Laythe Plane (now with Flight Data questions)

[Brotoro]

So, I built my first airplane. I'd like to send it along with my Laythe expedition so they can explore more than one island in some detail. I can fly the thing fairly well...it lifts off quickly and I'm able to land it more or less where I want.

You may have noticed the batteries and solar cells on top, and it has two rover wheels on the front. This is because I'd like it to also function as a rover (since driving around the other islands once I get there will allow for more detailed exploration that just buzzing along at low altitude, and I figure roving is safer than repeated take-offs and landings.

To become a rover, I retract the front landing gear only, which lowers the two rover wheels to ground level, and then the plane can drive around on electric power. Seems to handle and corner well at 22 m/s with its wide spacing of its rear landing gear (which are used in rover mode). The plane masses about 7 tons fully fueled.

So I have questions for you plane experts (since I am certainly not a plane expert):

Is this design completely goofy for Laythe? Are there any special considerations to take into account when flying around on Laythe?

Is a TurboJet the best engine for Laythe, or would a standard jet engine be better? Are the two radial air scoops sufficient for this ship at Laythe air pressures?

How does one typically mount the avionics package? It looks like something that should go on the front, but there didn't seem to be a way to do that, so I mounted it in the vertical tail (with a cubic strut and clipping on).

This isn't meant to be a spaceplane, but I will need to drop it into Laythe from orbit. Will I need to add RCS to control it during entry, or will the cockpit torque be sufficient to keep it pointed prograde on into the atmosphere to the point where aerodynamic surfaces can control it?

Can I add a probe body to fly the plane? Does it need to be oriented in a certain direction or placed in a certain location in order for the Avionics package to play well with it?

Thank you for your input.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Brotoro

[NannerManCan]

Well usually people use the other 1 man plane cockpit with a flat front so you can fit the avionics on the front

[ROFLCopter64bit]

That airplane... is better than anything I can make. You sir, are a rocket god.

[SalmonellaDingDong]

Pod torque is fine for laythe entry. Your design is ready to go. Avionics mounting doesn't matter, scoops are enough, turbojet engine is great everywhere.

Heres a small plane I sent there:

[CalculusWarrior]

I'm hardly an authority on planes, but I'll give it a shot:

As far as I know, Laythe's atmosphere is only slightly less dense than Kerbin's, so your jets should work fine. I believe that makes their efficiency slightly lower too, so don't expect to get as much mileage out of it.

A turbojet seems fine to me, I don't think the game makes too much distinction between jets and turbojets at the moment, it's just that turbojets give more thrust at higher altitudes.

The avionics package is quite a tricky beast to place. For the MK1 cockpit, you do have to think up imaginative places to put it down, or else switch to standard ASAS.

The plane looks like it should be fine for reentry, but if you're unsure, I recommend trying out Hyperedit to 'simulate' a drop from Laythe orbit. Or else just slap a rocket on it and drop it from LKO; like I said, the atmospheres are pretty similar.

Lastly, unless you plan to drop off your Kerbal on Laythe and fly away, you shouldn't need a probe body. The avionics is just like the ASAS module: you can place it anywhere in particular in any orientation.

I love the rover/plane idea, by the way! Happy flying!

Edit: ...aaaand I got ninja'd.

[ROFLCopter64bit]

.craft. Please, I am begging you.

[Brotoro]

.craft. Please, I am begging you.

OK, but remember, it's still experimental. I only just now remembered to put on a ladder for the pilot (it requires a little jog around the canard with the "a" and "d" keys while climbing).

BirdDog1.craft

[ROFLCopter64bit]

OK, but remember, it's still experimental. I only just now remembered to put on a ladder for the pilot (it requires a little jog around the canard with the "a" and "d" keys while climbing).

BirdDog1.craft

Yay! Now I can modify this for my Eve lander/launcher!

[Brotoro]

I'm hardly an authority on planes, but I'll give it a shot:

...Lastly, unless you plan to drop off your Kerbal on Laythe and fly away, you shouldn't need a probe body...

The kerbals will be riding to Laythe in the spacious accommodations of what will become the Laythe Space Station. So I was going to send the plane along separately and land it unmanned by the base they will set up on the surface (the base and rover will get sent and dropped as a separate ship). Then one of the hotshot pilots can get on board and do some exploring.

Since this plane only masses 7 tons (the the interplanetary nuclear tugs should be able to handle 21 ton payloads), I'll probably try to design a refueling station that can be taken along on the same tug and dropped onto the base area by parachute. I think I'll have the refueling station have a docking port out on the end of an arm, with the port pointing downward. The plane can drive under the arm in rover mode, gets its port lined up, the lower its nose gear to prop the plane up to make contact between the ports. Experimenting now...

[Brotoro]

Yay! Now I can modify this for my Eve lander/launcher!

Eve has no oxygen in its atmosphere, as I'm sure you know, so you'll want to replace the jet engine with an aerospike, and use normal tanks with fuel and oxidizer.

[ROFLCopter64bit]

Eve has no oxygen in its atmosphere, as I'm sure you know, so you'll want to replace the jet engine with an aerospike, and use normal tanks with fuel and oxidizer.

That's what I planned to do, but I'm going to do extra stuff to it as well.

[SalmonellaDingDong]

Kethane Jets work great on Eve as well.

[zarakon]

I would say get rid of those scoop air intakes and use ram intakes instead. They will let you fly much higher/faster/farther, especially on Laythe where the air is thinner and there are big distances between islands

[Brotoro]

OK, the refueling station works great. Drive under the port (the magnetic attraction even tries to help line it up), and ten extend the nose gear to lift the BirdDog off of its rover wheels. Click! I think I'll put ports out on four arms so that if the refueling station is not on level ground, the plane can still hopefully find a port that is at the right height.

[Brotoro]

I would say get rid of those scoop air intakes and use ram intakes instead. They will let you fly much higher/faster/farther, especially on Laythe where the air is thinner and there are big distances between islands

What is the best way to mount the ram intakes on such a plane? Cubic strut angle brackets on the tops of the wings (or the fuselage where the scoops are) and mount the ram intakes on there? I initially had some of those connected to cubic struts in the wings (with the ram intakes clipping through the wings), but the scoops allowed be not to worry about the ground clearance of the ram intakes (but if I can mount them higher, that won't be an issue).

[ROFLCopter64bit]

What is the best way to mount the ram intakes on such a plane? Cubic strut angle brackets on the tops of the wings (or the fuselage where the scoops are) and mount the ram intakes on there? I initially had some of those connected to cubic struts in the wings (with the ram intakes clipping through the wings), but the scoops allowed be not to worry about the ground clearance of the ram intakes (but if I can mount them higher, that won't be an issue).

Radial fuel tanks, and the ram intakes on the front of the fueltanks.

[zarakon]

Here's how I like to do it:

First, allow part clipping (ctrl+alt+shift+F12). It can be done without this, but it makes it easier

Start by building one in an easy spot:

Move it down to the sides, enabling mirror mode:

Add nosecones behind if you want it to look nicer

[SalmonellaDingDong]

Never thought about putting nosecones on the back, good idea.

[Brotoro]

Indeed. The nose cone on the back makes it look cool. I suppose in the current game it actually ADDS weight and drag, but it certainly cuts down on the ugliness drag, which is always important.

[SalmonellaDingDong]

Install FAR. Then they reduce drag like they should. It makes the air physics a lot better.

[Brotoro]

I took the plane on a test flight that used all but 0.68 liters of its 300 liters fuel supply...I wanted a little left in case I needed a bit of thrust during landing.

Flight time: 40 minutes 32 seconds.

Total distance travelled: 2,165,528 meters (that about 69% of the circumference of Laythe. I think I'll get to my target islands and back ).

Highest altitude: 25,917 meters (I had to see where it would flame out. It behaved well during flameout. Having only one jet engine is handy).

Highest speed: 1,496 m/s (Almost 1.5 km/sec? Yeow! No wonder you guys can get to space using planes.).

I flew 45-degrees from KSC up to the polar region, circled the perimeter of the ice cap, and then headed south toward the Great Desert (didn't quite make it there). Landed safely in some brown terrain.

Then, of course, since this is a rover ROVER as well as a plane, I drove around a wile looking at the native clumps of grass.

Edit: Note...This version had two ram air intakes instead of the air scoops.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Brotoro

[ROFLCopter64bit]

Then, of course, since this is a rover ROVER as well as a plane, I drove around a wile looking at the native clumps of grass.

Lol, were they interesting?

[Brotoro]

Lol, were they interesting?

I played without any ground clutter on for a long time, so ground clutter is still interesting to me.

Note: I tried adding two more fuel tanks radially to mount the Ram Air Intakes on, but the made the BirdDog chubby and it steered like a cow...and it would always crash when I tried to land it. So too much weight for that wing area, I think.

[ROFLCopter64bit]

Umm, how about you add something useful and small radially and add the ram intakes on that? I can't think of anything at the moment, KSP isn't open either.

[Splode]

Surely laythe is too hilly for the rover wheels to be safe?