Is A Totally Objective State Of Mind (for scifi aliens) Even Practical?

[Spacescifi]

I was considering objectivity versus subjectivity, and came to the conclusion that for all the negatives that come with the potentials of subjectivity (believing in stuff without proof that may not even be real), there perhaps ARE some reasons why having subjectivity can be used in a positive way.

Assumptions are often wrong, but on occasion our assumptions, ergo are intuitions, are correct, as truth reveals later. Perhaps this is why we at times blindly make assumptions since we learn to lean on them so much rather than have the dread or fear that comes with total objectivity (which means you assume nothing, instead relying on known data and researching and testing what is unknown).

 

Main question: Is total objectivity practical for a scifi alien civilization?

How different would life be compared to our own?

I imagine one big change would be that persons would be more honest, even brutally so.

If so, I would imagine that if living among humans such an alien individual would enjoy having a bit more privacy but would clash with humans annoyed over their brutal honesty until they learned to tone it down for humans.

 

If on the other hand, all subjectivity and assumptions are is intuition in action, in other words, an educated guess, then the answer is absolutely not.

No civilization could arise without the ability to make educated guesses or gambles even if they are often wrong... since they only need to be right once to make a difference and build upon it with futher correct guesses.

You need data even to make educated guesses, and you need to be able to make educated guesses when doing science not done before.

 

So I guess I answered my own question lol.

 

The only way a totally objective being could exist is if they were all knowing.

The easiest way a life form of this nature could exist in scifi would be a type of AI... perfect for the data it has, but asking for more and beyond that and it cannot make any decision as it lacks data.

Edited June 17 by Spacescifi

[SunlitZelkova]

11 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

The only way a totally objective being could exist is if they were all knowing.

The easiest way a life form of this nature could exist in scifi would be a type of AI... perfect for the data it has, but asking for more and beyond that and it cannot make any decision as it lacks data.

Another way is if you lower the context of "all knowing."

For example, it would probably be pretty easy to make an AI that is "all knowing"... when it comes to folding clean clothes.

I've struggled with the all-knowing being trope and concluded it isn't possible to express with the means available to our physical bodies. Because the only way we can write about it is as if it is a being loosely akin to animals on Earth; regardless of whether the being is immortal or omniscient it is basically just an Earth animal with superpowers.

But being an Earth animal involves giving up a certain degree of knowledge. You accept you don't know things and thus interact with the world to gain them, whether it be talking to the mortal who discovers you or reaching into the temporal world and playing god.

Thus if a truly all knowing being/life form exists, we could never know it. At least not in its all knowing form. Only in an illusory, lesser form adapted to basically mess with humans. A Cosmic Joker if you will.

[kerbiloid]

The all-knowing thing knows, why did OP ask this question, and hides.

[Nuke]

its not something that could evolve naturally. perhaps a hive mind or an ai or some other construct designed specifically for that purpose.

[Shpaget]

23 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

The only way a totally objective being could exist is if they were all knowing.

I'd imagine that omniscience would be very challenging to write. An omniscient being or culture would encounter no challenges, no surprises, no twists, nothing new to discover or experience. How do you write a story with such a culture without boring your reader to tears?

[ColdJ]

On 6/18/2024 at 3:58 AM, Spacescifi said:

Main question: Is total objectivity practical for a scifi alien civilization?

Total objectivity is near impossible for any intelligence capable of learning, Even if presented with only dry facts to make a decision from, to understand the facts you need to have had experience with the topic to gain any wisdom and that gaining of understanding will always be subjective due to your own experience. This is true of AI as well, which is why they spend so much time feeding them data and giving them parameters. Because real AI, not just something that Parrots information, needs to have comparisons of what has be found out before in order to draw new conclusions. And those conclusions are based on what it has been fed, as no individual realistic intelligence could know everything there is to know.

So to answer, no it is not practical.

[DDE]

I'll parrot Shafarevich: objectivity as it is commonly understood involves the application of the methods developed in the "hard sciences", which rely on a lot of assumptions in order to establish a common reality, such as the SI system of measurements. However, when applied outside of that domain, objectivity becomes pure reductionism, allergic to nuance and individuality.

Should one truly aspire to force their imperfect, subjective mind - whether naturally evolved or built by other imperfect minds - to operate in the deeply unnatural objective way? Especially when looking for solutions to inherently subjective problems?

 

[kerbiloid]

Entropy doesn't bless the pure determinism.

[ColdJ]

8 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Entropy doesn't bless the pure determinism.

An Ent trophy is subjective.

[kerbiloid]

18 minutes ago, ColdJ said:

An Ent trophy is subjective.

Better deal with Bombadeal.