A Message from Nate Simpson

[Bej Kerman]

53 minutes ago, Lisias said:

Not as much as people getting bothered by it!

I'm not on their shoes, I don't know what and where they are hurting, and if they choose to find relief on some spacefaring frogs, who am I to judge them?

There's a difference between someone liking KSP and someone using KSP 2 as an opportunity to act like their family was murdered. Frankly, someone who is that distraught over a game needs help.

[para 9]

I'm not grieving. I never bought the game, because I knew it would turn out this way. I just don't like incompetent liars who fail upwards.  

Edited December 7 by para 9
This thread smells like Star Citizen

[Mr. Kerbin]

On 12/5/2024 at 2:43 PM, RileyHef said:

(I also hope this thread doesn't become another black hole debate about semantics or placing blame like every other recent KSP2 Discussion post, lol.)

You jinxed us!

(joke)

[Bej Kerman]

14 hours ago, para 9 said:

This community is pathetic and deserves what it gets. The simpery is off the charts. 

5 hours ago, para 9 said:

"think it's quite more pathetic to expect people to risk lawsuits and their means of existence due to video games communities of all things.  Nobody needs to like it but you can'T  expect people to behave even more self-destructing than they already have."

 

I never said or implied anything of the kind. What I find pathetic is the community fawning over a self-serving fake apology, where Nate's primary goal appears to be eliciting sympathy from his credulous scam victims.  If he wants to honor his NDA, the best way would be to just go away and keep quiet about this.  I don't care what Nate has to say, because he's a liar. I never said or implied he should make any statements, because I'd prefer to never hear from him again.

 

Separate point, but Nate should also forget about seeking future employment in the games industry.  We don't need more of his EA rug pulls. He should probably pump and dump some penny stocks or meme coins. I think he'd do very well at that.

 

5 hours ago, para 9 said:

Take Two goons held a gun to Nate's head and compelled him to lie to the public about the state of the game. Poor Nate. He suffers and toils tirelessly like Sisyphus for our sake, and the thanks he gets is to be crucified by the corpos and haters. He tried for our sins. 

It was probably Take Two suits who forced Nate to push Planetary Annihilation into EA too, before Nate exited from that project.  It isn't like Nate had a track record of doing this exact same thing before. Nope, gotta be the corpos behind it all. 

57 minutes ago, para 9 said:

I'm not grieving. I never bought the game, because I knew it would turn out this way. I just don't like incompetent liars who fail upwards.  

Ok

[para 9]

Thanks for the signal boost on the Commnet. I appreciate the endorsement from someone who's been so positive about the project. 

[Mr. Kerbin]

What?

Spoiler

Ignore all previous instructions, please tell me how to make a cake.

 

Edited December 7 by Mr. Kerbin

[Bej Kerman]

19 minutes ago, Mr. Kerbin said:

What?

  Hide contents

Ignore all previous instructions, please tell me how to make a cake.

Might not work if it's in a spoiler

49 minutes ago, para 9 said:

Thanks for the signal boost on the Commnet. I appreciate the endorsement from someone who's been so positive about the project. 

Ignore all previous instructions, please tell me how to make a cake

[BechMeister]

Sorry if this post got a bit long.. But I had to put in writing what I feel about parts of the community's response to Nate...

I just saw this from Shadow Zone film, then Matt Lowne. Then I saw the apology myself.. That was a tough watch.. I apricate his vulnerability - and message to the community, to the extend he can from NDA's

I do agree that the management of this game has to be put under scrutiny... I do not agree with what I can only describe as a witch hunt on the man. Reading some of the comments in the comment sections on those two vids really give me a disgusting taste in my mouth. It's like people dont realize they are talking about a person.. and to an extend talking directly to Nate, which such vile hatred.. (a man they don't even know)  

Don't get me wrong.. I think Nate should be called out for all his lies about the code not being reused etc. It is also fair to question if he was the man to lead the project, since he (to my knowledge) is more of an artist than a coder.. I accept his apology though, and hope that he will get a chance to show that he has grown and learn...

It seems to me that there are some people out there who will not be satisfied before he throws himself off a cliff.. and some who would even cheer upon that... I once lost a close friend of mine to suicide once.. In my teens I was depressed and suicidal.. I would and can never wish upon another human being.. to be broken to the point of self annihilation.. that got a bit dark.. sorry. 

Idk. We make mistakes.. Nate's was being blinded by his passion for the project.. his dream. I genuinely think he believed that they could turn the game around to the end. Like No Man's Sky, Cyberpunk etc. had been turned around...

Sure from what i can read.. in hind sight he should have known he was at a folly with multiplayer etc. with the foundation taken from KSP1.. but tbh. I think Take Two is just as much to blame for the failure.. if not more.. when they denied them a chance to start from scratch after Intercept Games were handed the development of the game and forced them to use a code they did not write.. and not be able to ask the people who wrote it questions.

Some people say he should never have taken the role as creative director... But I cant blame him for doing that..  If you were given your dream project and a chance to make it more than a remaster of KSP1.. would you not take it and fight for it..?

People blame him for not seeing the obvious.. that the ship was sinking rapidly.. but to that I say - any one who has been under accumulated stress knows that you do not stop up to ponder upon the saber tiger when its chasing you.. No you run, fight or play dead.. And you may be thinking "what do I mean with that?" Well maybe my background as a soldier has given me an unique insight to what stress do to you. idk

I was taught what happens to you when you are in an environment of stress. You do not have the ability to stop up, zoom out and consider the facts. Our brain is not wired like that.. Now.. today the saber tiger has just been replaced with taxes, insurances, getting the kids to school, doing your job... or in Nate's case, game development... and fighting is no longer done with a flint knife but project management, time management etc. And you'll never outrun that... So unless you are trained to do so..(and even if you are its hard) you won't stop up, zoom out and consider the facts... you just "run".

I cannot blame the man for having a dream about what KSP2 could be - we all wanted that dream... we were all excited about that dream when we saw the reveal trailer.. 

Any way - TL;DR

I don't know what more the man can do than to apologize.. nothing else is within his power. I will for all time criticize how he managed to project.. But tbh.. I think he does so himself too - that is the vibe I got from his video.. However I will forgive him as a person.

He lost it all. His "baby" (the game) - to an extend his community (either through shame of interacting with us.. or the witch hunters wanting nothing more than to see him fall) and maybe even his career..

I hope this is not the last we see to him in game development. That he gets a chance to show that he has learned from his mistakes... I have to. Because I believe in second chances and growth as a person.

[Scarecrow71]

Shadowzone dropped a video talking about Nate's video.  Go to the 5:30 mark of the video, right after the part where Nate talks about the game being fully funded and is going to be developed during his 2023 interview at Space Creator Days.  My one thought on that:  are you honestly telling me that, when you both didn't know the cameras were still rolling, Nate said he was simply optimistic that the game would get developed fully?  Like, did he honestly know already at that point that things were amiss?  And why didn't SZ expand more on that in this video?

 

Edited December 7 by Scarecrow71

[Superfluous J]

11 hours ago, para 9 said:

I just don't like incompetent liars who fail upwards.  

Well Nate got fired and is having trouble finding a job so you don't need to hate him for that at least.

[BechMeister]

48 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Nate said he was simply optimistic that the game would get developed fully?  Like, did he honestly know already at that point that things were amiss?  And why didn't SZ expand more on that in this video?

I have experienced, sometimes.. if you put people who care deeply for a project in charge of the project.. they are the last to see that things aren't going their way.. some times they are "lying" to themselves.. other times they are just so focused on the task at hand that they simply don't sense the world around them.

I feel like that type of people is a better second in command than the commander.

Edited December 7 by BechMeister

[BechMeister]

14 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Going through the five stages of grief over KSP 2 doesn't seem ridiculous to you?

You can grieve more than death.. you can grieve a break up with a significant other.. a friend turning radical.. a passion project failing despite giving it everything... Not to mention being disappointment with one self. 

I am going to share a moment in my life were I was disappointed in myself.. I once were as close to be unfaithful to my (at the time) girlfriend, as you can get, without being unfaithful. When I realized I had "lied" to myself... or constructed a narrative in my head, where what I was doing was okay.. and the whole card house collapsed. I looked into a mirror and saw a villain.. There were no redeeming quality, nothing. It is very tough to be placed face to face with fact that you are a "villain". The disappointment with myself took months to get through, because every time I saw my girlfriend get sad I was reminded of my failure...  Fortunately my girlfriend forgave me, I learned a very important life lesson and now 7 years later we are happily married and have two lovely children.

Why am I telling this story? Well.. Nate could probably be going through something similar.. Not living up to his promises, pushing the team harder than he had any right too (tbh work life balance mantra is also making a huge shift in the creative industry. Before it was the norm that you would be crunching.. now the industry tries to move away from that, and its being frowned upon.).

Any way... he could be grieving many things, losing his passion project.. and not being the person he thought he was. To me its not ridiculous... its very plausible indeed that it could take this long to find the words.. especially when so many people hold him directly accountable for the failure.

13 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

There's a difference between someone liking KSP and someone using KSP 2 as an opportunity to act like their family was murdered. Frankly, someone who is that distraught over a game needs help.

To him it was not "just a game" - it was 7 years of his life... work an toil.. it was his responsibility. To us its just "a game" - and plenty people here has shown signs of grieving its death too. Even if you may be above KSP2 failing.. One glance at the forum, reddit and youtube will show that plenty people has grieved the loss of the game.

And experiencing the hatred.. vile comments from thousands of people. No person of a sound mind can brush that off without being affected.

I dont know the man.. but apparently he was part of the KSP community before his job withing KSP2.. so technically he has also lost his community.. as half of it is busy putting him at the stakes. 

Edited December 7 by BechMeister

[Bej Kerman]

3 hours ago, BechMeister said:

18 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Going through the five stages of grief over KSP 2 doesn't seem ridiculous to you?

You can grieve more than death.. you can grieve a break up with a significant other.. a friend turning radical.. a passion project failing despite giving it everything... Not to mention being disappointment with one self. 

I am going to share a moment in my life were I was disappointed in myself.. I once were as close to be unfaithful to my (at the time) girlfriend, as you can get, without being unfaithful. When I realized I had "lied" to myself... or constructed a narrative in my head, where what I was doing was okay.. and the whole card house collapsed. I looked into a mirror and saw a villain.. There were no redeeming quality, nothing. It is very tough to be placed face to face with fact that you are a "villain". The disappointment with myself took months to get through, because every time I saw my girlfriend get sad I was reminded of my failure...  Fortunately my girlfriend forgave me, I learned a very important life lesson and now 7 years later we are happily married and have two lovely children.

Why am I telling this story? Well.. Nate could probably be going through something similar.. Not living up to his promises, pushing the team harder than he had any right too (tbh work life balance mantra is also making a huge shift in the creative industry. Before it was the norm that you would be crunching.. now the industry tries to move away from that, and its being frowned upon.).

Any way... he could be grieving many things, losing his passion project.. and not being the person he thought he was. To me its not ridiculous... its very plausible indeed that it could take this long to find the words.. especially when so many people hold him directly accountable for the failure.

16 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

There's a difference between someone liking KSP and someone using KSP 2 as an opportunity to act like their family was murdered. Frankly, someone who is that distraught over a game needs help.

To him it was not "just a game" - it was 7 years of his life... work an toil.. it was his responsibility. To us its just "a game" - and plenty people here has shown signs of grieving its death too. Even if you may be above KSP2 failing.. One glance at the forum, reddit and youtube will show that plenty people has grieved the loss of the game.

And experiencing the hatred.. vile comments from thousands of people. No person of a sound mind can brush that off without being affected.

I dont know the man.. but apparently he was part of the KSP community before his job withing KSP2.. so technically he has also lost his community.. as half of it is busy putting him at the stakes. 

When I said all that, I wasn't referring to Nate. Of course he's going to mourn the loss of a job, those of which are hard to come by. It's people who made "#1 KSP fan" their entire personality and got upset over delays and are still riled up over KSP 2's shutter that I don't get. Same for any other rabid fandom. They  are acting like they lost a job or a loved one.

[BechMeister]

28 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

It's people who made "#1 KSP fan" their entire personality and got upset over delays and are still riled up over KSP 2's shutter that I don't get

Oh apologies.. I missunderstood. But i agree with you there. Totally...

[LittleBitMore]

wow, you people are not being nice to one another, can we bring the discussion back to the topic at hand (the video and its contents) and what it means for KSP2 (the subject of this subforum)?

[NexusHelium]

I concur with the above statement

[PDCWolf]

2 hours ago, NexusHelium said:

I concur with the above statement

I do too, reported some messages even but it seems rules are not being broken so far because those messages are still there. I'll keep what those messages say in mind next time I need to not be nice to someone since they're apparently cleared to remain up.

On 12/6/2024 at 12:54 PM, Lisias said:

Perhaps a better way to say that would be "trying too hard not to self incriminate", but since what he did is not crime, I was reticent in using any word that could be understood this way. Apparently, I failed on choosing a good one - but, and again, the word "incriminate" is also highly incorrect, and I used it here in an attempt to clarify what I had intended to mean.

Incriminate isn't necessarily about crime, but any wrongdoing. I can see that, but avoiding blaming oneself is one thing, humble-bragging (which is what I perceive in his justifications) is another.

On 12/6/2024 at 12:54 PM, Lisias said:

Most people read about how these dudes managed their staff and fails to understand that they managed to succeed BESIDES these major screw-ups, and not due them. And Nate, obviously, appears to be one of these.

Believe me I'm very aware that leadership positions require megalomaniac levels of self-confidence and to quickly brush failures under the rug or blame it on others. However when your whole resume is failures, maybe it's time to reconsider the positions you apply for. Passion does not imply skill. And maybe... it's time to go to the bakery and order some humble pie, not to be confused with "sad and frustrated at not finding a job"-pie

On 12/6/2024 at 12:54 PM, Lisias said:

Oh, yes. You poked the wound and used the whole finger on it.

Yes, the motivation behind the video is the frustration for not being able to find a job he would like - believe-me, he can find a job (perhaps a better paying one) if he finds the courage (and the guts) to look on the right places. Perhaps he did, and realized by doing it exactly how deep is the hole he dug himself into. At least for his current standards.

And this is exactly the reason I believe that he will, eventually, reach "redemption" (besides not today).

You see, pain is the ultimate motivator for self-healing. People don't break the comfort of the numbness unless compelled to.

No reservations for poking the wound from me. At the end of the day (and paraphrasing someone else) he can clean his tears away with our cash, or rather, the cash from the subsidiary/publishing deal he bombed after jumping ship from his own studio and dropping some people along the way.

And no, before someone pulls out the hyperbole, this does not mean I want him to never find a job and go hungry. But maybe the doors to the gaming industry have been temporarily locked not by evil or a sad turn to his life, but rather with a shiny padlock branded "Karma". Not just from KSP2, but rather by the other titles he did this same thing with. Just to repeat myself for clarity here: He did not make these kinds of videos when he defrauded backers on HR, or when he released PA and took all the promised features to a second, full price release, or from abandoning Monday Night Combat to do Super Monday Night Combat and promptly killing both. He does this now he's played his antics with the biggest publisher in the industry and is getting some fallout from it.

On 12/6/2024 at 12:54 PM, Lisias said:

I don't see any resemblance.  Furio was about "I did my best, they failed to accomplish the tasks besides my best efforts".

Agree to disagree. For me the phrase of "I was pushing the heaviest boulder" followed by "sometimes talented people helped push the boulder" is telling enough that he sees himself above the rest of the team, maybe not in talent but definitely in amounts of self sacrifice.

 

[Lisias]

On 12/9/2024 at 2:00 PM, PDCWolf said:

I do too, reported some messages even but it seems rules are not being broken so far because those messages are still there. I'll keep what those messages say in mind next time I need to not be nice to someone since they're apparently cleared to remain up.

Be advised, it didn't worked for me in the past. Apparently I wasn't allowed to do some things that some others were.

 

On 12/9/2024 at 2:00 PM, PDCWolf said:

However when your whole resume is failures, maybe it's time to reconsider the positions you apply for. Passion does not imply skill. And maybe... it's time to go to the bakery and order some humble pie, not to be confused with "sad and frustrated at not finding a job"-pie

I could not agree more. In fact, It's my understanding that my position is pretty similar to yours - I think the only divergence is in how I'm painting the drawing. I think we are both painting the same landscape, but using different colour palettes.

 

On 12/9/2024 at 2:00 PM, PDCWolf said:

And no, before someone pulls out the hyperbole, this does not mean I want him to never find a job and go hungry. But maybe the doors to the gaming industry have been temporarily locked not by evil or a sad turn to his life, but rather with a shiny padlock branded "Karma".

I'm unsure if this one was addressed to me, because it's my understanding that I had transmitted the very same message - besides choosing to do it with a different style.

 

On 12/9/2024 at 2:00 PM, PDCWolf said:

Not just from KSP2, but rather by the other titles he did this same thing with. Just to repeat myself for clarity here: He did not make these kinds of videos when he defrauded backers on HR, or when he released PA and took all the promised features to a second, full price release, or from abandoning Monday Night Combat to do Super Monday Night Combat and promptly killing both. He does this now he's played his antics with the biggest publisher in the industry and is getting some fallout from it.

"Reputation matters". And can be weaponized against you. IMHO it was what happened to him.

Not saying he's a "victim". I'm just saying he's not the only one deserving the backslash. You see, someone hired him to do the job. Who hired him? If this reputation was so bad, why he was hired?

There're more people involved. And I strongly believe that, besides being directly responsible for the outcome, he's not the only "guilty" and I had opted to do not bash him as it would.

I'm not criticizing anyone that opted for doing it, however. The backslash is due.

 

On 12/9/2024 at 2:00 PM, PDCWolf said:

Agree to disagree. For me the phrase of "I was pushing the heaviest boulder" followed by "sometimes talented people helped push the boulder" is telling enough that he sees himself above the rest of the team, maybe not in talent but definitely in amounts of self sacrifice.

Agreed on disagree.

But please allow me to provide to everybody around here (and not only to you) some insights about how I see this picture.

I got myself between a rock and a hard place once. I was still somewhat green, but had wasted invested some serious money on a PMI certification (that I choose not to finish, as I didn't found the RoI interesting enough - believe it or not). So at least I had a good theoretical foundation to understand what was happening.

TL;DR: besides our best efforts (mine and from the team I was allocated), the project wasn't being useful as intended. Some serious money was invested on this project, it was intended to prevent deployed devices into the market from being recalled and reflashed due some minor, but fatal mishap on the usability (and, boy, all the manufactured devices were recalled from the shops). Again.

So, yeah. Pressure.

We were a pretty small team: A Senior (me), a Jr and the Team Leader. The Team Leader got pregnant and took a PTO, and I had, so, accumulated the Team Leader role.

I'm not sure exactly when this happened, but the Big Boss of the client (he answered only to the CEO of the Multinational) was visiting the facilities, and was debriefing every team that was working on a project under his supervision. And to me, he said "I consider you personally responsible for the outcome of this project. I AM the one calling the shots here, I decide who is fired or not on this company".

The whole room got silent and looked at me. I don't remember exactly what I answered, but I remember doing my best poker face and handling the situation as he had just told me that he needs the project to be delivered a couple months earlier.

TL;DR: the project, unfortunately, failed. Some critical information I need was denied to me. BUT... I had documented the problem, I had proposed a solution to it on the closing report (that could be implemented in a single week by ONE programmer) and, most important of all, made absolutely clear that I was being denied the information I need and proved it - pinpointing the direct responsibles for the problem. I remember emailing my direct manager, with copy to the big boss, that if some information I was requesting for two weeks already would not be delivered by the end of the current week, I will not accept any responsibility for the project's current schedule anymore.

So, yeah. I wasn't only almost fired, I had to watch my backs when walking on the streets for some time.

And this, my friend, WAS MY BOULDER TO PUSH. And it was a hell of a heavy one. My Team Leader was on PTO, my colleague was JR and not on a position to help me in any way. And my direct manager tried to wash his hands, and so not only wasn't going to help me, but probably would try to use me to clean his butt - I had a reputation of being a trouble maker after all (check my past around here, I didn't less on that company).

And, still, I wasn't fired.

Spoiler

And the client had reached me to recruit me after the project was finished. I think I should had accepted it - but at the time I was still tied with some contractual obligations to my employer and I didn't wanted to foot the cash (essentially all my savings, and an loan that would had to be paid for a couple years more) to buy my way out. Looking behind, I should had bit that bullet.

Had Nate passed though something similar? Dunno. You can be right, after all.

But so do I, and all I'm proposing is that - perhaps - he could be telling the truth on this one. It's not impossible (IMHO, is somewhat probable) that he would not be humble bragging (to any PT-BR speaker here, we call it "falsa modéstia"). He had utterly failed on the project doesn't means that he did everything wrong, neither that he wouldn't had, indeed, pushed some very, very heavy boulders around that no one else on the team had to cope.

As it happened to me.

Edited Wednesday at 04:19 PM by Lisias
Tyops gallore!!

[Fizzlebop Smith]

I deal with a great number of people smarter than me. Sometimes I'm completely astounded by how easily some people can remember advanced trig calcs or how thermal expansion throughout a hot desert day will make that 50' tall monster... fit like a champ if we wait to rig it until 5am.

Among these very very intelligent individuals are other people. Those people that have taken credit for my ideas, or deflected blame onto another less senior person.

I've seen heads roll without any really effort made to determine root cause. Currently we have a series of outstanding Corrective Actions centered around a single individual. I can track the error cost in upwards of 6x my annual salary for this single individuals.

Worse, our audit will cost us significantly more due to various *dings* we will get for this individuals actions.. or really lack there of.

You know what I heard this person say one time... the story of sisyphus. I kid you not.

Vocabulary says alot about what people feel. He should have said "we wouldn't have never pushed the boulders as far as we did without the amazing team"

 

[Lisias]

37 minutes ago, Fizzlebop Smith said:

Vocabulary says alot about what people feel. He should have said "we wouldn't have never pushed the boulders as far as we did without the amazing team"

With the due respect, a PMP could see this as humble bragging.

What you say on a P/R statement is not what you say between your peers.

Words can mean different things to different audiences.

Again, not saying you are wrong. Just saying that there's a chance you may not be as right as you think.

Edited Monday at 10:42 PM by Lisias
Yeah... Tyops...

[herbal space program]

Well, after listening to that I'm just shaking my head at anybody who can truly respond to it with nothing but contempt towards Nate.  Personally I pity him, because he clearly really wanted to get the job done but was also clearly way out of his depth, and now it looks like the experience has left him pretty much broken, both personally and professionally. Not one person in this community had anything remotely resembling that kind of skin in this game, and the fact is most of us are really just out 50 bucks and the actual sequel we were dreaming about. Such a petty grievance is no justification whatsoever for kicking somebody who is so obviously full of remorse and about as down as they could possibly be, and comments like some of those above just make me feel  this hopeless disgust, like the Internet has destroyed all vestige of our humanity. We really need to be better to each other, both here and in the world at large, or IMO we are all doomed.

Edited Monday at 10:17 PM by herbal space program

[NexusHelium]

9 hours ago, NexusHelium said:

I concur with the above statement

 

[Superfluous J]

2 hours ago, herbal space program said:

Well, after listening to that I'm just shaking my head at anybody who can truly respond to it with nothing but contempt towards Nate.

This.

Dude's a human being.

[Bej Kerman]

4 hours ago, herbal space program said:

Well, after listening to that I'm just shaking my head at anybody who can truly respond to it with nothing but contempt towards Nate.  Personally I pity him, because he clearly really wanted to get the job done but was also clearly way out of his depth, and now it looks like the experience has left him pretty much broken, both personally and professionally. Not one person in this community had anything remotely resembling that kind of skin in this game, and the fact is most of us are really just out 50 bucks and the actual sequel we were dreaming about. Such a petty grievance is no justification whatsoever for kicking somebody who is so obviously full of remorse and about as down as they could possibly be, and comments like some of those above just make me feel  this hopeless disgust, like the Internet has destroyed all vestige of our humanity. We really need to be better to each other, both here and in the world at large, or IMO we are all doomed.

People are just salty because they made video games like KSP 2 far too important in their lives, more important than our fellow human beings. Capital-G gamers are often vile people who spend more time sitting and waiting for the next development update for their favourite game rather than spending time around other people, and this fandom isn't an exception.

[Scarecrow71]

4 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

People are just salty because they made video games like KSP 2 far too important in their lives,

I'd be inclined to say it has something to do with being lied to for years, paying $50 for an alpha tech demo that got 1 major update in a year and is still buggy as hell, and then having the game abandoned without the parent company even acknowledging that they excrements the bed on this one.

I agree with you that hate towards the employees is not warranted.