Research, How is it going to be Handled?

[Nimbus]

More or less out of curiosity how is Research going to be handled?

Is there a thread that discusses this?

[Zanis]

I don't think there is a thread about this any more.

I hope that the research is gonna be handled in a way that you are rewarded for going to Far off planets and sending scientific probes to sample materials But you have to have some way of communication between them to get the points. that could mean satellites or bringing the probe back to KSC for further testing.

But I know that the Dev's will Make a great game With what ever they do.

[ultrasquid]

It's come up in general terms, but not down to specifics that I recall. I'm sure SQUAD is figuring out something as part of the focus on Career Mode for v 0.20-0.21 and up.

I figure it could combine some form of investment (devoting a percentage of the budget to the R&D dept to advance your tech level) and actual tests of new technologies, which might become more reliable with repeated tests.

but that's just my speculation

[Darston]

I don't think there is a thread about this any more.

I hope that the research is gonna be handled in a way that you are rewarded for going to Far off planets and sending scientific probes to sample materials But you have to have some way of communication between them to get the points. that could mean satellites or bringing the probe back to KSC for further testing.

But I know that the Dev's will Make a great game With what ever they do.

I like what Zanis said, some things you should get only from landing on/surveying new places. Some you should get from rocket testing, like launch so many rockets with this type of parts added. Others you should get from research. Not sure exactly how that would work other than having to dump lots of money into it. Any time system is invalidated by using time warp anyway.

[malkuth]

It will be interesting to see what they come up with.

[LordPenguin]

I think it will be less of a tech tree like Civilization, and more of a tech tree like X-Com. One where you need materials and money in order to start the research. Though a sandbox game like this will be interesting to see what they come up with.

[Nimbus]

Actually I'm kinda hoping its a little of all of the above, Except there should be consequences for some choices, Going one way Precludes another way, and you just have to make it work.

To me The Ideal research schema would go some thing like this

Traditional research - Bigger, Better, Faster. Improvements to your Rockets and various Components, New types of scientific equipment, etc. Solely Money based (Actually a side Idea to this is similar to what was said before, except it uses the "Corporations" that manufacture the parts, the more parts you buy from them the more "Stuff" they can develop to sell to you, Perhaps Making them an Official supplier reduces the costs of their parts but increases the cost from others.)

Special Projects - As you explore the system, and encounter new environments and materials you Unlock projects where you can get a bonus to all craft or with mining make your own parts, or even open up new "traditional" Research Subjects, in areas like Alternative power generation, and Engine Fuels. (These would require actually acquiring said materials to work).

Scientific Projects - (Maybe random when they appear based on condition on Kerbal) Example a Scientist has convinced the Scientific Community that there is life on Duna, If you send a Mission to Duna to prove either way, you get some bonus (Perhaps in the above example you get a bonus based on the result of the test) I'm thinking these should have a time limit on them, as "Scientific Fads" only hold the public's attention for so long.

[EndlessWaves]

Personally I hope it isn't implemented as 'research'. Tech trees are horrible and I'd much rather be building infrastructure than waiting for a progress bar to fill up.

[Swifty]

I really hope research is a big part of the game. I like Nimbus' post and I love to seeing tech trees. But I also hope research is not arbitrary every day probe is in orbit +1 point. I like the idea of doing challenges for research such as completely map x planet or return samples.

Also I hope manufacturing plays a part were you have to put together different production chains to be able to produce the parts that you can use on your craft.

[tomf]

I was imagining having two currencies, Money and Science. Science is used to research parts and can be earned by achieving scientific objectives e.g. putting sensors into the upper Kerbin atmosphere, launching a space telescope or an eve sample return mission. Alternatively they can be bought using money.

[Pulstar]

What I would like to see is having certain missions unlocking research or making it faster upon completion.

[Ben Kerman]

I personally think that there should be nothing like a magical science currency, just money and maybe rare materials from other planets you spend on science teams.

Maybe have different levels of scientist trustworthiness/experience. Dubious/inexperienced science teams may scam you or do bad but are cheaper than reliable and experienced science teams.

Also I think there should be no progress bar (would be pretty useless anyway, because time warp).

[Scotius]

Samples, science data from probes, mapping other bodies - these should be sources of research progress. And maybe missions for science teams and manufacturers. For example company XYZ wants to test new engine - your mission is to install it on one of your craft, fly it around Jool and be backin given time. It can fail along the way, and you will lose the ship and crew, or maybe just a mission if you are lucky - but if you succeed you will get permanent access to this part.

[Ringer]

Time warp invalidates buildup of research points/money

Not if, like a real space program, the Kerbal nation demands regular successful missions! They won't want to fund you if you sit on your ass for a year.

Samples, science data from probes, mapping other bodies - these should be sources of research progress. And maybe missions for science teams and manufacturers. For example company XYZ wants to test new engine - your mission is to install it on one of your craft, fly it around Jool and be backin given time. It can fail along the way, and you will lose the ship and crew, or maybe just a mission if you are lucky - but if you succeed you will get permanent access to this part.

Now this I like.

The way I see it, there should be bite-sized rewards across a mission for general success. There doesn't need to be much of a tech tree, but I like progress in small steps. Extremely simple early missions will help new players get into the game as well; remember your first 50 rocket launches? How slow was your progress? I can easily see concrete rewards for:

- Build a plane that takes off

- Land a plane

- Land a plane somewhere distant (like another runway)

- Break a speed record with a plane

- Find something interesting on Kerbin

- Build a rocket that successfully launches

- Successfully return its pilot

- Build a rocket that reaches the edge of space

- Do it with a manned vessel

- Return its pilot safely

- Establish an orbit

- Orbit a manned vessel

- Return a pilot from orbit

- Establish geosynchronous orbit

- Map X% of Kerbin

- Put up some satellites (various conditions, say Kerbin needs some satellite TV and needs you to put up 6 at various inclinations)

- Send a probe to orbit the Mun

- Land a probe on the Mun

- Map the Mun

- Send a man to the Mun

- Collect rock samples (planned)

- Return him to Kerbin safely

... Same whole set for Minmus

- Escape Kerbin's SOI

... Dozens of docking missions, building a station

... Many exploration missions for Mun, Minmus (return rock samples, that's almost certainly coming)

... and all that stuff for all the other celestial bodies

Any one mission could benefit from several of these accomplishments to improve your monetary reward and/or reputation, and certain accomplishments (probe data, samples, and general observation) could contribute to research. Disastrous missions hurt your reputation with the Kerbal Nation. If the game gives you this many little things to worry about, I don't care if research comes in the form of mission-specific rewards (a certain part for a certain feat, as Scotius says) or a built-up variable (a given number of science points lets you unlock more stuff); it'd be a blast!!

P.S. The idea of a fluctuating 'reputation' score with the Kerbal Nation is my favorite implementation when it comes to budget. Destroyed equipment and killed Kerbonauts mean you're an ineffective space program and the Kresident will cut your funding; successful missions and fruitful discoveries mean you're worth funding more. Either way, you'll get some money over time, but time warp won't help you a whole lot, as doing nothing also brands you as an ineffective program and not worth funding. To further motivate you to have constant missions instead of waiting around, the mission-by-mission recompense described above should pay for most of the parts used; the constant budget stream through reputation is something you want to build to help you increase the scope of your missions.

Edited April 19, 2013 by Ringer

[Vantskruv]

I like very indeed the above statement from Ringer, this makes it really fun, and also hard!

It would also to be nice to have a more personal connection with your Kerbanouts, just to make every flight more exciting.

[Scotius]

I like very indeed the above statement from Ringer, this makes it really fun, and also hard!

It would also to be nice to have a more personal connection with your Kerbanouts, just to make every flight more exciting.

Absolutely. I would love to have crewmembers with some basic stats, that could be improved first by training (to a degree), and experience gained in space. And a bit of randomisation of their faces wouldn't hurt too (just small things like hair, shape of the eyes etc). This way if someone dies it would be harder to just shrug and say "Oh well. Back to the VAB." Loss of experienced, highly trained crew should really hurt your program. Also, to be on-topic: adding a scientist to the crew could give you bonus to research points, or improve chances of making important discovery during the mission.

[Nimbus]

I'm hoping for various lab Components (that yes require a Scientist Kerbalnugh) that you can place in orbit. Landing a Geology Lab on the Mun might be fun, there is only so much you can do with probes after all.

[Holo]

That would be good. Something like Mars Colony Simulator where Kerbals make scientific studies and perform research over time (as opposed to building, doing EVAs etc.) would be most excellent, so you have to choose a trade off between doing missions with your Kerbonauts to explore for minerals and stuff or doing science on the moonbase.

EDIT: Also, it could be something like strange moods in dwarf fortress where your kerbals require rock or liquid samples to continue doing their research.

[NuclearWarfare]

Some of you aren't putting into consideration the fact that you are running the whole space program. You choose your missions (If you have the skills and money needed) to a certain planet with a certain goal. Exploration, Mining, Drilling, etc. I don't like the idea of a set base of missions. Many of the members have done much and don't want to be placed in an order of missions.

[thetommygunyeah]

Well, if there is Career mode then I imagine there could be missions, each mission could then raise your Programs funding. Then you can research new bits or just improve other bits, making them more efficient.

[Holo]

Even in career mode I would be very disappointed with Squad if they are set missions. Stimpy's Grand Campaign (from before the great crash of 2013) is the closest to set missions I want to have.

[dom.stb]

I want more instruments, more varied mapping (different bands of EM-spectrum), sky-mapping (like hubble space telescope), probe photography. Alot is being done in the mods, but I hope science is a much much bigger part of the main game.

[Excellent]

Its a bit hard to speculate about these kinds of things when the game hasn't even got carrear mode or even materials to mine for that matter!

But based on what I think carrear mode is going to be like and what I have seen from that resource tree thingy I would guess that research would be a large source of money such as such as a private company sending up a rocket full of plants or something.

then you could use that money to buy better parts or cooler capsule designs.

[Spatzimaus]

The way I envision it is an "achievement" system, instead of an actual economy. That is, at the start of the game you could only make vessels with total cost of X or less, and with no one part being more expensive than Y. Every time you do something notable for the first time (i.e., get an achievement), the values of X and Y increase to give you added capability/flexibility. Get an unmanned probe into orbit (which'd just be barely possible with the starting stock parts), and your budget increases to allow for larger rockets. Get a manned capsule into orbit, and it increases again. Dock two manned capsules in orbit. Land an orbital capsule safely on land. Find each anomaly on Kerbin. Land an unmanned probe on either moon. Land a man on a moon and return. Build a space station of over 100 tons. Send an unmanned probe to each other planet or moon. Send a man to each other planet or moon. Find all other anomalies. Refine a certain amount of each resource. Make an SSTO spaceplane, and safely land it back on Kerbin. Make a spaceplane that can lift a 10-ton payload into orbit. Land a spaceplane on Laythe, Duna, or Eve, and return to Kerbin. Assemble a large interplanetary ship in orbit. Do a Grand Tour. Set up a colony on Mun, Duna, or Laythe. Crash a probe into the Sun. Have a probe escape the system entirely.

Do each of these things and your per-ship budget would increase, until pretty much any design becomes possible. In effect, this'd be analogous to a research system, since new parts would unlock each time you accomplished new goals, but without any sort of direct user control. It's possible that some specific parts could require specific achievements to unlock (like LV-Ns being unavailable until you've refined nuclear fuel for the first time, or larger manned capsules being unavailable until you've successfully used a smaller or more primitive version), which'd make it even closer to a research system. This'd be far better than an actual economy, where a failed launch costs you money, because that'd discourage the sort of random experimentation that's a hallmark of KSP.

[bsalis]

I won't go into details on what I think the tech tree should be. Lots of good ideas have already been posted.

What matters to me is that whatever is done in regards to research, that it allows the player to devise and execute a strategy on how to beat the game within the campaign mode mechanics. For example;

* Will you invest in safety to run a high reputation space program so as to secure a safe flow of public funding?

* Will you invest in dangerous heavy lifting tech to do the private sector missions that have big payoffs?

* Will you invest in tech to run a very efficient low cost space program, that makes most use of part re-use?

* Or will you focus on tech to make money out of selling precious resources that can only be mined on other planets?