A Message from Nate Simpson

[Fizzlebop Smith]

6 hours ago, Lisias said:

With the due respect, a PMP could see this as humble bragging.

What you say on a P/R statement is not what you say between your peers.

Words can mean different things to different audiences.

Again, not saying you are wrong. Just saying that there's a chance you may not be as right as you think.

No doubt, and I honestly wonder how much of that was related to aspects outside of development. 

How much of the boulder was inability to manage a team the way he wanted, or hire replacements or being hamstringed by (intentional) corporate beauracracy. 

I've seen people crumble whem handed a crap sandwich. A hollow jaded look as they remain overwhelmed every moment of the day. 

There is a practice to dump excessive losses i to an asset you plan to dump. 

Edited Tuesday at 04:16 AM by Fizzlebop Smith

[NexusHelium]

1 hour ago, Scarecrow71 said:

I'd be inclined to say it has something to do with being lied to for years, paying $50 for an alpha tech demo that got 1 major update in a year and is still buggy as hell, and then having the game abandoned without the parent company even acknowledging that they excrements the bed on this one.

I mean two things can be true at once. People can think they got scammed (I personally was happy with the game since day one so I can't really relate to the feeling) and be understandably angry while also making a far greater deal out of it then it needs to be. People on the internet tend (not always but it's not like it's uncommon or anything) to take whatever their feeling and push it to the absolute extreme just for the sake of taking it out on someone else or venting. But point is I agree with both of you. I think people are mad at the game, but I also think they are ridiculously overreacting about everything and are taking that to shaming and putting down someone else, which is almost never okay in any scenario.

And of course I agree that none of the hate towards the employees and people that worked on the game is justified. I personally think people who don't like the game should just drop the meaningless grudges and get on with their lives, but I digress 

[Jacke]

On 12/9/2024 at 5:00 PM, PDCWolf said:

Believe me I'm very aware that leadership positions require megalomaniac levels of self-confidence and to quickly brush failures under the rug or blame it on others.

This almost the complete antithesis of true leadership.  Which is learned and practiced and through failure and success and honest appraisal, both by mentors and one self, improves.  Though I often wonder what is wanted in corporate apparatchiks isn't true leadership.

 

On 12/9/2024 at 5:00 PM, PDCWolf said:

However when your whole resume is failures, maybe it's time to reconsider the positions you apply for. Passion does not imply skill. And maybe... it's time to go to the bakery and order some humble pie, not to be confused with "sad and frustrated at not finding a job"-pie

This is spot on.

[herbal space program]

On 12/9/2024 at 8:24 PM, NexusHelium said:

I personally was happy with the game since day one so I can't really relate to the feeling

I sure can't say I was happy with the game from day one. The number and severity of the bugs made it pretty much unplayable for anything but the simplest missions.  But by the time they pulled the plug, I feel like that aspect had really improved a lot, and the game was actually quite playable.   Performance of course was still pretty kruffty,  but for me that was mitigated by the fairly beefy rig I was playing it on. All that was really missing for me was some kind of fun new content to keep it interesting. Perhaps that was never going to happen due to fundamental flaws in the game engine tanking performance to the point where colonies, etc. could never be playable.  But if that was not the case, then it really seems to me like they were 90% of the way to the finish line when they gave up, which is a real shame.

Edited yesterday at 03:59 PM by herbal space program

[Serenity]

Took over a franchise so many people loved, oversold it, overpromised and yes now ofcourse it will be a burden.

Now we left with no game so what does any words even mean, there is no excuse when you lie to your fans and who knows what else

to get the project going.I feel bad about what he is going through but i also feel bad about what all the fans of ksp had to go through.

Loss all around, better luck next time.

[Mr. Kerbin]

15 minutes ago, Serenity said:

Now we left with no game

You heard of KSA?

[Lisias]

34 minutes ago, Mr. Kerbin said:

You heard of KSA?

Had you heard of Star Paws? Apparently is going to deliver everything KSA promised, but surely will be delivered first (2025 June, I think). Developed on Unreal Engine 5, I expect some serious graphical candies for the visual oriented gamers.

In a way or another, the @Serenity statement still holds. Right now, we are left without a (working) game.

 

[Fizzlebop Smith]

1 hour ago, Mr. Kerbin said:

You heard of KSA?

Send me a link I'm anxious to play.

[Mr. Kerbin]

3 minutes ago, Fizzlebop Smith said:

Send me a link I'm anxious to play.

(do I smell s a r c a s m?)

47 minutes ago, Lisias said:

Had you heard of Star Paws? Apparently is going to deliver everything KSA promised, but surely will be delivered first (2025 June, I think). Developed on Unreal Engine 5, I expect some serious graphical candies for the visual oriented gamers.

In a way or another, the @Serenity statement still holds. Right now, we are left without a (working) game.

 

ye but that's not mac

and

I meant that there was A game.

that's ailve (sort of)

 

[Vanamonde]

Please stick to the subject of the thread. 

[Bej Kerman]

14 hours ago, Lisias said:

Had you heard of Star Paws? Apparently is going to deliver everything KSA promised

Like a bespoke engine designed to handle terrain and space flight in a real scale system, physics LOD, a non-raster skybox, procedural parts and subparts, seamless vessel switching, KSP 1/2 veterans on the team, and so on? Ehhh, I wouldn't bet on it.

Looking at its trailers, it just looks like a generic KSP clone a la Spaceflight Simulator / JNO, made in Unreal because that's where all the beginner tutorials are, by a studio that hasn't released anything before. I highly doubt Star Paws is going to be the first to reach KSA's goal of having infinitely more fidelity than KSP and its knockoffs - even before Rocketwerkz, a proven studio with talent and provided wisdom by KSP 1/2 development veterans, can produce a free demo of its BRUTAL framework.

[Lisias]

17 hours ago, Lisias said:

In a way or another, the @Serenity statement still holds. Right now, we are left without a (working) game.

I utterly failed on converging the discussion back to the thread's subject. So I'm going straight to the point, in the hopes of preventing this thread from being derailed (again) on an useless fight about games that are not available yet and from all we have at this moment are, hopefully coincidently, promises and tech demos published on YouTube.

Ones of the most critical reasons Nate is getting his sorry cheeks mercilessly bashed by everybody is EXACTLY due people feeling hopeless on their aspirations of getting a de facto (since a rightful one is out of the menu at this moment) sequel for a well beloved game.

The point is that the sooner such sequel goes to the market, the better for Nate, as people will shift their focus to the newcomer's merits - forgetting KSP2 in the mean time.

The technology prowess of such spiritual sequel is, frankly, not important because its role on this ordeal (the message from Nate, again the subject of this thread) will be essentially to fulfill a need Nate left unsatisfied.

And, as a matter or fact, if the next spiritual sequel ends up flopping by a reason or another it will benefit Nate on the long run, as he will be vindicated a bit - it would not be an easy task after all.

Kraken forbids this from happening however (sorry, Nate), I want both of them (Star Paws and KSA) to succeed from all my heart, so people can choose the game style that best fulfill their expectations, removing from the games the burden of having to satisfy conflicting requirements.

One size doesn't fits all.

Edited 10 hours ago by Lisias
Hit "Save" too soon.

[boriz]

'Beta tester' used to be a job, for which you were paid, and no studio in it's right mind would release something incomplete, lest it reflect badly on their reputation. *cough...cyberturd 2077... cough*

 

We, as gamers and as customers are all suffering from the new paradigm of 'use the customer as the beta tester'. Studios call it early access, but really it's just a cynical cash grab. Where before, they had to pay beta testers, now the beta testers pay them. It's madness, and things like this KSP2 debacle, and others were always inevitable. It will happen again and again until someone finally says 'hey, that emperor has no clothes!'.

 

Anyone who hands over AAA cash for an incomplete game and a promise is gambling. Complaining about it later, after you lost your bet is foolish.

 

Now the gaming industry is taking an even darker turn with 'gaming as a service', for which you need to be online, and/or pay a monthly fee. It's exploitation of a captive market, and they can only get away with it if gamers keep sucking it up and making this behavior profitable.

 

Nate, and the KSP2 devs are also victims. The blame needs to point upwards. Producer level and above. The ones that still have their jobs and a Lamborghini too. The very people the NDA is there to protect. You think they care about any vitriol on internet forums while enjoying boat drinks in the Caribbean ?

 

Spoiler

https://i.imgur.com/apsDa5K.jpeg

 

[Bej Kerman]

1 hour ago, boriz said:

Nate, and the KSP2 devs are also victims. The blame needs to point upwards. Producer level and above. The ones that still have their jobs and a Lamborghini too. The very people the NDA is there to protect. You think they care about any vitriol on internet forums while enjoying boat drinks in the Caribbean ?

I agree. People here though just want a face to latch onto and blame all their problems on in lieu of therapy.

[PDCWolf]

20 hours ago, Lisias said:

Had you heard of Star Paws?

Spoiler

Unless you have some new info for me, I can't look at that game and not smell a UE5 asset flip. The store page only promises you'll be able to build rockets, fly to space, and multiplayer.

20 hours ago, Lisias said:

In a way or another, the @Serenity statement still holds. Right now, we are left without a (working) game.

More than that. This circus of incapable people being selected to develop the incorrect game for the franchise, which didn't even make it past the second gate, has left us with no franchise. As much as people want to cry about some boogeyman managers, their vision was still mediocre, and their capacity to execute was shown to be worse than mediocre. That people were happy with the heap of unsalvageable garbage they released, of which junior devs would rather run away (and turn the studio into a revolving door) rather than try their hand at developing, is honestly a big part of the reason why the gaming industry is where it is: Greed by publishers is met with conformism from consumers.

1 hour ago, boriz said:

Nate, and the KSP2 devs are also victims. The blame needs to point upwards. Producer level and above. The ones that still have their jobs and a Lamborghini too. The very people the NDA is there to protect. You think they care about any vitriol on internet forums while enjoying boat drinks in the Caribbean ?

Actually... the middle and upper managers from IG were kicked out, not even our Nate here managed to secure a lifeboat spot at PD, and then PD was put up for sale too, with layoffs that we know reached much more than IG and Roll7.

Should've they fired people further up? maybe. Very probably actually. But Nate here isn't the only one to or the highest up have gotten the boot over this mess.

Edited 6 hours ago by PDCWolf

[Lisias]

1 hour ago, boriz said:

'Beta tester' used to be a job, for which you were paid, and no studio in it's right mind would release something incomplete, lest it reflect badly on their reputation. *cough...cyberturd 2077... cough*

We, as gamers and as customers are all suffering from the new paradigm of 'use the customer as the beta tester'.

Blame Netscape for that. They were one of the first (if not the first, I don't recall exactly) companies to do that with a product, Netscape Navigator.

However... Navigator was free of charge, and Netscape realized (and coped with) the fact that they wouldn't be saving money with the stunt, in fact they would spending a bit more this way because they still needed professional beta testers, and some of them had to manage the influx of bug reports made by non technical people.

What they did improved, and improved a lot, was the exposition of the product - they were able to diagnose interactions with exotic hardware and software combinations that only Microsoft were able to match, but paying way more.

Make no mistake, however. Using your user-base as testers is still cumbersome, laborious and even expensive sometimes. It's not a cheap way to save money on QaS.  Ask Netscape about.

 

2 hours ago, boriz said:

Now the gaming industry is taking an even darker turn with 'gaming as a service', for which you need to be online, and/or pay a monthly fee. It's exploitation of a captive market, and they can only get away with it if gamers keep sucking it up and making this behavior profitable.

A lot of the user base are kids and teenagers, playing games with little to no supervision of their parents. They are easy prey.

Heck, there's are discussions about laws to forbid gambling advertising to kids on my country. HECK, HECK, HECK. Gambling is already a shady practice, and still our legislative is on need to promote laws to ban gambling from targeting kids because they are injecting gambling on games meant for kids!! DAMN.

 

47 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

Should've they fired people further up? maybe. Very probably actually. But Nate here isn't the only one to have gotten the boot over this mess.

I wonder how they are managing/had managed to secure new jobs after getting the boot.

I would be surprised, however, if any of them had too much trouble on it.

[Scarecrow71]

7 hours ago, Lisias said:

Ones of the most critical reasons Nate is getting his sorry cheeks mercilessly bashed by everybody is EXACTLY due people feeling hopeless on their aspirations of getting a de facto (since a rightful one is out of the menu at this moment) sequel for a well beloved game.

I disagree...to a point.  People do feel hopeless about getting a sequel to a beloved game.  But that isn't a critical reason why Nate is getting his sorry behind thwapped all day long.  For that, you need only look directly at his last post before we were informed of the coming layoffs, and then his complete silence thereafter.  NDA or not, the least he could have done was come in at the time and say "Hey, things didn't work out like we wanted, we're sorry".  But nope, he continued to hide until he thought it was safe to poke his head out again.

On top of that, people are steamed about being lied to for years, then getting an alpha tech demo that should have never been released AT THE COST OF A FULL FEATURE GAME.  With only a singular major update in a year, and it's still buggy as all get-out.  I think that's why people are primarily miffed.

7 hours ago, Lisias said:

The point is that the sooner such sequel goes to the market, the better for Nate, as people will shift their focus to the newcomer's merits - forgetting KSP2 in the mean time.

I doubt that.  Highly.  People aren't going to simply forget what happened here simply because another studio produces a similar game.  Even a spiritual successor won't alleviate or make people forget what went down.

7 hours ago, Lisias said:

The technology prowess of such spiritual sequel is, frankly, not important because its role on this ordeal (the message from Nate, again the subject of this thread) will be essentially to fulfill a need Nate left unsatisfied.

You cannot possibly be serious here.  The technology used in KSP2 has been ridiculed and gone over with varying opinions and deep-dives since release, and everyone pretty much agrees that it's a steaming pile.  The technology used in any game that might even come close to being a spiritual successor is going to have to pass muster with this community or you may as well not even bother marketing to us.

7 hours ago, Lisias said:

And, as a matter or fact, if the next spiritual sequel ends up flopping by a reason or another it will benefit Nate on the long run, as he will be vindicated a bit - it would not be an easy task after all.

Past failures by one studio do not get a free pass if a future, unrelated studio fails.  That'd be like saying you failed at something, people hated you, then I failed at the same task, so now they are forgiving.  Not how it works.  Your failures are yours alone, and my future successes or failures are not indicative of whether or not you should be given a pass.

5 hours ago, boriz said:

Anyone who hands over AAA cash for an incomplete game and a promise is gambling. Complaining about it later, after you lost your bet is foolish.

True that.

5 hours ago, boriz said:

Now the gaming industry is taking an even darker turn with 'gaming as a service', for which you need to be online, and/or pay a monthly fee. It's exploitation of a captive market, and they can only get away with it if gamers keep sucking it up and making this behavior profitable.

I blame Madden.  They are the leading sports simulation game, and quite possibly the most popular game regardless of genre.  I just watched "It's In The Game" on Prime, and the last episode showed what they went through at launch with the online servers.  Thousands of people, playing millions of games, in one day of launch.  Because Madden went that direction.  And we will see it with the next iteration of GTA, and probably every game coming from this point on.  I hate multiplayer; I despise having to go online to play a game.  One of the reasons I never got 100% in Watch_Dogs was because you had to go online to get specific achievements and complete specific objectives.  I said "forget that" and got rid of the game.  I know I am a very small minority, but some of us don't like having to do that.

5 hours ago, boriz said:

Nate, and the KSP2 devs are also victims. The blame needs to point upwards. Producer level and above. The ones that still have their jobs and a Lamborghini too. The very people the NDA is there to protect. You think they care about any vitriol on internet forums while enjoying boat drinks in the Caribbean ?

To your point about Nate and the devs being victims:  we forget this.  While they are to blame for what they did/did not produce, they were also at the mercy of the higher-ups who decided budget and time constraints.

To your second point about the higher-ups not caring:  Nothing we can do other than complain.  Tag them on X/Insta/Snap.  Will they see the comments or care?  Probably not.  But other gamers might, and maybe you might sway their opinions.  Not that it's worth much, but every snowball starts as a snowflake.

4 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

People here though just want a face to latch onto and blame all their problems on in lieu of therapy.

And still others want to be negative about everything that happens, even when they agree about the stuff they are complaining about.  Remember that not everybody needs therapy just because they aren't happy.

3 hours ago, Lisias said:

A lot of the user base are kids and teenagers, playing games with little to no supervision of their parents. They are easy prey.

Source?  Do you have statistics to back this claim up?  If you are talking about a specific country, please make sure to indicate that, because what happens in one area may not be indicative of what happens everywhere.

[Lisias]

Moved to another thread to avoid derailing this one.