Actually excited about the future of KSP 2

[Vl3d]

KSP 2 will never be dead while KSP 1 exists. It will rise again like the Phoenix.

[Bej Kerman]

2 hours ago, Vl3d said:

KSP 2 will never be dead while KSP 1 exists. It will rise again like the Phoenix.

When?

[Dakitess]

Yeah, when ? Don't you feel that the Forum and all the platform dealing with KSP (the whole franchise) definitely loose some momentum since KSP2 ? Not even since its final failure but even before, during its catastrophic dev ?

I dare to say that, actually, on our french platforms (Forum + Discord + Twitter essentially), it accelerated the long decline even from the announcement back in 2019 : people were eager for a new KSP, more excited than ever and then you know the story, it got delayed, multiple times, we got some bad news, and during the final year of releasing visuals and enduring a very (very) bad communication, we were a majority to sense something bad approaching. Like, hear me : even during the last year before KSP2 anticipated access, the momentum of the french community actually decreased. What an achievement ! And then of course, the release and all the drama killed any hope.

But more importantly, all of us players who were waiting for it as a new milestone to spend some thousands of hours, kept our eyes off the original KSP1, meaning no news, no crafts, no challenge, no adventures, no screenshots, etc.

KSP2 damaged the whole KSP franchise and its community. Not only KSP2 itself : this is the main failure of this tentative, and this is a shame, a real damn shape to perform such an achievement. Seriously. Developing a new game and doing so bad that it damages the first successful one-of-its-kind opus. Hahaha, it sounds like a bad joke.

Time might help people getting back to KSP1 : I am not ready to do so, for now. The last visual mods and updates associated might help getting back in a year or so.

[DVQuill]

10 hours ago, Dakitess said:

Yeah, when ? Don't you feel that the Forum and all the platform dealing with KSP (the whole franchise) definitely loose some momentum since KSP2 ? Not even since its final failure but even before, during its catastrophic dev ?

I dare to say that, actually, on our french platforms (Forum + Discord + Twitter essentially), it accelerated the long decline even from the announcement back in 2019 : people were eager for a new KSP, more excited than ever and then you know the story, it got delayed, multiple times, we got some bad news, and during the final year of releasing visuals and enduring a very (very) bad communication, we were a majority to sense something bad approaching. Like, hear me : even during the last year before KSP2 anticipated access, the momentum of the french community actually decreased. What an achievement ! And then of course, the release and all the drama killed any hope.

But more importantly, all of us players who were waiting for it as a new milestone to spend some thousands of hours, kept our eyes off the original KSP1, meaning no news, no crafts, no challenge, no adventures, no screenshots, etc.

KSP2 damaged the whole KSP franchise and its community. Not only KSP2 itself : this is the main failure of this tentative, and this is a shame, a real damn shape to perform such an achievement. Seriously. Developing a new game and doing so bad that it damages the first successful one-of-its-kind opus. Hahaha, it sounds like a bad joke.

Time might help people getting back to KSP1 : I am not ready to do so, for now. The last visual mods and updates associated might help getting back in a year or so.

Though I do agree with you that the development issues did create some sort of decline, I think these past few weeks have been cathartic for some. Seems to me like many folks have accepted that KSP2 is dead, and have moved on (or back I should say), to KSP1. There is a bit of a resurgence of excitement in the air with people from this community coming together to enjoy some new mods like deferred rendering, parallax, etc., not to mention the modpacks people are creating to get the most out of KSP1. I myself am excited for a few contract projects that people have been talking about. 

There is no doubt that KSP2 has damaged the franchise as a whole, and I understand that KSP1 has a bunch of issues (part drifting being my own personal favourite ), but overall I do sincerely believe KSP1 is still a game worth talking about. Entre temps, je continue à espérer que les gens continuerons à revenir à la communauté de KSP1, et que nous pouvons la retourner à ce qu'elle était avant tout cette niaiserie avec KSP2. Translation to English: In the meantime, I continue to hope that people will continue to come back to the KSP1 community, and that we can return it to what it was before all this KSP2 nonsense.

Edited July 17 by DVQuill

[Scarecrow71]

21 hours ago, Vl3d said:

KSP 2 will never be dead while KSP 1 exists.

That is not true.  KSP2 is dead, and will remain dead regardless of whether or not KSP1 exists.  By your logic, any sequel that is dead is technically not so long as the original exists.  That's like saying someone who died isn't really dead simply because their parents or antecedents are still alive.

21 hours ago, Vl3d said:

It will rise again like the Phoenix.

We may at some point get another sequel, but the current iteration will not rise from the ashes.  It's a foregone conclusion that anyone who even attempts to revive it will have to start with a brand new codebase, leaving nothing of the original KSP2 intact.

1 hour ago, DVQuill said:

but overall I do sincerely believe its still a game worth talking about

The only talking point about KSP2, which is continued to be beaten to death, is that it is dead.  There is literally nothing else to discuss on the game until/unless someone comes out with a new version of it.

1 hour ago, DVQuill said:

Entre temps, je continue à espérer que les gens continuerons à revenir à la communauté de KSP1, et que nous pouvons la retourner à ce qu'elle était avant tout cette niaiserie avec KSP2.

English forum, mate.  But, for posterity, the translation:  In the meantime, I continue to hope that people will continue to come back to the KSP1 community, and that we can return it to what it was before all this KSP2 nonsense.

[DVQuill]

1 hour ago, Scarecrow71 said:

The only talking point about KSP2, which is continued to be beaten to death, is that it is dead.  There is literally nothing else to discuss on the game until/unless someone comes out with a new version of it.

Apologies, I should have been clearer, I definitely meant KSP1 is still a game worth talking about. I wholeheartedly agree with you, KSP2 is dead, and not really worth talking about at this point.

More apologies for the extra bit of French, I've edited my post to include your translation. 

Edited July 17 by DVQuill

[MarcAbaddon]

I agree that KSP 1 is still worth talking and playing, and that modding it has picked up some steam again.

At the same time it is hard to overestimate the damage caused by the KSP 2 fiasco - IMO the primary damage is that the stop of development for KSP 1 is almost certainly linked to the plans to release KSP 2. There could very well have been more DLC and content patches otherwise.

[cocoscacao]

26 minutes ago, MarcAbaddon said:

the stop of development for KSP 1 is almost certainly linked to the plans to release KSP 2.

Ehr, according to SZ video, quite the opposite is true. 

[Alpha_star]

1 hour ago, MarcAbaddon said:

I agree that KSP 1 is still worth talking and playing, and that modding it has picked up some steam again.

At the same time it is hard to overestimate the damage caused by the KSP 2 fiasco - IMO the primary damage is that the stop of development for KSP 1 is almost certainly linked to the plans to release KSP 2. There could very well have been more DLC and content patches otherwise.

Of course KSP2 made a huge impact and in some ways split the community and etc. At first this was indeed the game’s fault of being released when it isn’t supposed to but after a few months people start to focus less on the game itself and shifted the debate towards things like developers, game studios and PD and T2. From then on few actually paid attention to the game’s actual state. It’s like “facts and actual players’ reviews aside KSP2 is really bad and the devs should be hated and the game should go away” and something like that. What people consider as the impact that KSP2 made might actually be a cause of certain haters’ hatred or some other community shenanigans rather than a direct result of the game’s development.

[PDCWolf]

On 7/18/2024 at 9:13 AM, Alpha_star said:

Of course KSP2 made a huge impact and in some ways split the community and etc. At first this was indeed the game’s fault of being released when it isn’t supposed to but after a few months people start to focus less on the game itself and shifted the debate towards things like developers, game studios and PD and T2. From then on few actually paid attention to the game’s actual state. It’s like “facts and actual players’ reviews aside KSP2 is really bad and the devs should be hated and the game should go away” and something like that. What people consider as the impact that KSP2 made might actually be a cause of certain haters’ hatred or some other community shenanigans rather than a direct result of the game’s development.

No hater could make a mess this big. And that's already looking past the simple fact that there's little to no haters. The game was that much of a mess , and when it stopped being an unplayable mess, it still was a mediocre mess, and the speed of development was a mess, and the PR around the game was a mess, and the team trying to communicate was a mess. The only thing they did in a somewhat timely manner (and promptly left completely unattended past assigning some middlemen between reports and devs and adding an emoji to patch notes) was the bug report subforum... which in itself not being there from the beginning was already another mess.

[AstroEvada]

On 7/16/2024 at 11:43 PM, Vl3d said:

KSP 2 will never be dead while KSP 1 exists. It will rise again like the Phoenix.

Eventually, one must realise that extreme optimism may give way into...to put it in the simplest terms, delusion.

[Alpha_star]

On 7/20/2024 at 7:14 AM, PDCWolf said:

there's little to no haters.

Really? I might disagree.

Just take a look at the subreddit, especially before September last year. Everyday there would at least be one player count post showing how few people are playing the game where as the clue comes from a sole Steamdb capture. Then there are multiple people endlessly personally attacking the developers and some random discord/forum users for "not realizing how doomed KSP2 is". They have the right to dislike the game but their hates have gone too far to be considered as disliking, and some if not a lot of them never ever played KSP2. Sure they are not the only "bad people" out there but they sure did a lot in rising the community's hate and aggressiveness toward KSP2.

[para 9]

7 hours ago, Alpha_star said:

Really? I might disagree.

Just take a look at the subreddit, especially before September last year. Everyday there would at least be one player count post showing how few people are playing the game where as the clue comes from a sole Steamdb capture. Then there are multiple people endlessly personally attacking the developers and some random discord/forum users for "not realizing how doomed KSP2 is". They have the right to dislike the game but their hates have gone too far to be considered as disliking, and some if not a lot of them never ever played KSP2. Sure they are not the only "bad people" out there but they sure did a lot in rising the community's hate and aggressiveness toward KSP2.

I never bought KSP2. From the start, I knew it was a doomed project. I voiced my opinion on the subreddit (and was permanently banned as a result).

The player count was low and falling, as evidenced by SteamDB. That's just a fact. 

The "haters" were simply realists who have been proven correct by the passage of time. 

[Sirad]

23 minutes ago, para 9 said:

The "haters" were simply realists who have been proven correct by the passage of time. 

We have to accept that there will be always a percentage of those who still will hype this game and tell you 'everything is fine' 'had so much fun' etc.
There is nothing wrong with beating a Dead Horse in Hope that it may get up someday again, even if its actually only a scattered pile of cracked withered bones...

I had smelled that and havent bought it, but i dont feel 'good' (except the 50€ not wasted) now because i had seen it coming that way. i only feel grief for the way that game went and also for those who still cant let go. Just let go, its so easy, life has so much to give, more than having to whack that pile of Bones in hope that it makes poof and rises as a glorious arabic racehorse.

That wont happen.

Never.

 

[PDCWolf]

8 hours ago, Alpha_star said:

Really? I might disagree.

Just take a look at the subreddit, especially before September last year. Everyday there would at least be one player count post showing how few people are playing the game where as the clue comes from a sole Steamdb capture. Then there are multiple people endlessly personally attacking the developers and some random discord/forum users for "not realizing how doomed KSP2 is". They have the right to dislike the game but their hates have gone too far to be considered as disliking, and some if not a lot of them never ever played KSP2. Sure they are not the only "bad people" out there but they sure did a lot in rising the community's hate and aggressiveness toward KSP2.

Posting playercounts is not hating. It's stating a fact. Sure, it got tiring once everyone was doing it, but that still didn't change the fact that most of those posts reflected 100 people playing the game, which should be a clear message to the devs and above, which obviously got ignored. As for "sole clue being SteamDB", the math more or less points to steam being 75% of the total player and ownership base. If there was 100 steam players, the other platforms all together, along with launcherless people, should be about 25.

Now, there's the fact that you invalidate other criticisms because "haters made the hate and aggressiveness rise." No. People have their own brain to produce reasons to hate KSP2, and a lot of people have their own brain to produce reasons to not hate it. KSP2 did more than enough to convince even the most stalwart people that it, or its development cycle, was garbage. It took all the way to FS! for the steam reviews to rise above mixed, only to promptly fall back and deeper once they completely cut off communication and then take a further plunge once the rumors of closure started flying.

Now, from a simple numeric standpoint. >400.000 people own KSP2. How many hater posts did you see? 100? 1000?

[Yakuzi]

14 hours ago, Alpha_star said:

Really? I might disagree.

Just take a look at the subreddit, especially before September last year. Everyday there would at least be one player count post showing how few people are playing the game where as the clue comes from a sole Steamdb capture. Then there are multiple people endlessly personally attacking the developers and some random discord/forum users for "not realizing how doomed KSP2 is". They have the right to dislike the game but their hates have gone too far to be considered as disliking, and some if not a lot of them never ever played KSP2. Sure they are not the only "bad people" out there but they sure did a lot in rising the community's hate and aggressiveness toward KSP2.

You're conflating criticism with hate.

[Alpha_star]

1 hour ago, Yakuzi said:

You're conflating criticism with hate.

Well there's the constructive type of critism that's just discussing about the negatives. And there's also a destructive/toxic type in which it's just pure bashing and hating. Critism is not bad when it isn't destructive, but if it does then it would infect the others (as least that's what I see on Reddit for 'I used to play KSP2 but from others I now realize it's garbage' and stuff like it).

[mc04]

3 hours ago, Alpha_star said:

Well there's the constructive type of critism that's just discussing about the negatives. And there's also a destructive/toxic type in which it's just pure bashing and hating. Critism is not bad when it isn't destructive, but if it does then it would infect the others (as least that's what I see on Reddit for 'I used to play KSP2 but from others I now realize it's garbage' and stuff like it).

it's not the responsibility of people who got a garbage product to make excuses for it or to try to help make it not garbage.

[kerbiloid]

On 7/17/2024 at 3:57 AM, Bej Kerman said:

On 7/17/2024 at 1:43 AM, Vl3d said:

KSP 2 will never be dead while KSP 1 exists. It will rise again like the Phoenix.

When?

Once you have killed it with fire. It's Phoenix, after all. It works this way.

[Fizzlebop Smith]

Wait what? Are we burning stuff?

The montage printer scene from office space started playing in my head.. then I realized we live I a world of digital distribution.

[WelshSteW]

 

Not 100% how legit this is, but apparently the ex Technical Director Paul Furio is doing an AMA on Reddit.

 

 

[Vexillar]

@WatchClarkBand is on the forum, btw...

This might be interesting anyway.

 

Edited July 24 by Vexillar
Triping agin.

[chefsbrian]

I look forward to the Shadowzone video on this AMA

[Yakuzi]

On 7/21/2024 at 11:24 PM, Alpha_star said:

And there's also a destructive/toxic type in which it's just pure bashing and hating.

Destructive criticism is not per definition equal to hate, that's what you're conflating.

 

[dprostock]

On 7/24/2024 at 3:07 PM, WelshSteW said:

 

Not 100% how legit this is, but apparently the ex Technical Director Paul Furio is doing an AMA on Reddit.

 

 

He is warning that after having participated in the destruction of the Kerbal franchise, at the same time as having sunk his profession, he is now going to dedicate himself to being an Uber driver, trucks in the Canadian oil industry, or failing that, going out to fish for Spider crab in Alaska. 

Of course, he does not take responsibility (as if he had ever gone to the office) and says that Nate Simpson is a cool guy (at least he seemed that way in video conferences, no idea if he bathed or wore perfume)