up. See them work really, really hard to iron out everything, optimize it so much that it runs on the switch, and still have to find some way to allow mods. 

Mario Wonder was an absolute masterpiece and a testament to the quality that they can put out.

[TLTay]

Just now, AtomicTech said:

In a weird twist of fate, it'd be interesting to see a company like Nintendo pick it up. See them work really, really hard to iron out everything, optimize it so much that it runs on the switch, and still have to find some way to allow mods. 

Oh, dear. Please don't say the N word. I cannot ever see them supporting mods or PC port at all. It would languish on an underpowered console unfit for large scale physics computation and die with that company, since they'd never let it go once it's associated with them. 

[Majorjim!]

10 minutes ago, TLTay said:

"rationalizing the pipeline"

Companies that use language like that are straight up toxic. 

[AtomicTech]

3 minutes ago, TLTay said:

Oh, dear. Please don't say the N word. I cannot ever see them supporting mods or PC port at all. It would languish on an underpowered console unfit for large scale physics computation and die with that company, since they'd never let it go once it's associated with them. 

That's very true! Just though it'd be funny if I brought it up

[TLTay]

2 minutes ago, AtomicTech said:

That's very true! Just though it'd be funny if I brought it up

Everybody's looking for light at the end of the tunnel right now. I really wish this game had worked out better. 

[NexusHelium]

48 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Not saying I disagree with you, just pointing out that they kind of, maybe, in a round-about way, perhaps, slightly said it.  Maybe.

Yo is a little bit of my hopium rubbing off on you  

Edited May 2 by NexusHelium

[jwenting]

On 5/1/2024 at 4:51 PM, EndeavourCmdr said:

That's not how that works. Here, companies of more than 100 employees are required to give 60 days notice when a major layoff happens.

Sure, same here. What happens is they get given 60 days notice and then kicked out of the building on (hopefully paid) leave to prevent them "sabotaging things".

Been there, done that, cost me my total accrued vacation days which technically should have been paid out but weren't.

[Stewcooker]

4 hours ago, Lisias said:

There're signs that I.G. was sacked in favour of another Studio in the same way StarTheory was sacked in favour of i.G.

You will find something on Reddit , initially mentioned here (but I can't vow for the veracity of the information).

So, yeah, apparently development will keep ongoing - but if History had taught me something, is that we don't have a good omen about how things will develop. Time will tell.

Rocketwerkz is NOT owned by Take Two. Their website says they are independent, their steam pages show them as the developer and publisher of their games. Therefore, Take Two's decision to can IG has NOTHING to do with Rocketwerkz. 

Also, Rocketwerkz does not own the Kerbal IP. It sounds like they just continued development on their own internal prototype despite losing the pitch to be the KSP2 developer.

This means, in no uncertain terms, that Take Two will NOT be transferring development of KSP2 to Rocketwerkz. 

It does mean, that Dean Hall is a savvy studio owner/manager/whathaveyou and he wants some KSP2 devs to land at Rocketwerkz, and use their skills and talents to further his studio's project, NOT to revive or continue support on KSP 2. 

[Scarecrow71]

1 hour ago, NexusHelium said:

Yo is a little bit of my hopium rubbing off on you  

Nope.  I was simply pointing out what TT is quoted as saying, and then stating that it could be corp speak for realignment.  Because we have no proof it is one way or the other, I'm still of the mind that the game is dead (and if it isn't dead, then it's on life support and close to flat-lining).

44 minutes ago, jwenting said:

Sure, same here. What happens is they get given 60 days notice and then kicked out of the building on (hopefully paid) leave to prevent them "sabotaging things".

Been there, done that, cost me my total accrued vacation days which technically should have been paid out but weren't.

As I mentioned in another post, this happened to me when I left Humana and went to United Health Group.  I was given 3 weeks of time off between the 2 jobs, and paid for 4 weeks.  The only painful part of it was having to deal with transferring 401k funds out of Humana's internal fund thing (at the time; they may very well have moved to another financial system for this since then).

[Yakuzi]

13 hours ago, Flush Foot said:

TT CEO?

 

13 hours ago, Jaypeg said:

Uber entertainment CEO.
They've done this twice before

This is legitimately an insane assumption. How exactly is the former Uber Entertainment CEO involved in IG, PD or TT ? Be sure to include your sources.

 

13 hours ago, Jaypeg said:

In other news, I think the game will be fine. Better than fine, in fact.
Looking at tweets, and how these things pan out - the game is being moved into a different, more experienced studio to be worked on.

It's almost been 7 years since work started on KSP2, but despite the abysmal state of the game, the lack of pace and quality of its development and the unwavering dishonest (at best) communication, a couple of damage control tweets convince you that this time it's gonna be good for realsies?

 

Being optimistic is one thing, but this is something else altogether. The fact that such overt disingenuous positivity isn't getting called out here anymore truly is a testament of the current state of the forums.

[Kerbart]

5 hours ago, Lisias said:

There're signs that I.G. was sacked in favour of another Studio in the same way StarTheory was sacked in favour of i.G.

You will find something on Reddit , initially mentioned here (but I can't vow for the veracity of the information).

Oh great. "We looked at the code, and we think it's a mess. Also we didn't like the direction the game took" So they'll start again from scratch, spend another three years on not actually producig anything and then of course anyone who wants to play the new new release will be expected to fork over another $50. Even if this scenario is true it won't be good.

[Flush Foot]

14 hours ago, Great Liao said:

Unfortunately lol. I swear to god Nate Simpson is going to end up the CEO of take two with the amount of times he's scammed people and got away with it.

14 hours ago, Icegrx said:

You’re pointing the finger at the wrong person. Point higher. 

14 hours ago, Flush Foot said:

TT CEO?

Yakuzi, maybe I misunderstood the conversation before my message, (I did not see 'of take two' in Great Liao's message, stopping at "Nate will wind up CEO") but I was responding as if Nate was going 'all the way to the top'... I was not saying TT CEO is to blame for this/anything... In fact, either in this convo or another, I 'credited' TT for giving IG as much time as they did!

18 minutes ago, Yakuzi said:

This is legitimately an insane assumption. How exactly is the former Uber Entertainment CEO involved in IG, PD or TT ? Be sure to include your sources.

 

[Infinite Aerospace]

3 hours ago, TLTay said:

If they were transferring the development to another studio instead of cancelling or sending what they have to 1.0, they would have most likely said they were "realigning operations" so investors and analysts would be less likely to discount the future revenue stream from the games cancellation.

The fact that they claim "hard at work" indicates to me a push to a half baked 1.0 product. Fans have already shown a willingness to accept an incomplete, buggy product devoid of features, while paying AA prices. There is no reason whatsoever not to take advantage of that again with a "full" release.

The thing is, the people who already purchased the game have done just that, purchased it, as in past tense. They'd get the 'release' regardless.

So take advantage of who? Their game is in the process of being review bombed to oblivion on Steam, no-one is going to recommend it, so who is buying?

Sure might get the occasional person who'll think "That looks interesting" and picks it up on a Steam sale. But that's no use to Take Two interactive, they'd never recuperate their investment with that approach.

This was something of an outcome I feared for Kerbal Space Program II back when it was announced it was coming as Early Access. The issue stems from it being a very niche game, with a fairly small player base. As soon as a company like Take Two became involved, you had to start asking "How are Take Two going to generate revenue from KSP2?".

I say the above because literally nine of ten people I know personally wouldn't touch Kerbal Space Program because it's 'too difficult' and it has too steep of a learning curve for them to invest the time into it. I think that fits the vast majority of gamers as a whole, which is sad if I'm honest. Grand Theft Auto is almost guaranteed to be a resounding success, because the same people who buy all of the standard 'rinse and repeat' games will lap it up.

34 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

Oh great. "We looked at the code, and we think it's a mess. Also we didn't like the direction the game took" So they'll start again from scratch, spend another three years on not actually producig anything and then of course anyone who wants to play the new new release will be expected to fork over another $50. Even if this scenario is true it won't be good.

No studio in their right mind would take that on, it's almost a guaranteed way to lose money. If Kerbal Space Program II has in-fact been canned, and Intercept is being shut down, Kerbal as a franchise is dead, gone, kaput, never to see the light of day again because no-one will touch it.

[Ryaja]

I'm refunding ksp2 unless the devs respond in the next few hours. This lack of communication is not okay.

 

@Nate Simpson do you know what going on?

[Infinite Aerospace]

2 minutes ago, Ryaja said:

I'm refunding ksp2 unless the devs respond in the next few hours. This lack of communication is not okay.

 

@Nate Simpson do you know what going on?

Unless you bought the game like, an hour ago that's going to be difficult as you won't get a refund.