T2 interactive layoffs

[Majorjim!]

 

[Vanamonde]

Keep the language clean, please. 

[Max Que]

At what point does a SW project become unsupportable?

The last major rev. of KSP 1 added features no one I'm aware of asked for, and broke the game.  It took a few minor revisions before I felt it was playable.  When new additions cause basic game systems to fail, your project has crossed a line.  A fresh start made a lot of sense then, it was pushing the limit.

KSP 2 started with a terrain compression system that demanded unreasonable hardware performance.  There have been (and still are) basic game systems that simply do now work correctly, or are totally absent.  The basic physics of the game are not working, and there is a foundational problem. 

Landed ships fall through moons,  orbit lines disappear and vehicle status changes without apparent reason.  Phantom forces cause space stations to roll and rovers to stop and jump.  I'm not getting the illusion that my ship (and crew) 'exist' in any persistent way.  This prevents the level of immersion I still get from modded KSP 1.  The Steam charts tell the story.  It's not quite playable, but it is so close.

Adding features on top of lingering foundational issues does not result in a supportable product.  Maybe having to rework the compression / performance issues took a toll on getting a solid physics base debugged?  Sadly, the beauty of KSP 2 have taken a lot of shine off of KSP 1, and reducing my KSP play time.  The state of KSP 2 is actually hurting my overall KSP experience.

Lets see what the KSP modders can do to fix the mistakes. 

[Starwaster]

@Max Que The game is in alpha, at best. Not even in beta. It's still in development.

[Stewcooker]

Just now, Starwaster said:

@Max Que The game is in alpha, at best. Not even in beta. It's still in development.

Only for 60 more days...

[Ryaja]

On 4/17/2024 at 8:41 AM, Nerdy_Mike said:

Development of KSP2 is full speed ahead. 

I can't speak to any of the reported news, but the team here is working hard on the next update as well as colonies. 

And when the world needed him most, he disappeared (for now)

[Kerbart]

The most positive scenario is that the staff of Intercept gets folded into another studio and that the work continues. Likely, specialists whose skills are limited across games will be left out. It's hard to imagine this will keep the quality of the game at the consistent high level we're used to, and update frequency will drop.

And that's the best case scenario.

 

[Great Liao]

13 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

The most positive scenario is that the staff of Intercept gets folded into another studio and that the work continues. Likely, specialists whose skills are limited across games will be left out. It's hard to imagine this will keep the quality of the game at the consistent high level we're used to, and update frequency will drop.

And that's the best case scenario.

 

Unfortunatley those almost never happen.

[Lowi_Sace]

On 5/1/2024 at 5:30 PM, Mephisto81 said:

/esd.wa.gov/about-employees/WARN

• The WARN notice states that Take Two interactive is starting to layoff 70 workers in Seattle, beginning of 2024-06-28.
• Intercept Games is based in Seattle and owned by Private Division, a Take Two Interactive Label for funding smaller games.
• Take two does not appear to have other offices than Intercept Games in Seattle
• The size of Intercept Games is listed as 61 or 60 members here or here
• Several members of the IG team have made public, that they are being laid off or are open for jobs.
• The career site of Intercept games no longer has working job openings
• Apart from KSP2, Intercept Games is only working a second title, with a unspecified number of people on it.
• According to steam charts, KSP1 Player base is currently at 1.925 players, 1925 for a 24hr peak and 19.149 for an all-time high
• According to steam charts, KSP2 Player base is currently at 430 players, 486 for a 24hr peak and 25.724 for an all-time high

This does not look good at all, the long silence now is also not a good sign. I fear this may be the end. Was so hoping this game would live up to its potential 

[Scarecrow71]

56 minutes ago, Lowi_Sace said:

This does not look good at all, the long silence now is also not a good sign. I fear this may be the end. Was so hoping this game would live up to its potential 

@Dakota tweeted this morning that he might no longer be employed.

@blackrack tweeted and confirmed that he was let go.

I doubt we actually get any official word from the organization.  We will instead have to wait for the unfortunate nuggets getting dropped by former employees.  Sigh.

[herbal space program]

1 hour ago, Scarecrow71 said:

@Dakota tweeted this morning that he might no longer be employed.

@blackrack tweeted and confirmed that he was let go.

I doubt we actually get any official word from the organization.  We will instead have to wait for the unfortunate nuggets getting dropped by former employees.  Sigh.

Wow, so sad. I was mentally prepared to  have to wait a long time before KSP2 became all the things we were hoping  it would  be, but I really didn't think they would just pull the plug on it so soon. If they really choose not to develop it any further, I just hope that somehow the IP will find its way into more nurturing hands by and by.  I for one would be happy to pitch in to support a crowdfunded development effort on the part of the game's stellar modding community, but I suppose that's just a pipe dream at this point.

[Jimbodiah]

On 4/17/2024 at 4:41 PM, Nerdy_Mike said:

Development of KSP2 is full speed ahead. 

So, no development then.

This monstrosity has been out for 2 years and it is still a pile of excrement.  Some nice con-artists running this show, milking as many people with false promisses before closing shop.

Glad I never spent a penny on KSP 2.

[NexusHelium]

4 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

@Dakota tweeted this morning that he might no longer be employed.

@blackrack tweeted and confirmed that he was let go.

I doubt we actually get any official word from the organization.  We will instead have to wait for the unfortunate nuggets getting dropped by former employees.  Sigh

@Nerdy_Mike too now.  ..

I'm ready for anything at this point. Still waiting on an official statement but even I can see when things are getting worse.

[dlrk]

There will be no official statement lol

[Jimbodiah]

Official notice might be this site being gone next time you visit.

[NexusHelium]

Just now, Jimbodiah said:

Official notice might be this site being gone next time you visit.

See the dev tracker

[Rudolf Meier]

On 5/2/2024 at 1:49 AM, Max Que said:

At what point does a SW project become unsupportable?

 

On 5/2/2024 at 2:17 AM, Starwaster said:

@Max Que The game is in alpha, at best. Not even in beta. It's still in development.

That says all...

The software project becomes unsupportable, if version 2 of it is in alpha, at best... after 5 (7?) years of development.

 

No idea why this should be so hard (and I am developing software for over 20 years now... so I know what I am talking about). ... I think one of the main problems today is, that today we have "meetings" and no solutions... we try to be "polite" and not address what is crap... and that both developers and managers don't try to achieve a goal but simply maintain their reputation!

[DeadJohn]

4 hours ago, Rudolf Meier said:

No idea why this should be so hard (and I am developing software for over 20 years now... so I know what I am talking about). ... I think one of the main problems today is, that today we have "meetings" and no solutions... we try to be "polite" and not address what is crap... and that both developers and managers don't try to achieve a goal but simply maintain their reputation!

I am very interested in how KSP2 became so far behind schedule. I am not at all shocked, though, because so many software projects are unsuccessful. Late/failed software is not a "today" problem, it's been happening "forever".

I've seen teams deliver a good result, then the same team shifts to a new project and fails horribly. Same people, same working conditions. A missed key requirement, bad architecture decision, or arbitrary executive decision can doom a project. (my experience is mostly GIS mapping and business workflow apps, not games)

[herbal space program]

19 minutes ago, DeadJohn said:

I am very interested in how KSP2 became so far behind schedule. I am not at all shocked, though, because so many software projects are unsuccessful. Late/failed software is not a "today" problem, it's been happening "forever".

I've seen teams deliver a good result, then the same team shifts to a new project and fails horribly. Same people, same working conditions. A missed key requirement, bad architecture decision, or arbitrary executive decision can doom a project. (my experience is mostly GIS mapping and business workflow apps, not games)

When you consider the inherent difficulty of the modeling problem, it's not so hard to imagine that they might have painted themselves into a couple of horrible corners that required scrapping a whole bunch of work and starting over. What other game is there that involves real-time simulation of so many complexly interconnected physics elements simultaneously? A  massive tree of elastically connected inertial elements, aerodynamic forces, and heating on top of that.

[mattihase]

I wouldn't be 100% surprised if our initial expectations for KSP moving into a custom engine was for a while the plan, but had to be dropped and things started again in unity.

 

Of course entirely speculation and we'll likely never find out.

that could certainly explain where a lot of the time went.

[Ker Ball One]

This is a problem with the entire business model of Early Access.

No matter how many disclaimer they put, or how many people remind everyone that this game is "only Early Access", "in Alpha", and "to be patient"... People's expectation are set by the money they pay.

People paid full game prices for a game that only had 20% of the features of the first game, was full of bugs, and that had very little chance of success from the start.  Despite the rampant optimism.  

The company did not give this game the resources it needed to stand on its own, instead they relied on the Goodwill of the first game.  And they also relied on free labor from the modding community to fix the game.

Edited May 7 by Ker Ball One

[Majorjim!]

1 hour ago, Ker Ball One said:

This is a problem with the entire business model of Early Access.

No matter how many disclaimer they put, or how many people remind everyone that this game is "only Early Access", "in Alpha", and "to be patient"... People's expectation are set by the money they pay.

People paid full game prices for a game that only had 20% of the features of the first game, was full of bugs, and that had very little chance of success from the start.  Despite the rampant optimism.  

The company did not give this game the resources it needed to stand on its own, instead they relied on the Goodwill of the first game.  And they also relied on free labor from the modding community to fix the game.

Agreed. The price was a kick in the teeth and my heart sank when I saw not only was it going to be an F’ing early access game but the performance was terrible and the requirements where a joke.. it’s been one disaster after another… 

[NexusHelium]

23 minutes ago, Majorjim! said:

it’s been one disaster after another… 

Make sure you don't forget the positive moments though. I am my hopeful self solely for that reason. Sure the game has it's issues and sure it hasn't been great the whole time but Laythe? The atmospheres? The clouds ()? The UI? The music? They're all so good (UI could use a little tuning but overall, it's a lot better than the first)!

The list goes on, but I digress. A lot of "realists" (which, you gotta admit, the definition of that word needs to be reworked) look at the negatives of the game and say something like "It'll never get better with all the mistakes they've made so far." but I simply turn my head the other direction to see the overwhelming number of positives that the game has and say the opposite. Something like "Wow. This game has it's problems but look at all these things that keep getting better! I'm sure the future will turn out."

Some people say that behavior is naive or delusional or "not looking at the facts" but I will say yet again (very controversially) that I am simply just looking at the exact same facts and choosing to look at them in a more hopeful way, because none of the facts that we are presented necessarily give us rational reason to think the game will never turn out or it is a disaster or even that the game is good and will turn out. There is no "realistic" in this scenario, and the future is notoriously unpredictable. And not to mention that they and we as a community were getting better before the news hit and now things are back in shambles lol.

Overall, if you choose to look at the negatives constantly then the game will seem like a disaster. But if you look behind you and see all the good the game has brought and the amazing people behind it then you'll start to notice that this game maybe isn't as bad as you thought it was.

hoo boy was that too many words  

Edited May 7 by NexusHelium

[gluckez]

41 minutes ago, NexusHelium said:

Overall, if you choose to look at the negatives constantly then the game will seem like a disaster.

Honestly, at this point, unless I hear something along the lines of "We're ok, on this date we'll push the next update and then we'll continue working on the rest of the roadmap for the game you already paid for", I'm going to assume that the corporate overlords shut it down and scammed all of us. I've always been very positive and patient, but seeing the news like that with no further updates is enough for me to assume the worst.

This isn't a problem with the dev team, this is management and shareholders, and they don't give a * about you and your favorite game. this should be illegal, and I hope I'm wrong, but I lost hope in Take 2, and I'm never buying anything from them again because I simply don't trust that they'll actually give me what I paid for.

[herbal space program]

30 minutes ago, NexusHelium said:

The list goes on, but I digress. A lot of "realists" (which, you gotta admit, the definition of that word needs to be reworked) look at the negatives of the game and say something like "It'll never get better with all the mistakes they've made so far." but I simply turn my head the other direction to see the overwhelming number of positives that the game has and say the opposite. Something like "Wow. This game has it's problems but look at all these things that keep getting better! I'm sure the future will turn out."

I think a fair number of those "realists" didn't actually play the game enough to recognize any of the significant improvements over KSP1.  I'm totally with you on a number of the things you mentioned, including a generally better design of the UI (other than the maneuver node system), which still had various rough spots but nonetheless made life significantly easier. Resource transfers for example were way better in the new game IMO, and although not everybody loves the new parts manager, I think it was a heck of a lot better than having to right-click on some tiny part on a vessel that is spinning out of control. I liked the general behavior of the VAB interface as well, because in KSP1 I frequently encountered situations where it was next to impossible for me to place a part in the middle of a complex build,  and that did not happen for me in KSP2. The camera behavior is another story, but I'm sure that would have gotten fixed eventually.  And the procedural wings were awesome! It's a pity the FS  update provided exactly zero incentive to build and fly planes, because all that was working pretty well in KSP2 after the first few bug patches IMO. As I said in another thread, I was actually pretty optimistic about the game in general  after playing through FS, but then the axe  fell. If they really just abandon it at this point, I think it may have less to do with pure marketing calculus than perhaps with some harsh realities about the prospects of them ever getting the physics engine up to speed to the point where it could support all these fancy new features that would presumably require part counts in the multiple thousands. It was pretty obvious from playing the game even in the 500 part range that an order of magnitude improvement in performance would have been required, and maybe that was just plain unpossible.