Take Two Interactive (Rockstar, 2K, Private Division) canceling games, ending projects and laying off 5% of its workforce

[PDCWolf]

5 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Might not last that long.  Rocketwerkz has already reached out to him.

Sadly.

Tom Vinita had similar roles on 4 other sub-mediocre games... Not sure I trust Rocketwerkz's version if they just shotgun hire everyone like this.

2 hours ago, MARL_Mk1 said:

By Matt's words on his two tweets, we may get actual, real information by the end of the week?

"I have learned a lot these past few days, and it definitely wasn't their fault. By the end of the week you'll understand why."

https://x.com/Matt_Lowne/status/1793376610684641541

I don't think whatever they'll say we'll ever get enough level of detail to justify the 2020-2023 mess, and their subpar performance after releasing the game regarding speed and quality.

[Vanamonde]

Some cranky comments removed. Please back off the tempers. 

[Bej Kerman]

16 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

Not sure I trust Rocketwerkz's version if they just shotgun hire everyone like this.

You mean the same way Squad hired someone who could barely pull together a mobile game?

[Meecrob]

15 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

You mean the same way Squad hired someone who could barely pull together a mobile game?

What are you talking about? Who did Squad hire? What experience did they have barely making a mobile game?

Edited May 23 by Meecrob

[J.Random]

I think the first console port of KSP was done by a mobile trash developer. Raised a lot of eyebrows at the time. But I don't think Squad hired them. Wasn't it after T2 acquisition already?

[Bej Kerman]

51 minutes ago, Meecrob said:

What are you talking about? Who did Squad hire? What experience did they have barely making a mobile game?

HarvesteR, HarvesteR, 0 experience before KSP.

[Meecrob]

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

How to say "I did zero research on the person I'm trying to insult" without saying it.

Squad hired Filipe to do marketing. He burned out and was going to quit. Squad said "You are a good worker, what will it take to keep you?" He said "I wanna make a video game!"

I dunno what you are trying to get at with your comment about mobile games. Yeah, the early versions of KSP were 2D and similar to mobile games, but those weren't even publicly available.

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

0 experience before KSP.

You are correct here, but this information can be spun both ways. You would like to spin it "Filipe made a bunch of amateur errors that led to spaghetti code and long load times, etc, etc." Whereas, I could spin it as "a total nobody with zero experience made a game so groundbreaking and successful that they were scared of shady characters figuring out where they were located in Mexico City because they were selling so many copies of KSP. Also, the owners of the highest grossing entertainment product of all time (GTAV and Take Two) thought the game was good enough to purchase the IP."

I know you will try to deny this, but you obviously like KSP1. You have gripes about it, but love and hate are two sides of the same coin. If your words reflected your true feelings, you would be indifferent.

2 hours ago, J.Random said:

I think the first console port of KSP was done by a mobile trash developer. Raised a lot of eyebrows at the time. But I don't think Squad hired them. Wasn't it after T2 acquisition already?

Wasn't there also a mobile developer involved in the very early stages of KSP2? In another thread I mistakenly remembered Star Theory originally as one, and someone corrected me. Can't find it for the life of me though.

Edited May 23 by Meecrob

[Bej Kerman]

12 minutes ago, Meecrob said:

Whereas, I could spin it as "a total nobody with zero experience

 

[LHACK4142]

It's kinda interesting how much angrier people seem to get over video games than many other products.  I've never seen a forum full of people this angry about a cancelled vacuum cleaner or a shut-down headphone manufacturer, but I think this speaks to the success of KSP (and other video games people get mad over).  They are good enough games that people get very, very invested in them and care this much.  Honestly it's a testament to how darn good KSP is, now that I think about it.

Edited May 23 by LHACK4142
That said, I think we need to collectively touch some grass.

[Kerbart]

13 minutes ago, LHACK4142 said:

It's kinda interesting how much angrier people seem to get over video games than many other products.  I've never seen a forum full of people this angry about a cancelled vacuum cleaner or a shut-down headphone manufacturer, but I think this speaks to the success of KSP (and other video games people get mad over).  They are good enough games that people get very, very invested in them and care this much.  Honestly it's a testament to how darn good KSP is, now that I think about it.

it's done a lot easier with video games but that doesn't mean it's not happening elsewhere. Kickstarter is filled with projects (especially board games) that never fulfilled their promises (I've been on one or two myself) with exactly—or worse—similar false advertising: prototypes with photoshopped/faked performance, products that don't work ("yes we promised it would work on android but we only got it to work on ios. kbye") and trust me, there were plenty of people seriously ticked off about this one:

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/money/cars/2021/10/21/elio-motors-took-millions-customer-deposits-never-delivered-car/5930672001/

 

[Ker Ball One]

4 hours ago, Kerbart said:

it's done a lot easier with video games but that doesn't mean it's not happening elsewhere. Kickstarter is filled with projects (especially board games) that never fulfilled their promises (I've been on one or two myself) with exactly—or worse—similar false advertising: prototypes with photoshopped/faked performance, products that don't work ("yes we promised it would work on android but we only got it to work on ios. kbye") and trust me, there were plenty of people seriously ticked off about this one:

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/money/cars/2021/10/21/elio-motors-took-millions-customer-deposits-never-delivered-car/5930672001/

 

I think the key difference is buying a finished product versus buying promises.  Your example that Kickstarter products also have this issue, speaks to this fundamental distinction.

Maybe it's a fairly modern phenomenon where capitalism meets the internet and the lines between buying a product and buying into an investment become blurred.

Crowdfunding game development is essentially what Early Access is.  It becomes an investment, it becomes buying into a promise rather than an existing, tangible item. 

There's a reason why so many hardcore zealots exist here and are very reminiscent of crypto bros.  There is no objective review of a finished product, merely speculation based on hopes and dreams.  Unfortunately, real money was spent on the speculation.

Edited May 24 by Ker Ball One

[MARL_Mk1]

A question just came to my mind.

Okay, let's say we assume 100% the game and it's development as a whole are completely dead once they drop that supposed last patch they still seem to be working on.

What happens with the game's status as Early Acces title? Is Take Two legally allowed to just, cut it's development short, get rid of any traces of promises and roadmaps, slap a 1.0 on it, and release it on Steam as if it had left Early Access taking everyone else's money?

Surely not... right?




Right?

[Infinite Aerospace]

Yeah unfortunately there's no real *requirement* for an Early Access game to be completed. It even states that on Steam when you first go to buy it.

[Tony Tony Chopper]

58 minutes ago, MARL_Mk1 said:

A question just came to my mind.

Okay, let's say we assume 100% the game and it's development as a whole are completely dead once they drop that supposed last patch they still seem to be working on.

What happens with the game's status as Early Acces title? Is Take Two legally allowed to just, cut it's development short, get rid of any traces of promises and roadmaps, slap a 1.0 on it, and release it on Steam as if it had left Early Access taking everyone else's money?

Surely not... right?




Right?

Read there: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/store/earlyaccess



"Q: What happens if I don't complete my Early Access game?

A: Sometimes things don't work out as you planned, and you may need to discontinue development of your Early Access game before you are ready for a V1.0 release. If this happens, you can contact Valve to figure out the next steps. There are two options:

If your Early Access game is playable and well received, but you're unable to develop it to the point where you feel it warrants a full V1.0 release, then we can keep your game on the Store, but otherwise remove it from Early Access. This will remove the Early Access tag and Early Access Q&A displayed on your game’s Store Page, but not start the launch visibility that comes with definitively releasing your game out of Early Access. This would be a permanent change; we aren’t able to reenable Early Access again later, so please consider this option carefully before contacting us with the details. In this case, you should let your community know about your decision to leave Early Access via a forum post or news event.

Alternatively, we can remove your Early Access game from Steam. Before reaching out, you should read about the process of removing a game from Steam and take a moment to carefully consider whether or not pulling your game down is actually the right choice. Are you acting based on an emotional response to negative feedback, or is retiring your game the appropriate next step? We take our relationship with customers seriously, so if you choose to cancel development of a game and retire it from the store, we will not republish it again later and we may offer refunds to any users who purchased it. Treating customers fairly is the most important thing to us. "

The "and" is important here. There is no word on 'recent reviews' versus 'all reviews', so 'playable' might be a little bit more subjective but 'well received' doesn't mean 'mixed' to me. I also don't read where someone else could decide whether it comes out of early access forcefully. But read the guidelines for yourself, I'm not into that bureaucracy stuff.

[PDCWolf]

2 hours ago, MARL_Mk1 said:

A question just came to my mind.

Okay, let's say we assume 100% the game and it's development as a whole are completely dead once they drop that supposed last patch they still seem to be working on.

What happens with the game's status as Early Acces title? Is Take Two legally allowed to just, cut it's development short, get rid of any traces of promises and roadmaps, slap a 1.0 on it, and release it on Steam as if it had left Early Access taking everyone else's money?

Surely not... right?




Right?

The answer is Yes. At any point in development you're just allowed to say "yep, that's it, this is 1.0." For proof, look at StarForge (the game, not the celeb prebuilt pc brand) and other games by the same developer. The only process by which Steam would care is a proper delisting. If you cancel development AND THEN delist an EA game from Steam, they will offer automatic refunds.

 

[MARL_Mk1]

2 hours ago, Tony Tony Chopper said:

Read there: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/store/earlyaccess



"Q: What happens if I don't complete my Early Access game?

A: Sometimes things don't work out as you planned, and you may need to discontinue development of your Early Access game before you are ready for a V1.0 release. If this happens, you can contact Valve to figure out the next steps. There are two options:

If your Early Access game is playable and well received, but you're unable to develop it to the point where you feel it warrants a full V1.0 release, then we can keep your game on the Store, but otherwise remove it from Early Access. This will remove the Early Access tag and Early Access Q&A displayed on your game’s Store Page, but not start the launch visibility that comes with definitively releasing your game out of Early Access. This would be a permanent change; we aren’t able to reenable Early Access again later, so please consider this option carefully before contacting us with the details. In this case, you should let your community know about your decision to leave Early Access via a forum post or news event.

Alternatively, we can remove your Early Access game from Steam. Before reaching out, you should read about the process of removing a game from Steam and take a moment to carefully consider whether or not pulling your game down is actually the right choice. Are you acting based on an emotional response to negative feedback, or is retiring your game the appropriate next step? We take our relationship with customers seriously, so if you choose to cancel development of a game and retire it from the store, we will not republish it again later and we may offer refunds to any users who purchased it. Treating customers fairly is the most important thing to us. "

The "and" is important here. There is no word on 'recent reviews' versus 'all reviews', so 'playable' might be a little bit more subjective but 'well received' doesn't mean 'mixed' to me. I also don't read where someone else could decide whether it comes out of early access forcefully. But read the guidelines for yourself, I'm not into that bureaucracy stuff.

Thanks!

Will do my part and change my positive review then. Screw those Take-Two idiots.